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Old July 27th, 2011, 02:05 PM
Shupey Shupey is offline
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PC Nutrition First

Hi all:

New to the site and hoping you can assist me. I have been feeding my hound Wellness dog food for about a year now. I have come across PC Nutrition First. I was surprised to see the ingredients concidering it comes from a grocery store. I am definately thinking of switching since it is half the price of Wellness ($35 compared to $70) and to the untrained eye the ingredients look just as good if not better. The feeding amount is the same as Wellness as well.

NUTRITION FIRST
Chicken meal, chicken, brown rice, oatmeal, dehulled barley, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols source of vitamin e), natural chicken flavour, tomatoes, whole dried egg, herring meal, flaxseed, salmon oil (source of dha), brewers yeast, whole sweet potatoes, whole carrots, whole blueberries, whole cranberries, whole apples, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, dicalcium phosphate, sodium chloride, chicory root, choline chloride, vitamins & chelated minerals (vitamin a, vitamin d3, vitamin e, niacin, vitamin c, inositol, d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, beta carotene, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, vitamin k, biotin, vitamin b12 supplement, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulphate, iron proteinate, zinc oxide, copper proteinate, copper sulphate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), probiotics (lactobacillus acidophilus, lactobacillus casei, enterococcus faecium, bifidobacterium thermophilum), dl-methionine, yucca schidigera, dried rosemary.


WELLNESS
Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Barley, Ground Brown Rice, Tomato Pomace, Rye Flour, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Tomatoes, Rice Bran, Whitefish, Natural Chicken Flavor, Carrots, Spinach, Sweet Potatoes, Apples, Blueberries, Ground Flaxseed, Ground Millet, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Vitamins [Beta-Carotene, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement], Minerals [Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite], Choline Chloride, Mixed Tocopherols (added to preserve freshness), Taurine, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Chicory Root Extract, Garlic Powder, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Green Tea Extract, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation products, Rosemary Extract.

Anyone with an open mind interested in commenting on this food?
Thanks
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Old July 27th, 2011, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shupey View Post
Hi all:

New to the site and hoping you can assist me. I have been feeding my hound Wellness dog food for about a year now. I have come across PC Nutrition First. I was surprised to see the ingredients concidering it comes from a grocery store. I am definately thinking of switching since it is half the price of Wellness ($35 compared to $70) and to the untrained eye the ingredients look just as good if not better. The feeding amount is the same as Wellness as well.

NUTRITION FIRST
Chicken meal, chicken, brown rice, oatmeal, dehulled barley, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols source of vitamin e), natural chicken flavour, tomatoes, whole dried egg, herring meal, flaxseed, salmon oil (source of dha), brewers yeast, whole sweet potatoes, whole carrots, whole blueberries, whole cranberries, whole apples, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, dicalcium phosphate, sodium chloride, chicory root, choline chloride, vitamins & chelated minerals (vitamin a, vitamin d3, vitamin e, niacin, vitamin c, inositol, d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, beta carotene, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, vitamin k, biotin, vitamin b12 supplement, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulphate, iron proteinate, zinc oxide, copper proteinate, copper sulphate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), probiotics (lactobacillus acidophilus, lactobacillus casei, enterococcus faecium, bifidobacterium thermophilum), dl-methionine, yucca schidigera, dried rosemary.


WELLNESS
Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Barley, Ground Brown Rice, Tomato Pomace, Rye Flour, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Tomatoes, Rice Bran, Whitefish, Natural Chicken Flavor, Carrots, Spinach, Sweet Potatoes, Apples, Blueberries, Ground Flaxseed, Ground Millet, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Vitamins [Beta-Carotene, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement], Minerals [Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite], Choline Chloride, Mixed Tocopherols (added to preserve freshness), Taurine, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Chicory Root Extract, Garlic Powder, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Green Tea Extract, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation products, Rosemary Extract.

Anyone with an open mind interested in commenting on this food?
Thanks
As far as kibble goes, I'm actually impressed . The fact that there is no garlic (like the Wellness contains) is good, and they use "chelated" minerals which is also a very good sign. It's usually only the really high quality and holistic kibbles that use chelated. If I were to ever consider kibble again, I would probably look at that

I have one cancer boy (12 yrs) that cannot ever have kibble again and our puppy (16 months) who has numerous health issues cannot take the kibble either.

I'm certainly no food expert, but from what I have learned over the last year with all the health issues, this actually looks to be better quality than the Wellness
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Old July 27th, 2011, 03:07 PM
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I'd be a little curious as to what form of Vit K was being used... If it were Vit K3 (menadione), the synthetic from of Vit K, I'd be a little leery of it.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
I'd be a little curious as to what form of Vit K was being used... If it were Vit K3 (menadione), the synthetic from of Vit K, I'd be a little leery of it.
Hazel, how would you know what form they use? Do you just contact the manufacturer?
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"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole" - Ok... whoever said this has never had a sick or special needs baby. They ARE our whole life!

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Old July 27th, 2011, 03:38 PM
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hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
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Might be on the website, as well, but yes, contacting the manufacturer would be good.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
Might be on the website, as well, but yes, contacting the manufacturer would be good.
It loks as though there were a couple of threads on this very food, and the question of the Vitamin K and also ehtoxyquin came up:

Quote:
Originally Posted by angeldogs
It's the price and the horizon with grain was about the same price as the acana.the pc is cheaper for me.

I emailed President's Choice twice asking about the form of Vitamin K they use and also whether or not the herring meal was preserved with ethoxyquin by the supplier but never got any replies.

Vitamin K3 (menadione sodium bisulphite complex) and ethoxyquin are two big red flag ingredients imo.

Perhaps you could phone their 1-800 number and see if you can get any answers
.


So I guess that would definitely be worth looking in to prior to trying the food. For the price, it certainly isn't any worse than most store brands, and not that much more expensive. It's good to have alternantives that give at least a decent amount of nutrition for those who can't afford better food. And please, if anyone is going to say you can make their food cheaper... let me know how and where to buy the ingredients! It costs me more than $125 a week for 2 dogs (home cooked). I don't think I would ever consider this food after reading the other threads just due to the Vitamin K and Ethoxyquin never having been answered by the company (and thank you Hazel! I honestly wasn't aware of the Vitamin K being potentially harmful).
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"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole" - Ok... whoever said this has never had a sick or special needs baby. They ARE our whole life!

R.I.P. my sweet, handsome Thorin. You are missed dearly Dec. 25, 1999 - Mar. 4, 2012
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Old July 27th, 2011, 04:35 PM
Shupey Shupey is offline
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I found this at http://www.rottweiler.net concerning what vit k is used in PC Nutrition First:
"I just got info back from PC First Nutrition.
**"President’s Choice 1st Nutrition Chicken & Brown Rice Dog Food does not contain Menadione or Ethoxyquin. The source of Vitamin K is K1.**"
I assume that is a good thing. You can read the whole thread here:
http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/nut...-dog-food.html
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Old July 27th, 2011, 04:44 PM
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That would be a good thing, but I think I'd still want to hear it directly from the company, unless you know that member really well.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 05:02 PM
Shupey Shupey is offline
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It's on the internet...it has to be true Just out of curiosity, say the person on the post above was lying about it being K1 for whatever reason, what dangers does K3 pose to a dog?
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Old July 27th, 2011, 05:28 PM
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I believe it's a cancer risk, but I don't know what type(s) of cancer it's been linked to.

And let me say I have no reason to suspect that the person is lying , but it's hard to tell sometimes who's a rep for a company and might have an ulterior motive or a hidden agenda, especially on the internet. So unless it's someone I've had dealings with often enough to make a judgement call that way, I try to get the info from the source.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 06:06 PM
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Thanks for the info everybody. I will follow up with an email to PC to get first hand what the Vit K is. Other than that, it sounds like it is a very decent food for the price and I am going to give it a shot. It's nice to finally see a grocery store dog food that can compete with the pet store brands.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shupey View Post
It's nice to finally see a grocery store dog food that can compete with the pet store brands.
I agree
I know we don't know what the quality of the ingredients are compared to the "high end" foods, but honestly, they have to be better than the typical store brand. As long as there is no ethoxyquin or Vitamin K 3 (or sourced from China, which would be a huge one for me), everything else, save for the brewers yeast, looks pretty decent. At least people on a tight budget can afford to feed a little better.
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"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole" - Ok... whoever said this has never had a sick or special needs baby. They ARE our whole life!

R.I.P. my sweet, handsome Thorin. You are missed dearly Dec. 25, 1999 - Mar. 4, 2012
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Old July 27th, 2011, 08:43 PM
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Not a comparison comment, but and FYI...

Wellness is quite over-priced compared to comparable foods. Wellness is kind of a "fashionable" food for lack of a better word. Similar to how Science Diet is over-priced because it is "well marketed". The Wellness CORE is a much better, grain-free food.

You may find that for $70 a bag you could buy better dog food, or you could find a comparable food for much cheaper. To me, $70 for a bag of dog food that isn't grain-free is robbery!
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Old July 28th, 2011, 08:37 AM
Shupey Shupey is offline
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I tried many different foods before settling on Wellness. My dog is very fussy when it comes to his food. Is there a good brand that you would recommend instead of Wellness at around the same price or less. I have tried Canidaie (giant poops :-)), Chicken Soup for the dog lovers soul food(he wouldnt look at it), Iams (garbage food), Performatrin (liked it for a while) and a couple others I can't remember. He seemed to like Wellness until recently. I notice he sheds alot more since he has been eating it as well. Most of the food I have looked at in the local pet store is around the same price as Wellness but the feeding amount is larger. If there was a comparible food for $15-$20 cheaper I would be very interested. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
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Old July 28th, 2011, 11:24 AM
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Take a look at www.dogfoodanalysis.com

Wellness is listed as a 5 star (out of 6) dog food, which is great! If you take a look at other dog foods in the 5 star category you will find that many of them are cheaper than Wellness. You won't find any foods in the 5 star category that are $20 cheaper than Wellness though, at that price point you will be sacrificing quality. There are a few foods in the 4 star category that are good as well. Look for brands that are made by the same companies as the top foods. Many companies have a top line of foods and a lower line of foods. Acana for example is made by Orijen which is one of the highest quality kibbles out there. There is also Evo (top quality) and Innova which is essentially the step down in the same brand.

I would suggest you take a peek at Acana, it is quite a good food. The grains that are in Acana are high quality grains, and the oils used are fish oils, not vegetable oils so they are actually digestible! Orijen Adult is about $65 for a 30lb bag, and Acana Adult is about $49 for a 30lb bag. There is also an Acana grain-free line that is about $58 for a 30lb bag.
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Last edited by Myka; July 28th, 2011 at 11:44 AM.
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Old July 28th, 2011, 04:26 PM
Shupey Shupey is offline
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Myka, thanks for the tip about the Acana food. I picked up a small bag of the Adult Dog formula on the way home. I gave my dog a little and he loves it, following me around with the bag :-). I think I will give it a try ($54 a bag here compared to $70 for the Wellness). I'll gradually switch him over during the next week or so.
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Old July 28th, 2011, 05:11 PM
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Hey that's great! Personally, I would feed Acana over Wellness even though www.dogfoodanalysis.com rates Wellness over Acana (which I don't actually understand). Good luck with the new food!

Btw, whereabouts do you live? Your dog food prices seem a bit high.
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Old July 28th, 2011, 05:13 PM
Shupey Shupey is offline
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Eastern Ontario. I might be able to find a better price if I shop around. Thanks again.
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Old July 28th, 2011, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Shupey View Post
Eastern Ontario. I might be able to find a better price if I shop around. Thanks again.
Ya, good idea. I find the dog & cat health food stores usually have better prices than box/chain stores. Around here anyway...
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Old July 29th, 2011, 08:36 AM
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I had Clark on Wellness core for a while but was not impressed for the cost of it, highly over rated. Loose stool at least once a week. Switched him to PC Nutrition First, he likes it no more loose stool and less than half the price, I save almost a 100.00 a month. He also really likes the Kirkland foods the chicken and the new natural one.
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Old July 30th, 2011, 01:25 AM
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I have my Coonies on Nutrition First. Myra needs a lamb and rice formula, as she is sensitive to chicken, Macey is on the chicken Puppy food. Both do very well on it, no problems since switching. for a grocery store brand, it is not too bad, they seemed to put some thought into it. No corn is a bonus, as Myra is also sensitive to corn. I have tried hollistic foods with Myra, and in some cases, she did not do well on them at all, same as my cat Abby, She has an extremely sensitive stomach. So I actually keep away from them.. with the exception on Natures Variety canned dog food.. I get the Rabbit formula and mix a few tablespoons in with the dogs dry food.. because the downside to a lamb and rice formula is it can be kind of bland for them.. they tire of it easily.
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