Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Dog food forum > Cat food forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old March 31st, 2011, 08:47 AM
fleolicious's Avatar
fleolicious fleolicious is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Montreal
Posts: 25
Switching to raw - with a hand grinder?

Long story short, after doing some reading on the side and combing through this forum for advice, I'm fully sold on the idea of feeding my 3 cats raw.

However, there may or may not be a technicality in the way: The freezer part of my fridge is kind of tiny, so feeding whole prey is out of the question (I can't stuff 2-3 weeks worth of parts in there, and the idea of having to deal with the mess of cutting more often than that is a little nauseating ), thus leaving me with ground option. I will buy an electric grinder if I absolutely, /absolutely/ have to (soooo not in the budget right now ), but I already have a manual one I've been using to grind all sorts of meat for sausages, patties and whatnot, and even though it's a bit of a workout I'm quite happy with it... but I've never tried grinding a bone.

So all this babble is to ask, can it be done? Will it be ground finely enough - or coarsely enough - to be safe for cats? What should a ground bone for kitty dinner look like anyway in terms of size? Does anyone maybe have a picture of their final product? I've seen the pictorial on Anne Jablonski's page, but those pics are kind of small :/
I just keep having these horror visions of a tiny piece of rib or something chipping off in the grinder and getting stuck in the cat's throat Any input would be greatly appreciated!

P.S. Do I buy taurine online, or can I find it somewhere in Montreal?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old March 31st, 2011, 08:01 PM
fleolicious's Avatar
fleolicious fleolicious is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Montreal
Posts: 25
Apparently I didn't search hard enough; for anyone else with the same problem here's a topic: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=60536

... it's just not at all encouraging

I'll see if I can somehow re-organize that measly freezer (so it would hold at least 10 days worth of food) and try feeding frankenprey anyway. Sigh.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old March 31st, 2011, 11:03 PM
14+kitties's Avatar
14+kitties 14+kitties is offline
150% PRO S/N
Starcastle Champion, V:force Champion, UFO Shoot Out Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Crazy Closet Champion, Railway Line Champion, Penguin Pass Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: MYOB
Posts: 15,408
You could just use the meat portion and save the bone for when you can afford a grinder. Yes, it will take a bit more time taking the meat off the bone but it's worth it. I have an electric grinder and it won't do bone period. I'm not putting the money out for a more expensive model either.
When I did manage to grind bones I didn't like the feel of them. I would much rather just give my cats a chicken back to chew on. But I understand space is an issue.
I googled where to buy taurine for you. I can find it here in one of the health food stores but not sure if you can in your area. There's lot of good info there.
http://www.google.ca/search?aq=f&sou...+I+buy+taurine
You can also feed your cat(s) beef heart but it is important not to grind this. Give it to them whole. Grinding increases the surface area of the meat, exposing more of the taurine to the air. This results in oxidation of taurine and decreases the amount that is useful for the cat.
There is a lot of information available in our raw food forum. We also have a few folks who feed exclusive raw to their cats. Hopefully they will pop in soon. I'm still in the switch over stage with my gang.
__________________
Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old April 1st, 2011, 12:26 AM
Tundra_Queen's Avatar
Tundra_Queen Tundra_Queen is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northern Ontario
Posts: 5,603
14+ Do chicken hearts have taurine in them too or just beef hearts?
__________________
~Friendship is like a bank account. You can't continue to draw on it without making deposits~


~Tegan 9 year old yellow lab~
~Wilbur 9 year old LH cat~
~Mirabelle 18 mos dsh~
~O'Shawnnessey 18 mos dsh~
~Darby 1 year old dsh~
~Mindy 7 yr old shih tzu~
~Dexter 10yr old Salmon (large goldfish)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old April 1st, 2011, 07:56 AM
14+kitties's Avatar
14+kitties 14+kitties is offline
150% PRO S/N
Starcastle Champion, V:force Champion, UFO Shoot Out Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Crazy Closet Champion, Railway Line Champion, Penguin Pass Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: MYOB
Posts: 15,408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tundra_Queen View Post
14+ Do chicken hearts have taurine in them too or just beef hearts?
Yes TQ, all muscle meat has taurine.
__________________
Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old April 1st, 2011, 04:39 PM
fleolicious's Avatar
fleolicious fleolicious is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Montreal
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
You could just use the meat portion and save the bone for when you can afford a grinder.
That's what I ended up doing - although I didn't grind the meat in the end, it wouldn't save me much space and apparently my gang loves gnawing on bigger chunks - but I also discovered that if I cut the backs into 3-4 inch pieces and leave out the breast bone completely I can arrange it all in one big flat glass dish for freezing. Ditto for wings, so in the end I managed to squeeze in 4 cut-up chickens (along with all the human food already in the freezer) and there would still be room for little more. When there's a will...

Would feeding beef hearts on regular basis completely eliminate the need for supplementing taurine? (I'm not trying to cut corners here, it's just that giving them as much as possible - of any nutrient - from food rather than pills, powders and whatnot feels somehow closer to "the real thing".)

Thanks for googling stuff for me (oops ), I asked mainly because I'm new to Montreal and still a bit lost when it comes to looking for things. I'll try my health food store then ... and thanks a lot for your help, 14+
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old April 2nd, 2011, 06:47 AM
Love4himies's Avatar
Love4himies Love4himies is offline
Rescue is my fav. breed
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boating in the 1000 Islands
Posts: 17,758
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleolicious View Post
Long story short, after doing some reading on the side and combing through this forum for advice, I'm fully sold on the idea of feeding my 3 cats raw.

yay, a decision you won't regret!

However, there may or may not be a technicality in the way: The freezer part of my fridge is kind of tiny, so feeding whole prey is out of the question (I can't stuff 2-3 weeks worth of parts in there, and the idea of having to deal with the mess of cutting more often than that is a little nauseating ), thus leaving me with ground option. I will buy an electric grinder if I absolutely, /absolutely/ have to (soooo not in the budget right now ), but I already have a manual one I've been using to grind all sorts of meat for sausages, patties and whatnot, and even though it's a bit of a workout I'm quite happy with it... but I've never tried grinding a bone.
We used to hand grind and it was some work to do.


So all this babble is to ask, can it be done? Will it be ground finely enough - or coarsely enough - to be safe for cats? What should a ground bone for kitty dinner look like anyway in terms of size? Does anyone maybe have a picture of their final product? I've seen the pictorial on Anne Jablonski's page, but those pics are kind of small :/
I am making some today and will post pics.

I just keep having these horror visions of a tiny piece of rib or something chipping off in the grinder and getting stuck in the cat's throat Any input would be greatly appreciated!

P.S. Do I buy taurine online, or can I find it somewhere in Montreal?
Taurine can be bought at a store that sells health supplements.

You are right about the size of bones that should be in raw. I find my ginder and even the hand grinder did grind all the bones small enough that I don't have to worry about one getting stuck.

Chicken bones are not a problem to grind with a hand grinder. What I do is I smash up the bone with a meat cleaver before grinding, it makes is soooooooooo much easier. I will try to get pics for you when I am making it. I am old though, and my memory is not what it was so I may forget

I also leave chucks of chicken for my semi-feral to much on and some large pieces with bone in it to help clean her teeth. Will try to get pics of those too for you.
__________________
Cat maid to:

Jasper, male Ragdoll ?? (approx 10 yrs)
Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 7 yrs)

Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old April 2nd, 2011, 03:39 PM
fleolicious's Avatar
fleolicious fleolicious is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Montreal
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
What I do is I smash up the bone with a meat cleaver before grinding, it makes is soooooooooo much easier.
Oh, clever! Maybe that would have helped, because... I tried grinding, but it didn't work out very well at all - meat turned into a mushy paste real quick, and tendons and bones just got stuck in the curves and refused to come out. I didn't give up though, so after an hour or so of struggle I had a meat mush and pieces of bone maybe 1/3 of an inch long, which seemed exactly like something cat could swallow whole and then have it rip something on the way out

I did some freezer reorganizing so I was able to fit whole chunks and pieces in there and I think I will just skip grinding altogether if they keep doing OK with whole.
One thing that worries me is that Gnosis and Pretzel got the hang of bones right away, but Kamikaze doesn't seem to understand they are also food - he either strips pieces of meat or just licks around the bony parts... but this is only our third day of raw and I'm still feeding 50/50 with canned, so I'm hoping it will dawn on him eventually. In case it doesn't, though, or he just plain doesn't like it, I will be grinding for him after all so those pics would be super useful!

Thanks a bunch
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old April 2nd, 2011, 04:58 PM
Love4himies's Avatar
Love4himies Love4himies is offline
Rescue is my fav. breed
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boating in the 1000 Islands
Posts: 17,758
Here are the pics I promised you:

I use a meat cleaver to break up the bones into tiny pieces so they are pliable :
Name:  meat cleaver.jpg
Views: 298
Size:  49.6 KB

Here is what the leg looks like when I am about half way done with the leg and thigh:
Name:  chicken led cut up.jpg
Views: 279
Size:  43.1 KB

Here are the small pieces that I leave for the kitties to chew, when I say kitties, I really just mean Rose my semi feral. She survived on her own for 3 years so chewing bones is what she was brought up on. Now I do leave ligament that keeps the tiny rib bones attached. That way, Rose is forced to put the meat to the side of her mouth with most of it hanging out and chewing as she swallows.
Name:  cut up peices.jpg
Views: 295
Size:  45.5 KB
__________________
Cat maid to:

Jasper, male Ragdoll ?? (approx 10 yrs)
Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 7 yrs)

Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old April 2nd, 2011, 05:01 PM
Love4himies's Avatar
Love4himies Love4himies is offline
Rescue is my fav. breed
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boating in the 1000 Islands
Posts: 17,758
Here is what my end product looks like, there are no bones left for choking:
Name:  end product.jpg
Views: 301
Size:  48.6 KB

I freeze them in no-name medium freezer bags, I flatten out the meat to eliminate as much air in the bag as possible and it makes for better storage in the freezer:
Name:  in bag.jpg
Views: 388
Size:  60.2 KB

You are lucky that your kitties will chew the bones. Only Rose will do so in my clan.
__________________
Cat maid to:

Jasper, male Ragdoll ?? (approx 10 yrs)
Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 7 yrs)

Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old April 2nd, 2011, 05:04 PM
Love4himies's Avatar
Love4himies Love4himies is offline
Rescue is my fav. breed
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boating in the 1000 Islands
Posts: 17,758
Just a couple of notes. Cats don`t get their vit D from the sun, but from the skin of the animals that they eat, so giving them meat with skin on it is important. Also liver provides them with their vit A and many cats don`t like whole liver, hopefully yours will.

There is taurine in all raw meat, but especially in hearts.

And finally, cats require the highest levels of B vitamins per pound, so I add a few raw egg yolks (no whites ) to their food.

Good luck!
__________________
Cat maid to:

Jasper, male Ragdoll ?? (approx 10 yrs)
Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 7 yrs)

Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 0%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:08 PM.