Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Dog training - dog behavior

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 26th, 2010, 03:00 PM
VIOLET0019's Avatar
VIOLET0019 VIOLET0019 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 137
Question A BIG PULLING DOG - how to retrain please?

I have a lovely neighbour who rescued a large white dog (labrador type) about 5 years ago. She is of a petite frame and struggles to walk her dog as he is of the pulling type. I would greatly appreciate any tips, information, advice etc. on how to retrain a dog that pulls? This also causes great stress on parts of her body that ache! Thank you very much!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old June 26th, 2010, 03:35 PM
VIOLET0019's Avatar
VIOLET0019 VIOLET0019 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 137
Question Pulling dog - opinions needed re: Neck collars+damaging cervical spine?

I would appreciate any experiences on the most humane "device" to use, (at the end of a leash), when walking a very strong and large dog? I posted a question today on how to retrain a pullling dog, but I am also quite concerned with regards to damaging the dog's cervical spine from years of pulling and wearing a neck collar. At the moment the dog wears a collar that becmes so tight around her neck as she is pulling.....but she still seems to be pulling!! Are there any types of body harnesses that might be healthier for this type of dog to wear, to avoid future health issues concerning her neck area? If yes, are there any names, brands of any suggested products that I could receive so that I can help my neighbour and her beautiful rescued dog Jazz?
Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old June 26th, 2010, 03:38 PM
14+kitties's Avatar
14+kitties 14+kitties is offline
150% PRO S/N
Starcastle Champion, V:force Champion, UFO Shoot Out Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Crazy Closet Champion, Railway Line Champion, Penguin Pass Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: MYOB
Posts: 15,407
You would do better to add your question to the other post instead of having all the different posts going. It gets confusing. Especially when you do all the funky colours.
__________________
Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old June 26th, 2010, 03:40 PM
Frenchy's Avatar
Frenchy Frenchy is offline
-
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Quebec
Posts: 30,227
I would either get a halti or a harness.

but does your neighbor know how to train a dog to walk ? When the dog pulls too much , she has to stop and change direction ... type thing.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old June 26th, 2010, 04:11 PM
maneater's Avatar
maneater maneater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: ontario
Posts: 191
I walk my large dog on a prong. I have tried harnesses and slip chokers and martingale collars. The prong was the best solution. They also have little rubber ends you can put on the metal ends. BUT the prong does require training on proper use. It is meant for a quick correct and release. My dog pulled like mad. With the help of a trainer we figured the prong was the best bet.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old June 26th, 2010, 04:22 PM
VIOLET0019's Avatar
VIOLET0019 VIOLET0019 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 137
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
I would either get a halti or a harness.

but does your neighbor know how to train a dog to walk ? When the dog pulls too much , she has to stop and change direction ... type thing.
Thank you for your reply. Today when I saw how Jazz was pulling and the collar was unbelievably tight around her neck, I did decide to suggest a harness around the body. (I have a little dog who wears one.) She mentioned that she does have one, but that it caused her greater difficulty as somehow her dog was able to pull her with even more strength! That is why I was wondering if there is a specific brand of harness that I can recommend to her, from experiences of other members who may have or have had pulling dogs.....? It worries me, as I heard a horrendous story of someone who had a "pulling dog", and the dog eventually had a great physical mishap from the pulling, that ended up with very serious and sad medical problems......

And no. she does not know how to train a dog to walk ..... that is why I am posting on this forum.... to obtain some information to hopefully be able to help her and Jazz out, and to give to her some advice, links, etc... i.e. such as this little tip you suggested...."she has to stop and change direction ... type thing".....I would like to perhaps find some more details on how to do this method, as it sounds great.....>? (i.e. when she stops and the dog is still pulling and panting.... how does one physically then change directions? Are there any words spoken to the dog? etc.etc.) Thank you. I appreciate your replies!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old June 26th, 2010, 04:29 PM
maneater's Avatar
maneater maneater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: ontario
Posts: 191
when your walking the dog and the dog starts to pull just make like an about face and start walking the other way. the dog will learn to follow and not to lead. if the dog is pulling no matter what kind of collar they have on there should be quick correct and release. like a snap of the leash and a let go. I use the "lets go" command with my dogs. if they start pulling I will turn around start going the other way and say lets go...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old June 26th, 2010, 04:30 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
Moderator
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 49,742
The method will work best if your friend is strong enough to actually change the dog's momentum--if the dog is powerful enough to pull her over, it may not work.

If she can find a safe fenced-in area to start, it will be safer.

She walks the dog forward and the very second the dog moves out ahead and the leash starts to get taut, she does a 180 and walks off in the opposite direction, tugging the dog with her. Ideally, the dog stops and comes along, too. Every time the dog forges ahead to pull, she changes direction randomly, bringing the dog along. Eventually, the dog will begin to learn that it has to watch its owner and follow along.

It does work after a while but all the pivoting and direction changes can be dizzying till the dog gets the idea.
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old June 26th, 2010, 04:30 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
Moderator
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 49,742
You're so much more concise than I am, maneater!
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old June 26th, 2010, 09:26 PM
Marcha's Avatar
Marcha Marcha is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Greater Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 510
We stop (a really sudden stop), as soon as the dog moves ahead of us where she loses us from her peripheral vision. And when we stop, she has to go back and sit beside us, and look us in the eye for direction. As soon as she looks us in the eye, we decide where we will go.

Or we will make a 180, and turn into the opposite direction without warning (usually when she walks too far ahead of us before the leash gets tight. If she turns when we do before there's a snap in the leash, she gets a love party and a treat.

These techniques would depend on the amount of time we have available for the walk. But during training walks, we will use the 180 as preferred method, since it gives our 95lbs dog the opportunity to really learn that we are the ones who decide where we are going.

Also, but not immediately related to the walk in practical sense, is having the dog leashed to you in the house, and expecting the dog to go where you go. You need to go to the kitchen, dog has to come too. You need to sit on the couch, dog needs to settle down too. Etc. It tells the dog that YOU are in charge and decide where things are happening, rather than the dog deciding what's next.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old June 26th, 2010, 10:07 PM
HelenNutmeg's Avatar
HelenNutmeg HelenNutmeg is offline
BassetHound Rescue Quebec
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Rigaud
Posts: 307
Get A Gentle Leader

http://www.gentleleader.com/View.asp...ntleleader/faq
__________________
http://bassethoundrescuequebec.com Website Finding Hounds Forever Homes

http://bassethoundrescuechronicles.blogspot.com/ Blog

http://www.meetup.com/Montreal-Basset-Hound-GuardiansGroup/ Basset Owners Meet-Up Group

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=322077912703&ref=ts
Facebook
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old June 28th, 2010, 02:33 PM
tenderfoot's Avatar
tenderfoot tenderfoot is offline
Senior Contributor - Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 1,249
Gentle Leaders have been known to 'tweak' the neck and cause a sideways whip lash effect. Gentle Leader does make aN 'Easy Walk Harness' that clips in the front and compress' the dogs chest when he pulls forward - it works on SOME dogs.
If you could help to train this dog (since you seem to care a lot and the owner seems a tad infirm?), you could help teach the dog not to pull at all and then transfer the methods to the owner.
First of all...people are the ones who teach dogs to pull. Every step you take with the dog on a tight leash teaches the dog to pull the human because it works.
Begin by standing still - lock the leash to you (leash hand with thumb in pocket works great). DO NOT MOVE ONE INCH!! Allow the dog to pull against the pressure of the leash as if he is tied to a tree. Trees are great teachers because they don't give and they don't move. The dog creates his own pressure by pulling against the leash and when it doesn't work he steps back and creates slack in the leash to get comfortable. Praise when he does this.
Do this several times in different locations until he stops pulling against the leash. You can give it a word like "close" so he learns what you are asking for.
Then you need to progress to moving. Have the dog on a short but loose leash beside you. You are going to take 2-3 steps forward on a loose leash and then stop abruptly (with a slight stomp of your foot to cue the dog). If the dog stops with you then relax, keep the leash loose and praise him. If he step 1 inch past your toe line then you are going to turn sharply into him and go 2-3 steps in the opposite direction and repeat the drill. It is very simple. If he flies past you before you even get to the 2-3 steps then you are going to INSTANTLY go backwards 5-10 steps - bringing him back to your side and when he gets beside you start walking forward again. Consider this a 5 yard penalty for rushing.
It is always best to start drills in the house on carpet. Less distractions and the carpet provides good traction.
You are teaching the dog to be aware of your body. He gets pressure for moving past your toe line by having to turn around or go backwards. He learns that pulling to what he wants only gets him further away - but walking nicely beside you on a loose leash gets him moving forward which is what he wants.
__________________
Love Them & Lead Them,
~Elizabeth & Doug
www.TenderfootTraining.com
Dog Training the Way Nature Intended
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old July 2nd, 2010, 08:05 AM
mastifflover's Avatar
mastifflover mastifflover is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,007
Personally I would use a Lupi harness. I find these really help to keep the dog from pulling. I trained a 120lb Bloodhound to walk on with manners on a leash. This was a dog who had never been walked on a leash and could pull me down the street. In two days he had done a complete 180. In 2 weeks he was walking with a regular collar and no pulling. Most harnesses will actually give the dog more power to pull.
__________________
Robin
A dog has so many friends because they wag their tails not their tongues.
R.I.P. Buddy 2002-2008 The best Mastiff ever.
Now owned by Clark the Crazy American Bulldog
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old July 2nd, 2010, 09:15 AM
JJO's Avatar
JJO JJO is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 24
Lightbulb

We use a prong collar on Jack (105 lb GSD) and it
saved us from dislocated limbs, lolz. These collars
do work & are harmless..even the "dog whisperer"
recommends them for headstrong/heavy dogs
__________________
Jack -2yr GSD
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old April 7th, 2011, 12:18 AM
mummummum's Avatar
mummummum mummummum is offline
-
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: The Hammer
Posts: 8,535
Did you see this excellent advice Hatchman?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderfoot View Post
Gentle Leaders have been known to 'tweak' the neck and cause a sideways whip lash effect. Gentle Leader does make aN 'Easy Walk Harness' that clips in the front and compress' the dogs chest when he pulls forward - it works on SOME dogs.
If you could help to train this dog (since you seem to care a lot and the owner seems a tad infirm?), you could help teach the dog not to pull at all and then transfer the methods to the owner.
First of all...people are the ones who teach dogs to pull. Every step you take with the dog on a tight leash teaches the dog to pull the human because it works.
Begin by standing still - lock the leash to you (leash hand with thumb in pocket works great). DO NOT MOVE ONE INCH!! Allow the dog to pull against the pressure of the leash as if he is tied to a tree. Trees are great teachers because they don't give and they don't move. The dog creates his own pressure by pulling against the leash and when it doesn't work he steps back and creates slack in the leash to get comfortable. Praise when he does this.
Do this several times in different locations until he stops pulling against the leash. You can give it a word like "close" so he learns what you are asking for.
Then you need to progress to moving. Have the dog on a short but loose leash beside you. You are going to take 2-3 steps forward on a loose leash and then stop abruptly (with a slight stomp of your foot to cue the dog). If the dog stops with you then relax, keep the leash loose and praise him. If he step 1 inch past your toe line then you are going to turn sharply into him and go 2-3 steps in the opposite direction and repeat the drill. It is very simple. If he flies past you before you even get to the 2-3 steps then you are going to INSTANTLY go backwards 5-10 steps - bringing him back to your side and when he gets beside you start walking forward again. Consider this a 5 yard penalty for rushing.
It is always best to start drills in the house on carpet. Less distractions and the carpet provides good traction.
You are teaching the dog to be aware of your body. He gets pressure for moving past your toe line by having to turn around or go backwards. He learns that pulling to what he wants only gets him further away - but walking nicely beside you on a loose leash gets him moving forward which is what he wants.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old April 7th, 2011, 12:25 AM
Shaykeija's Avatar
Shaykeija Shaykeija is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,582
That was just amazing info. Thanks for posting..
__________________
The more I get to know people, the more I love my dog...

There ain't no cure for stupid ...... but we should make sure we laugh and point it out to everyone else
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old April 7th, 2011, 07:14 AM
Hatchman's Avatar
Hatchman Hatchman is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by mummummum View Post
Did you see this excellent advice Hatchman?
Yeah actually that is one of my favourite posts in this thread. I'm using it as my guideline. I also will follow up, starting today, on Masha's method of quick reversals or changes of direction. I tried that a while back but I think I gave up too quickly on it, thinking I'd best start from scratch. I just need to be consistent and patient. Max is very smart and trainable and quite eager to please. He'll get it if we keep repeating (and rewarding when warranted).

Thank you everyone.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 10.00%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:57 PM.