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Old June 13th, 2010, 09:32 PM
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mikischo mikischo is offline
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Confused about raw foods for cats

I have decided to take the plunge and switch my 13 year old "foster" kitty, Punky, almost exclusively to raw. He is getting fussier about the canned food but loves real meat. I hesitated to make the switch before because I didn't want him to get used to it if his original owners took him back (I know they would not continue to feed it) but it doesn't seem that he will be going anywhere any time soon.

The two younger ones are not interested in raw.

I did buy Urban Carnivore (Carnivora) whole ground chicken once. Is anyone familiar with this brand? Here in Winnipeg it comes in dog size 8 oz. patties but I have found it can easily be cut, while still frozen, with a large sharp knife into kitty size portions. Punky likes it.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of ready made raw pet food here in Winnipeg that is strictly meat. The only other one I have found here in Winnipeg is Natures Variety frozen raw but it also contains some fruits and vegetables which I understand are unnecessary for cats.

It's funny that when I went to buy it, the lady at the store told me I should get the Natures Variety because the Urban Carnivore didn't contain any vegetables and was not nutritionally complete for cats. I thought it was the other way around.

What do you think of my feeding this particular brand to him as a regular diet? Am I on the right track? Does it contain everything he needs? What about things like taurine? I might still give him a little canned now and then if he will eat it but he is getting fussier and fussier. Are some varieties better for cats than others. For example, bison and elk are not something a cat would eat in the wild but there are things like chicken, duck, lamb, beef and rabbit.

Here is some information from their website.

http://www.carnivora.ca/html/feature...ucts/index.cfm

I know a lot of you make your own homemade raw diet but I don't have a grinder and besides to feed just one cat the readymade would be easier and more convenient and actually less expensive than the better quality canned.

I am also a little concerned about him getting too much bone but if I supplemented it with a little muscle meat like chicken or beef I might throw off the nutritional balance.
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"The animals share with us the privilege of having a soul." -Pythagoras
"The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different." -Hippocrates
"Let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." -Jack Layton
"Be the change you want to see in the world" -Gandhi

Kitties: Punky (13), Tweeky (6), and Sassy (7)

SweetMickey 1991 to May 24, 2009

Last edited by mikischo; June 13th, 2010 at 09:43 PM. Reason: Added something.
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Old June 13th, 2010, 09:48 PM
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I used to feed NV raw before I made my own, but was just too expensive. Yes, it does contain SOME veggies, but not enough to be significant and is, IMO, better than any canned because the cats are getting their nutrients in their natural form and not through added chemically made nutrients.

I am not familiar with Carnovora, but from their website, they are on the right track for feeding cats what they should be eating.

I do not add any veggies to my homemade raw, but all my cats do get outside and they all do eat grass.

The only thing about premade raw for me (and it is great for people who don't want to make their own), is that I don't control the ingredients(especially the bone to meat ratio) and it may be frozen longer than I like it to be.
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Old June 13th, 2010, 09:53 PM
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Thanks for your reply, L4H. Yes, the bone to meat ratio is one of my concerns. Would I upset the balance too much if I added just a little muscle meat? I am really not ready to take the plunge into making my own at present. Maybe in future. By the way, Punky also goes outside and does eat grass at least in the summer.
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"The animals share with us the privilege of having a soul." -Pythagoras
"The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different." -Hippocrates
"Let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." -Jack Layton
"Be the change you want to see in the world" -Gandhi

Kitties: Punky (13), Tweeky (6), and Sassy (7)

SweetMickey 1991 to May 24, 2009
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Old June 13th, 2010, 09:56 PM
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Check the poops, if they are too hard or become whitish, there is too much bone and add some meat. I have added muscle meat to some prepared raw because my foster kittens were having too much trouble pooping. Adding some fresh raw meat won't hurt as long as it doesn't make up too much of the diet.
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Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 7 yrs)

Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
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Old June 13th, 2010, 09:57 PM
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Love4himies Love4himies is offline
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Wanted to add, you can never go wrong with a properly prepared raw diet.
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Jasper, male Ragdoll ?? (approx 10 yrs)
Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 7 yrs)

Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
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Old June 13th, 2010, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikischo View Post
What do you think of my feeding this particular brand to him as a regular diet? Am I on the right track? Does it contain everything he needs? What about things like taurine? I might still give him a little canned now and then if he will eat it but he is getting fussier and fussier. Are some varieties better for cats than others. For example, bison and elk are not something a cat would eat in the wild but there are things like chicken, duck, lamb, beef and rabbit.
I'm not personally familiar with the brand, but it is carried by one of the best exclusive raw food stores here & their site looks good.

Taurine is found in meat and also in organs especially heart, so as long as you have a proper balance of organs you're good there.

As for meat variety, a lot of that depends on what your cat will eat, though I would try to limit fish to once a week. I was also told at one point by an employee of a raw food store to feed red meat at least 1-2 a week for the higher iron, taurine content but Duffy's homeopath said she didn't need that much as a senior, which was good for her cuz Duffy did not like any of the red meats (beef, bison, elk) or lamb, but loved chicken & turkey. I know a vet who raw feeds his cat & she only likes the red meats, she won't eat chicken.
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Old June 13th, 2010, 11:15 PM
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Thanks, Growler. Punky does love raw steak and absolutely loves chicken so I could likely give him one of the red meat ones for variety. This company doesn't carry turkey, but they do carry duck and quail. I would likely give him more of the chicken than anything.

As I had mentioned, one of my concerns is the bone to meat ratio. This is complicated by the fact that Punky is an indoor/outdoor cat. He has been that way all his life and I can't see being able to change that any time soon. He was in this neighbourhood for many years before I started looking after him but, being neutered, he doesn't go far and even comes when I call his name.

However, because he is outdoors quite a bit when the weather is nice and prefers to do his business outside if he has the choice, I can't monitor his bowel movements very easily and would not necessarily know if he was getting too much bone until things had progressed quite far. I am thinking of erring on the safe side and supplementing with small amounts of muscle meat on a regular basis. Would it make sense to do that?

I also might still give him canned now and then if he is interested (he definitely has a preference for real meat).

Also I did notice a few of what I thought were kind of sharp looking pieces of bone in this product, although they weren't all that large. Is that normal in commercial raw and should I be concerned? I have nothing to compare it to as it is the only commercial raw product I have seen.

Edit: Just discovered the following site. Maybe I better not get the beef if this is what it is like. The bones in the chicken I got definitely weren't that big but a few pieces did look sharp like that. I did pick a few out if I saw them.

http://www.damascusroad.ca/Links.htm
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"The animals share with us the privilege of having a soul." -Pythagoras
"The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different." -Hippocrates
"Let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." -Jack Layton
"Be the change you want to see in the world" -Gandhi

Kitties: Punky (13), Tweeky (6), and Sassy (7)

SweetMickey 1991 to May 24, 2009

Last edited by mikischo; June 13th, 2010 at 11:38 PM.
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Old June 13th, 2010, 11:39 PM
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Adding some extra muscle meat is not a problem, they usually have a problem with too much organ meat rather than too much muscle meat. The guideline for bone is roughly 5-10% of their diet. There is calcium in muscle meat as well so it's unlikely to create a difficiency of calcium by adding some extra meat. I did actually have Duffy on only chicken muscle meat for a couple of weeks by her homeopath vets recommendation after a IBD episode, but not something you would do at any other time.

Normally it is not an issue with small bone slivers as it will be digested, but absolutely you can take them out if it concerns you, I used to remove the larger pieces from Duffy's food before I needed to switch her to boneless (using TC Instincts Premix) because of the IBD issues.

Some of the commercial raw foods do have small bone chunks that pass though the bone sifter, unless they triple grind the bones which I know not all do. Unfortunately all the companies I'm familiar with are not available in Winnipeg as of yet, they are local BC made some suppling outlets in AB, Ont & Qc though.
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Old June 13th, 2010, 11:44 PM
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If the bone slivers are that big & there's that many of them in a small amount of food I'd be looking for another brand.

Were there other raw brands besides this one & NV at the store? Maybe you can ask the employee if any of the other companies triple grind the bones?

Another option is buying your own meat ground or chunks & using TC Instincts Premix powder, this is what I was feeding Duffy when she could no longer digest bone properly.
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  #10  
Old June 14th, 2010, 12:43 AM
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mikischo mikischo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by growler View Post
If the bone slivers are that big & there's that many of them in a small amount of food I'd be looking for another brand.

Were there other raw brands besides this one & NV at the store? Maybe you can ask the employee if any of the other companies triple grind the bones?

Another option is buying your own meat ground or chunks & using TC Instincts Premix powder, this is what I was feeding Duffy when she could no longer digest bone properly.
I did do quite a bit of phoning around before I got the Urban Carnivore. This and NV were all I could find in Winnipeg. I got it at one of our Pet Valu stores (the only Pet Valu that carries raw) and the employee didn't seem to be all that knowledgeable. She told me that cats needed to have some vegetables in order to have a nutritionally balanced diet. The bone shards in the chicken were definitely not as big as the ones shown in the picture of the beef product and I was able to pick them out without too much trouble. I will continue to do so if I use this product again.

The TC Instincts is definitely another option. I would likely be able to find it here or I could order it. For now I think I will give the Urban Carnivore one more try with a little extra muscle meat added. Thanks for all your help.

P.S. I was just browsing old threads while writing this and it seems that Dracko feeds both her cats and dogs Urban Carnivore, or at least she did in 2007. Wonder if she still uses it.
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The animals share with us the privilege of having a soul." -Pythagoras
"The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different." -Hippocrates
"Let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." -Jack Layton
"Be the change you want to see in the world" -Gandhi

Kitties: Punky (13), Tweeky (6), and Sassy (7)

SweetMickey 1991 to May 24, 2009

Last edited by mikischo; June 14th, 2010 at 12:49 AM.
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