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  #1  
Old June 6th, 2010, 09:02 AM
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Sew-sew-steve Sew-sew-steve is offline
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call me crazy...

ok, so accross the street from where i work is a local mosque.

this mosque has windows. on the outside of the windows, is a concrete desgin, to kinda let light in, but keep the window shady at the same time. now between the glass and concrete is an empty window ledge.

anyhow, on this ledge, lies an emaciated mother cat, with three kittens. one is the regular orange with stripes, its got blue eyes. another is the regular grey one, with silver-ish eyes. the third is a calico just like they're mother.

now, the mother comes to me for food, i've been feeding it for the past couple of days.

i've got kiko under control, and shes basically gonna move iin with me full time once i figure out how/where to put its litter box in my washroom and how to put its food in my room.

anyhow. the room outside that kiko used to stay in (she doesnt anymore) is where i would like to keep this mother and her little babies.

why ? you might ask.
well i want the babies. shes got little to no food on a good day. shes emaciated, and not to mention an emotional wreck. its extremely hot, the window ledge is small, the room i have is spacious, has a window, and a door, so its much more safe.

i want to let her stay in the room with her babies, until they are old enough to be taken away, and then i can take her back to where she was before.

i repeat, i WANT to take her. meaning im not going to yet, i want to know if its fine, like is it healthy psychologically for her if i went and took her and changed her location temporarily.

the problem would be catching her. i could easily get her babies (who are around 1 month old each), but her getting caught is hard. is there anyway i can sedate her with food or something?

anyhow, thats something thats been on my mind. kiko is doing great, i've clipped her nails, so shes not tearing my hand to shreds anymore.

anyhow, im not gonna let kiko come in contact with any of the other cats until i take the mother away, so they would be seperated. and by the time i can take the mother away, i would have vaccinated kiko, declawed her, and dewormed her aswell. possibly even ask for hair shedding pills or something of that sort.

anyhow, so yeah, thats that. what are your opinions, suggestions, adivce etc.. etc.. ?
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Old June 6th, 2010, 09:10 AM
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If the mother comes close enough to you to get food, would you be able to catch her by the scruff of the neck. She will panic but if you get her in a carrier then all you have to do is pick up her babies. Once they are all together she may relax.
If you can not get her, the other option is to just keep feeding her and giving her water. eventually she will trust you and so will her babies...
And I don't think changing her location at this point will make her life any worse than it is now. She is basically starving, I think change of location att his point sound good.
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Old June 6th, 2010, 09:20 AM
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honestly, i've tried it with kicko, catching her by surprise, and i've come to the conclusion that cats are very flexible. im afraid of her hind legs in that situation.

i DID catch her before, just to see if i can, and the amazing thing is, once i lurred her into the box, i covered it with a cardboard box and it worked, but it actually broke through the openning for your hand to carry the box. so i was just stumped at that point. i'd much rather sedate her.

i read just now online, and lots of people are saying benadryl. does it really work? i dont want to kill her, and i dont want to give her any kind of human drug, but i was hopping there was this mixture you can make at home that makes her sleep? iunno.
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Old June 6th, 2010, 09:26 AM
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Benadryl does not always sedate....it can have the opposite affect. Sedation can be dangerous because you do not know her physical status..her body may not be able to take any type of sedation. Can you get something more that an box? cage type?...I think you should ge ther to turst you enough...grab her slowly and just pet her...release her....do this for a whil euntil she is use to being held...then the next time...just take her with you to your home....do you live far from the mosque?
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Old June 6th, 2010, 09:43 AM
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that sucks, cause honestly, i dont have the time, money, or energy to keep getting her to trust me. i can get her to trust me at my house. i get too tired trying to catch her, especially with the sun being as strong as it is, and a sweaty tiresome 20-30 minute ride from the mosque to my house.
im not being lazy, just trying to be logical. im gonna basically keep feeding it. but i dont know what to do, i might buy a cage and put food in it, catch it the same way i caught kiko. kiko didnt trust me until about an hour in that same room. btw shes much heavier now, about 1-3 pounds. more gentle too. i think these three little rugrats will be a great addition to her life.

i guess ill have to do what you suggested, keep giving her food and water until i can get her inside a box or something of that sort.
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Old June 6th, 2010, 09:54 AM
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you are right, it does suck....if you can catch as soon as possible...do it. If you think you can get her the same way like Kiko....do it. The sooner she is off the streets the sooner she gets healthier...good luck
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Old June 6th, 2010, 01:24 PM
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Your heart is definitely in the right place, SSS. However, I hope that in your eagerness you are not biting off more than you can chew. Permanently taking on an additional three kittens who are going to become cats is a big responsibility. From what you have said you are a young man with limited funds who is working and trying to save money for your education. You will be taking on the responsibility for the care, feeding, and vetting of four kitties instead of just one, not to mention doing what is best to help the mother. Pet ownership is a long term responsibility. (Barring serious illness or injury, a cat can live for 15 to 20 years, even longer in rare cases).

Another alternative would be to find "good" homes for two of the kittens and keep just one as a companion for Kiko. But before you can do any of that you would need to catch the mother as well as the kittens, which might not be an easy task. Catching a cat that is afraid and doesn't want to be caught can be extremely difficult and if you don't have a proper cage or trap to lure her into, she could put up a big fight and cause a lot of damage to you with her claws and teeth. I would strongly advise against giving the mother anything to sedate her. As cpietra16 said, that would be very risky to her health and might even cause her death.

Do you have any animal rescues close enough to you that might be able to offer some help or advise or perhaps lend out a trap? I found the following website for a rescue in Kuwait:

[url]http://www.felinefriendssharjah.com/

EDIT: Oops, upon looking further, it appears I am mistaken about the above shelter/rescue being located in Kuwait. Sorry, the link to it mentioned Kuwait but it looks like it is part of the United Arab Emirates. I don't know my geography of your part of the world very well. In any case, maybe there are some other rescues/shelters in your area that may be able to help or advise you. Some may have TNR (trap, neuter, release) programs as the above one does. For the wellbeing of the mother she should be vet checked and spayed before being released back to where she was found, if that's what you do. Otherwise she will be back in the same situation in a few months trying to feed yet another litter of homeless kittens. A rescue or shelter that has a TNR program might do this free of charge. Also, if the mother turns out to be not so feral (adoptable) a rescue might be able to assist in finding her a home as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sew-sew-steve View Post
anyhow, im not gonna let kiko come in contact with any of the other cats until i take the mother away, so they would be seperated. and by the time i can take the mother away, i would have vaccinated kiko, declawed her, and dewormed her as well. possibly even ask for hair shedding pills or something of that sort.
I hope you are not forgetting about the importance of also having Kiko spayed as soon as she is old enough as well as spaying or neutering any other kittens that you choose to keep. Otherwise four kittens would very quickly become several dozen.

Anyway, these are some of my thoughts. I'm sure catlover2 or MyBirdIsEvil or some of the others will be on later to give you some more helpful advice and suggestions.
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Last edited by mikischo; June 6th, 2010 at 04:31 PM.
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Old June 6th, 2010, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sew-sew-steve View Post
anyhow, im not gonna let kiko come in contact with any of the other cats until i take the mother away, so they would be seperated. and by the time i can take the mother away, i would have vaccinated kiko, declawed her, and dewormed her aswell. possibly even ask for hair shedding pills or something of that sort.
I know this is getting a bit away from the current issue which is "what to do about stray mama cat and her babies" but I just noticed the "declawed" part and really felt the need to mention it now. Please think long and hard before having this done to Kiko. Unfortunately declawing (amputation of the last joint of the cat's toes) is still allowed in many countries but thankfully more and more countries are recognizing this as a cruel and inhumane practice and are banning it. Declawing is misleading word because it can lead one to believe that only the claws are removed. Unfortunately this is not the case.
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"The animals share with us the privilege of having a soul." -Pythagoras
"The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different." -Hippocrates
"Let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." -Jack Layton
"Be the change you want to see in the world" -Gandhi

Kitties: Punky (13), Tweeky (6), and Sassy (7)

SweetMickey 1991 to May 24, 2009

Last edited by mikischo; June 6th, 2010 at 07:57 PM.
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Old June 6th, 2010, 10:14 PM
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You asked for opinions, so here goes.....first of all declawing is cruel and inhumane. Please do not have this done to Kiko. Cats use their claws not only to remove the old sheath from their claws but escpecially to condition the muscles and tendons in their front legs and shoulders. Stretching and pulling gives them pleasure to exercise in this way. A declawed cat's shoulders feels like a old 17 y.o. cat that has lost all it's muscle tone. Some declawed cats become biters as that's their only defense.

As for the poor emaciated mom and 3 kittens. IMHO not a good idea for you to try and catch her and her kittens......the only thing you should do is contact a humane society or pet rescue organization and let them trap the cat and kittens and let them look after them. Even by continuing to feed momcat, she will only have more kittens in another few mos., then what? adding to the homeless cat population, and her kittens will continue the same way..... Even if you were successful in catching her with the kittens, you would then have terrific expenses of looking after them all. You asked, and I think it's better to stick to your plan of getting Kiko vet checked, wormed, and spayed. BTW, good job on the nail clipping.
When you have done that, then think about saving a rescue kitten for a friend for Kiko that's already looking for a home that has already has been vetted, shots and spayed.
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Last edited by catlover2; June 6th, 2010 at 10:18 PM.
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Old June 7th, 2010, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikischo View Post
Unfortunately declawing (amputation of the last joint of the cat's toes) is still allowed in many countries but thankfully more and more countries are recognizing this as a cruel and inhumane practice and are banning it.
Against the law in Australia, thank goodness.
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Old June 7th, 2010, 09:41 AM
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i used to feel horrible about clipping sew sew's claws when he came accross other cats, it felt like i took half of his protection. i wouldnt have declawed a cat if i was gonnaend up leave it outdoors. but that was before i knew that they cut off their toes thats sad.

i guess ill just keep trimming kiko's nails.

i figured by the time they get old enough to be seperated, i would have kiko spayed/neutered/vaccinated/dewormed etc..etc...

i guess ill only take one other cat for now, and later on when i have more leverage i guess i can take one in, thats how it works right?

im getting too ahead of myself i g lol. but i want kiko to have a playmate. so i guess ill take the orange one, and if i can (i dont know if i will) spay the mother cat.

the thing is, i wanted to earn the trust of the babies, which means i would need the mother around. otherwise it would be difficult to catch them alone, and plus i wanted to take advantage of their age and get them used to human contact, living in a house, etc..etc...

catlover it just doesnt work like that over here
if the cats over populate the area, and many complaints are issued, THEN the authorities come and either relocate or just put them to sleep.

theres dogs around here that are shot because they are a hazard to the people.the government issues a dispatch to certain squads to go and shoot the dogs with proper weapons and such. not like they take shotguns or hand guns and brutally take it down(felt the need to say that).

as much as i love dogs, i cant dissagree. since dogs are pack animals, and very territorial, so if a human walks by they could just attack in a flash, i've heard many stories from friends about being near the desert and having dogs attack. i think catching them and putting them to sleep is better, but i really have no control over how they take care of it.

anyhow, i went a little off topic.

if i were to call a shelter or rescue group and ask for someone to come pick up the cat, i wouldnt get anyone to come and pick up the cat.

i'd have to take the mother cat there, and i dont even know where the area is.

catlover
: When you have done that, then think about saving a rescue kitten for a friend for Kiko that's already looking for a home that has already has been vetted, shots and spayed.

as much as i hate to say it, doesnt work that way either. its not as often as it is in canada tthat you come accross someone with kittens that have had their medical checkup and whatnot, or even their mother for that matter. its more like "this cat down the street just gave birth to babies" or "a cat gave birth right outside our house"
=/

i respect your opinions though, thanks guys.

ill keep you updated.
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Last edited by Sew-sew-steve; June 7th, 2010 at 09:47 AM.
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Old June 7th, 2010, 04:21 PM
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I understand things are different in a country like Kuwait where dogs may be considered "unclean" for religious reasons so may be treated a lot differently than in this country. But to say there are no kittens available for adoption is not true. There are rescue kittens to adopt in Kuwait that have been neutered/spayed, shots, vetted (Donation is $30KD for males, $40KD females mixed breed cats). http://www.paws-kuwait.org/index.php?aboutus This would be less expensive than getting one "off the street" and having to pay for all the expenses yourself. Hope you consider that.

Check out the following kittens: Zita, Gary , Valentine, Nala or Soda. Any one of these could be a suitable playmate for Kiko.
http://www.paws-kuwait.org/adopt/thumbnails.php?album=2

What I don't understand is why if you caught the momacat that you would not get her spayed? or just let her go free again after she raised the kittens? None of that makes any sense to me at all! Sorry, but maybe I will have to "call you crazy"? I give up.
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Last edited by catlover2; June 7th, 2010 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Additional adoption info.
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Old June 8th, 2010, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catlover2 View Post
I understand things are different in a country like Kuwait where dogs may be considered "unclean" for religious reasons so may be treated a lot differently than in this country. But to say there are no kittens available for adoption is not true. There are rescue kittens to adopt in Kuwait that have been neutered/spayed, shots, vetted (Donation is $30KD for males, $40KD females mixed breed cats). http://www.paws-kuwait.org/index.php?aboutus This would be less expensive than getting one "off the street" and having to pay for all the expenses yourself. Hope you consider that.

ah-ah-ah thats not what i ment. dogs are animals, and in my religion an animal is not to be treated badly no matter what, god forbids it. its because an overload of dogs becomes a saftey hazard and im sure many of the people here who know dogs know this. they are very territorial animals and can be dangerous when at large. its the stray dogs that are gunned down. not dogs with collars or human owned. i dont agree with them being gunned down, i'd rather they are tranquilized and then put to sleep or taken to a wildlife resort, but like i said thats not in my control. please do not take the link 14+kittens posted as legitamet!

Check out the following kittens: Zita, Gary , Valentine, Nala or Soda. Any one of these could be a suitable playmate for Kiko.
http://www.paws-kuwait.org/adopt/thumbnails.php?album=2

What I don't understand is why if you caught the momacat that you would not get her spayed? or just let her go free again after she raised the kittens? None of that makes any sense to me at all! Sorry, but maybe I will have to "call you crazy"? I give up.
if i caught the mother cat, that would be different story. i said i might just end up taking the orange one, and not taking them all with me, as in catching it there, the mother cat would be a hassle. sorry for not being unclear.


anyhow, horrible update

i have to give kiko up. my mom's allergies are too strong for her to handle. shes telling me to take her away.

so i guess all plans have come to a very abrupt hault.
man this really sucks.

im gonna try and take her to animal friends.
maaaaaaaaaaaaan this really sucks.

dont know or have anyone who wants to take her.
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Old June 7th, 2010, 04:26 PM
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SSSteve,I actually think you should try to catch the mother and her babies,if you can.
If the mother is skinny and starving,she more than likely has no milk for her babies
She would probably be happy to feel safe and secure in your courtyard,being fed every day.
That does not mean you are going to end up with six cats,but you would save the life of mama and her babies.
If you were here,of course they could all go to a shelter,but you are in Kuwait,where a mama cat and her kittens probably would be more of a nuisance and not worth saving.
I could definitely be wrong,but maybe if you put the kittens in a carrier the mother would follow???

As for Kiko,like the others have said,absolutely no declawing,I could think of not many worse things you could do to a cat and little Kiko certainly deserves better,right
I am thinking,you,like so many other people don't really know what declawing means,but it truly is an awful,cruel thing to do.
As she gets older and not as wild as a little kitten,her claws will not bother you at all,my 3 cats have their claws,if I would find the need to remove part of their toes,I would not have cats at all.
Anyway Steve,I love how a young man like you are concerned about cats in distress and want to help,hopefully you will be able to help mama cat,every little life on the earth is important
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Old June 8th, 2010, 01:46 AM
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mikischo mikischo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sew-sew-steve;
i figured by the time they get old enough to be seperated, i would have kiko spayed/neutered/vaccinated/dewormed etc..etc...

i guess ill only take one other cat for now, and later on when i have more leverage i guess i can take one in, thats how it works right?

im getting too ahead of myself i g lol. but i want kiko to have a playmate. so i guess ill take the orange one, and if i can (i dont know if i will) spay the mother cat.

the thing is, i wanted to earn the trust of the babies, which means i would need the mother around. otherwise it would be difficult to catch them alone, and plus i wanted to take advantage of their age and get them used to human contact, living in a house, etc..etc....
I can understand where you are coming from on this. This mama cat and especially the three little kitties have touched your heart and you want at least try to give the kittens a better life than having to fend for themselves on the streets. Most or all of us here on pets.ca would not be able to look the other way either. What you are saying about the importance of the kitties having human contact when they are still young makes perfect sense to me. If cats are born outside to stray or feral cats and don't have contact with humans before they reach a certain age (about two or three months or so, I believe) it can be difficult if not impossible to gain their trust. If you go ahead with this, I am glad you have decided to keep just one. Don't bite off more than you can chew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sew-sew-steve;
catlover it just doesnt work like that over here
if the cats over populate the area, and many complaints are issued, THEN the authorities come and either relocate or just put them to sleep.
From what I have read your government's method of putting cats to sleep is very unpleasant and relocation does not solve the problem. Other colonies of cats will simply move in to fill the vacancy. Trap, vaccinate, neuter/spay, return (TVNR or TNR) is the only thing that has proven to work for cats that are too feral to be adoptable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sew-sew-steve;
if i were to call a shelter or rescue group and ask for someone to come pick up the cat, i wouldnt get anyone to come and pick up the cat.

i'd have to take the mother cat there, and i dont even know where the area is.
I'm sure you know what the situation is there better than we do. I did a lot of googling hoping to find some resources for you that you might not be aware of, but from what I have read it seems that the only two shelters are PAWS and Animal Friends League and you are right. They do not have the resources to come out and rescue cats or dogs and they rely on people to bring the animals to them. I could not find a lot of information on PAWS policy on what animals they will and will not accept but Animal Friends League gives quite a bit of detail on the following page:

http://www.animalfriendskuwait.org/faq#

Here is part of what they say:


"9. What do I do if I find a stray animal?

Animal Friends relies upon citizen volunteers to rescue animals. We do not have paid staff able to conduct rescues of stray animals, so we kindly ask you to help us help the animals you may find. All we generally ask is that you collect the animal and bring it to our shelter. If this is impossible for a valid reason, we will try to come up with another solution. Please be careful when rescuing any animal. Dogs should have wagging tails or be relatively immobile, while cats can be rescued using a towel to protect your self. For information regarding what kinds of animals we will accept, please see the question “What animals do we rescue?” If an animal is severely injured, it should be brought directly to a veterinarian (see the “Resources” link to find a list of veterinarians).

10. What animals do we rescue?

Animal Friends is a non-governmental, charitable organization. We therefore do not act as animal control. In most cases, we rely upon concerned citizens to bring injured and stray animals to our facility in Wafra. There are some exceptions to this rule, such as when the animal is truly dangerous or severely injured, so that moving the animal would result in undue pain. We use the guidelines below to prioritize rescue operations within budgetary, personnel, and space restrictions (priority is given in order from 1 through 7):

1.Animals that are actively being starved, withheld from water, beaten, burned, buried, poisoned, shot, have been run over, or are otherwise in severe distress.
2.Animals that are not wild but are lost or abandoned pets.
3.Animals that are living in cages or are tied, chained, or otherwise have their mobility limited and are living without adequate shade, water, food, and human attention. (We have limited capabilities in this category that are within the rule of law).
4.Animals living near major roads or that are otherwise at risk of being run over or poisoned by the government.
5.Litters of puppies.
6.Litters of kittens, if and only if it is confirmed their mother has abandoned them for more than 24 hours. People should not intervene with kittens unless they are in imminent danger. It is likely their mother will return after finding food.
7.Wild packs of stray dogs.

We do not rescue or accept street cats that are reasonably healthy. Animal population control is the responsibility of the government and the overpopulation of cats is beyond our capabilities.
"


Quote:
Originally Posted by catlover2 View Post
What I don't understand is why if you caught the momacat that you would not get her spayed? or just let her go free again after she raised the kittens?
I agree that it is extremely important that this poor mama is, at the very least, spayed. Otherwise in a few short months she will be in rougher shape than she is now and bringing more homeless kitties into the world to a sad life on the streets. We cannot save them all. Even here in Canada we have far too many strays and ferals and we only have the resources to save a fraction of them. That is one of the many reasons spaying and neutering is so very important.

In my opinion, if you do trap mama and babies, the best outcome would be if you were able to get the shelter to accept mama and two of her babies once the third kitty no longer needs her. This way mama and babies would be spayed/neutered, vetted, vaccinated and kept safe until they found good homes. If she proves to be reasonably tame, do they need to know that she was a stray you found on the street? Also they did state that they will not accept street cats that are reasonably healthy. It doesn't sound to me like this mama is too healthy. Even if you had to pay a surrender fee it would be far less costly than doing all this yourself.

Well it looks like I have written a book but it is late and I'm too tired to figure out how to shorten it.

Keep us posted.
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"The animals share with us the privilege of having a soul." -Pythagoras
"The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different." -Hippocrates
"Let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." -Jack Layton
"Be the change you want to see in the world" -Gandhi

Kitties: Punky (13), Tweeky (6), and Sassy (7)

SweetMickey 1991 to May 24, 2009
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Old June 8th, 2010, 08:35 AM
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mikischo mikischo is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
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I came across this email that someone in Kuwait had posted on their weblog. She had received this email from an individual from Animal Friends League when she made inquries about what to do about all the strays that were around her home.

"Of course, PAWS never replied back, I don’t know if they’re THAT busy or they don’t take this seriously! A lovely lady from Animal Friends League replied back to her with this:
This is an ongoing problem in Kuwait in general and relocating them is not the answer because when you move one population into that of another, you have territory disputes and they end up hurting each other. There are far too many cats for us to help. I live in South Surra and the problem is far worse in older areas such as Shuwaikh. This problem has to be dealt with on a much larger scale and we are trying to work with the government but a solution is not in sight at this time. Although you are feeding them because you care for them, it is not always the best thing to do. Our trash bins are full of food and by feeding them and not sterilizing them so they are unable to breed, you are in fact making the problem worse. Let me explain. Basically by offering them food regularly, you are making them healthier and stronger which means they can breed more often and more of their kittens survive making the population get larger. You also teach them to rely on you and those younger ones that never had to learn to look for food are now completely relying on you and if you at some point needed to move, those cats would suffer very badly. If you want to manage this colony of cats, you need to first sterilize (desex so they cannot have babies) them then only feed them twice per week so that they can continue to hunt for their own food and rely on themselves. I know this is not the answer you were looking for but we have a lot of experience with this problem and it really is the best thing you can do for the cats. If you have any further questions please call me ########"
The above email sums up the situation with stray cats very well, not only in Kuwait, but elsewhere in the world, including Canada as well. It stresses the importance of spay/neuter. By feeding strays without sterilizing them you are doing more harm than good and making their situation worse in the long run.

catlover2's suggestion that you get an already vetted spayed/neutered cat from a shelter is, in my opinion as well, the best solution for you and the cheapest solution in the long run. However, at the same time I can fully understand your not wanting to turn your back on these kitties. I wouldn't be able to either and it would be wonderful if you are able to help them. The question is, do you have the time, energy and financial resources to handle all this. You haven't even been able to get Kiko vetted yet and she should be your first concern. There are too many homeless kitties in this world and we can't save them all.
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The animals share with us the privilege of having a soul." -Pythagoras
"The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different." -Hippocrates
"Let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." -Jack Layton
"Be the change you want to see in the world" -Gandhi

Kitties: Punky (13), Tweeky (6), and Sassy (7)

SweetMickey 1991 to May 24, 2009

Last edited by mikischo; June 8th, 2010 at 08:45 AM. Reason: Typo
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