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Old January 23rd, 2010, 11:24 AM
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GoldenAngel GoldenAngel is offline
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Unhappy Acanthomatous Epulid - I don't want to remove half his jaw!

Hi! I'm a new member and am causing myself too many sleepless nights prowling the internet looking for info and advice on behalf of my deeply beloved Golden Retriever Teddy (8 years old). He had a biopsy on a small pink fleshy mass behind his lower left canine tooth which came back as acanthomatous ameloblastoma (a benign but locally invasive tumor that can invade bone). I went to an oncologist yesterday who admits that its small, but suggests radical surgical excision which would mean he would lose the lower canine and a chunk of his jaw because they have to use wide margins when they remove it (cost of $4-5K and two nights in hospital). I am devastated. I can't imagine him away from me for 2 nights as he was traumatized when he had to be away for 3 hours when he had a ear hematoma drained. The vet said he would win the award for most dramatic/tragic performance at the vet... The thought of leaving him for 2 nights makes me physically ill with worry to imagine it. I have read about radiation or bleomycin injections (which the oncologist doesn't do) and I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with this kind of tumor and what they have chosen to do and if they have any advice or recommendations.... Right now this mass isn't bothering him at all - it's not bleeding, not affecting his ability to eat or mood etc. and I am hesitant at taking off half his jaw for a benign tumor that isn't affecting his quality of life right now...
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Old January 23rd, 2010, 12:25 PM
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hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
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Can you get a second opinion, GoldenAngel? Maybe at a veterinary teaching hospital? It may give you no new options, but even that may help you in your decision. As for the two nights' stay, it might not be as traumatic for him as you fear. Procedures that require anesthetic leave the dog a bit out of it and more lethargic than usual for a day or two. Sometimes I think our dogs don't even remember having been gone.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I wish you all the best with Teddy and I hope you'll keep us posted on his progress.
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Old January 23rd, 2010, 01:56 PM
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Welcome to the forum, GoldenAngel and so sorry to hear about your boy Teddy.

I would also get a second opinion before making any decisions.

Good luck and please keep us updated.
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Old January 23rd, 2010, 02:52 PM
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GoldenAngel GoldenAngel is offline
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Thanks for the suggestions so far.... Unfortunately that is the only oncologist in Toronto. I will see if my vet can refer me to someone at University of Guelph as that is the only place in the province that does radiation for dogs. Very difficult decision making... I feel like it haunts all my thoughts all day and all night... hard to concentrate on work or even feeling social... =-(

I think because I don't see any negative effects of this tumor and the fact that its technically benign... its hard to feel motivated to rush such an extreme surgery....

It seems like a painful procedure, and afterwards his tongue will be hanging out on one side without the tooth/jaw to keep it inside the mouth. I have no idea about drooling and/or the top canine having nothing to counter it down below.

I'm sure the anesthesia will be heavier for this - but the oncologist said it will probably take less than an hour to perform surgery. When he had his hematoma drained, he was at the vet for 3 hours and they said he came around from anesthesia faster than expected and he was crying hysterically and I could come get him early if I was able to watch him... which I did.... Does nothing to settle the nerves... He is a particularly emotionally needy dog and we are both exceptionally attached to each other... (he's my only dog).
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Old January 23rd, 2010, 07:29 PM
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Myka Myka is offline
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Would it be an option to simply remove the tumor as best as possible without damaging the jaw, and wait to see if it comes back? If it comes back then maybe you could do the radical surgery then? $4-5000 is a lot of money too, and as much as I would be loathe to put a price on my own dog's life, I wouldn't be able to pay that big of a bill. With your dog already being a senior, maybe a less drastic approach as I suggested above may be a reasonable plan...
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Old January 23rd, 2010, 07:35 PM
adurst1 adurst1 is offline
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Thats really tough, i really hope everything works out, I dont know much about radiation and tumors but wouldnt it be possible to remove the tumor without the taking out part of the jaw. For example, my friend (not a dog) but still, had a small bump on his tounge, turned out to be a tumor(benign), and was removed without any major damage to his tounge. I know its like comparing apples to oranges but just a thought. Hope all turns out well.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 02:26 AM
Great Pyrenees Great Pyrenees is offline
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Alternative Remedies

I have a Great Pyrenees that has been similarly diagnosed. A week ago we began herbal treatments with two teaspoons of Cota mixed with yogurt taken twice per day. Our dog is a working farm dog. There is a related study where Cota reduced tobacco induced tumors on earth worms. I am interested in any other herbal remedies.
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Old June 30th, 2013, 04:18 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Pyrenees View Post
I have a Great Pyrenees that has been similarly diagnosed. A week ago we began herbal treatments with two teaspoons of Cota mixed with yogurt taken twice per day. Our dog is a working farm dog. There is a related study where Cota reduced tobacco induced tumors on earth worms. I am interested in any other herbal remedies.
I am so very sorry to hear this news

I do not know much about that specific cancer. I know that many of these cancers do respond to things like IP6 or curcumin.

There are about 3 posts in this thread here that talk about diet and misc supplements for cancer: http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/...view#Post32999 This may or may not be helpful.

Of particular note, might be Sander's story there, who lived a very long time with a cancer in the jaw, though I believe it was a different type: http://www.cinnamondog.com/

There are a few threads here that talk about different supplements, though it's a different type of cancer: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=44407&page=16 (starting around 1/2013)

and here: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=82502

Please keep us posted....
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Old July 6th, 2013, 01:40 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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Ran across this mast cell tumor protocol that says it also hrinks epuli. Same thing? I dunno, but it might help...

http://www.bavariasboxers.com/cancer.htm
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Old July 10th, 2013, 04:01 PM
irishgirl1 irishgirl1 is offline
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Red face Loki

Hi,
Not long back from the vets, have just been told that my adored dog, Loki, has acanthomatous ameloblastoma . I found this site whilst looking up a bit more information about it, as basically my vet said that it was quite rare, removal of part of his jaw was one option. Very interested in the alternatives, though at present (as he has just had a lump removed) we are going to wait and see if another one grows. The vets think that Loki taking Atopica for a skin condition can make the acanthomatous worse, but if he stops taking it then he (and I) go crazy with his scratching.
Loki is 11, a chocolate labrador and I would be devastated if anything happened to him, but I am worried about putting him through such major surgery at his age. Has anyone else had a dog of his age go through this? Any help appreciated Thanks!!
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Old July 14th, 2013, 05:09 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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Have you read the options given in the two posts right before yours?
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