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Old August 15th, 2009, 11:10 AM
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HELP ME! I am losing my mind over cat that won't stop peeing

Hey all, it's definitely been awhile since I posted, but I need some serious advice concerning my male cat Angus. I've posted about his urinary issues before, but these past 2 weeks or so have been a living hell for us.

He always urinates on piles of clothes, but it's pretty random and infrequent, we find the pee and clean it up , no problem. Maybe a few months go by then he does it again. One offs, here and there. Once in a while he goes on a bender and pees several times in a few weeks. Every time his urinalysis and other tests come back normal.

About 2 weeks ago he started peeing on stuff but it was every few days, we let it go for a week or so. Then it was daily, and he moved on to more expensive things to clean/get rid of. He pissed on the guest room bed (since we rarely go in ther it took a while to realize that he had done it, and several times at that) and then our bed while we were at work, he has never peed on anything but dirty laundry.

Off to the vet we go on Monday, they keep him overnight to get a good urine sample, do other tests... Everything comes back completely normal, no reason to think he has an infection/crystals. Vet suggests idiopathic FLUTD/behavioural issues.

Today I found a large urine spot on my new sofa. I pull off the cushions to realize that he's peed there several times. Everything smells like urine, no matter how much I clean. I am seriously losing my mind and thoughts of getting rid of him are pushing forward in my head.

Here's what we've been doing:
-wet food
-feliway diffuser on every floor, and by the litter box. we spray his collar down with the feliway spray on a weekly basis.
-lots of toys and activities, catnip, windows to look out of.
-has very private litterbox room. We have 2 boxes (we have 2 cats), we'd add a 3rd, but only one box really gets used, they seems to like using the same box.
-gets lots of attention, he's a very affectionate lap cat.
-I've been trying to eliminate urine smells all over the place with Nature's Miracle, Vinegar, baking soda, borax, everything I can think of to prevent him from going back to the same spots, especially furniture.


My only idea about his behaviour is that he is very focused/obsessed with going outside, he waits at the door when we leave and come home and tries very hard to escape. We often allow him to lounge on the front porch supervised for a few minutes, but inevitable he tries to bolt, so we bring him in. We sometimes put him on a harness and tether as well. He meows incessantly at the door when we're home or if we're outside doing something. Often it seems that when we haven't let him go outside when we've been in and out during the day, that's when he pees. ie: I was out washing the car for a few hours, while he meows at the door for me, I came in and discovered the pee on the sofa

Should we allow him to be an outside cat? Will this solve our problem? I'm just so nervous to do it, there are too many dangers. But if this will end the peeing...


I'm sorry this is so long, I am literally writing this through tears of frustration and my hands are just flying across the keyboard.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 11:46 AM
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aww Stacer I can't imagine what you are going through. I too would be starting to think of other options if my cat was peeing on everything. Cat pee is NOT a pleasant smell!

I don't know much about cats but a few questions popped into my mind
- what is Angus' background? Was he a stray cat before you got him? How old was he when you got him?
- what is his relationship with the other cat in the house??

Sending good and hope that you can find a solution soon!
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Old August 15th, 2009, 12:03 PM
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Oh gosh, that is incredibly frustrating. I would also be leaning towards idiopathic cystitis, which is often influenced by stress. And yes, it's very likely related to Angus wanting to go outside, and/or to his relationships with other critters in the house. It can be hard to find a treatment plan that works in these situations but here is a link to a very thorough article on the subject: NON-OBSTRUCTIVE IDIOPATHIC/INTERSTITIAL CYSTITIS IN CATS: THINKING OUTSIDE THE (LITTER) BOX

Here are some quotes:

Quote:
The neuroendocrine abnormalities in cats with recurrent idiopathic cystitis suggest a sensitized response to stress indicating that these cats may have greater needs for enriched surroundings than do healthy cats.
Quote:
Intercat conflict commonly is present when multiple cats are housed indoors together and health problems are present. Conflict among cats can develop because of threats to the cat’s perception of their overall status in the home, from other animals in the home, or from outside cats. The goal is to reduce conflict to a more manageable level for the cats involved. Treatment for conflict between indoor cats involves providing a separate set of resources for each cat, preferably in locations where the cats can use them without being seen by other cats.
Is there anyway you can provide a safe outdoor enclosure for Angus to spend some time in? http://habitathaven.com/cat-enclosures.html
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Old August 15th, 2009, 01:46 PM
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I was going to suggest the same thing, about an outdoor enclosure.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 01:49 PM
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You could also PM Toonces re: outdoor cat enclosures. She has a great one that her kitties really love. And I'm sure 14+ will have some insight on that subject too!

(Nice to see you back!)
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Old August 15th, 2009, 02:07 PM
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I am sorry about the problems! Sounds so incredibly frustrating.

A couple of thoughts on FLUTD.

Approximately 70% of cats with FLUTD will positively respond to canned food versus dry food. The increased water intake can help reduce the concentration of the urine which can reduce the inflammation of the bladder. Addition of water to the wet food and use of a cat fountain can also be beneficial.

Also DHA (an omega 3 fatty acid found in fish oils) is thought to help reduce inflammation of the bladder wall. For this reason it is added into some prescription urinary cat foods.

Cosequin is occasionally used with anecdotal success. This comes from human medicine, where some women with non-bacterial bladder wall inflammation have shown to their bladder walls deficient in a glucosamine like connective tissue and respond to a supplement close to cosequin. For this reason, some cats are placed on cosequin. Cat specific testing has not been done to my knowledge.

If FLUTD is the cause, then some precription medications can help. Some that are used include amitryptilline, prozac and prednisolone.

I hope this helps.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 02:06 PM
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Couple other things I just thought of: you might want to consider adding Cosequin to Angus' wet food. It can help strengthen the lining of the bladder: http://nutramaxanimalhealth.com/Prod...-for-cats.aspx

Quote:
Some veterinarians also recommend Cosequin to help support urinary bladder health. The inner lining of the bladder wall is protected by a layer, which contains some of the same compounds as are found in cartilage. This layer prevents urine and the waste products contained within it from seeping into and damaging the lining. Since the low molecular weight chondroitin sulfate found in Cosequin is available to more than just cartilage cells, the bladder may use it to help support this protective layer.
Also marshmallow root powder and/or cornsilk (from a health food store) can help sooth any bladder or urinary tract inflammation.

And lastly, pain meds may be something to think about, although these are very tricky to use in cats. Cystitis is quite painful and a vicious circle of cystitis causing stress which exacerbates the cystitis can be difficult to break. Here's another quote: http://www.catinfo.org/#Common_Felin..._Ties_to_Diet_

Quote:
Diet is not the only issue involved with cystitis but it is an important one and one that we can control. Stress is also thought to play a very significant role in cystitis and even cats that are fed a 100 percent canned food diet may experience bouts of cystitis. This is a very frustrating disease to deal with and one that the veterinary community does not have all the answers for. What we do know is that decreasing stress and increasing the water content of the diet are the most important management issues to address. The water content of the diet is easy to control. The stress issue is another matter and is not always easy to address since cats can be very sensitive and are often 'silent' in their stress.

Cystitis can be extremely painful and it is very important to address pain management in these cats. Remember: pain = stress and we are trying to minimize the stress in these patients. Buprinex is a good choice for a pain medication. This is superior to Torbugesic which has been used for pain management in the cat in the past. (Burprinex is a prescription medication that you must get from your veterinarian.) Unfortunately, many veterinarians overlook pain medications as a very important part of the treatment of this common feline problem.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 02:09 PM
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We adopted Angus and Finn at around 8 weeks old (they're 4 now), so we've had them for almost their entire lives. Angus and Finn have a good relationship, they often sleep together and groom each other.

We do have a dog, Skylar, who is a relatively new addition (we've had her for1.5 yrs). For the most part the dog and cats ignore each other, but if the cats start to play and chase, Skylar tries to join in, which sends the cats running for the highest point in the room. This could be part of the problem, and we do try to prevent Skylar's chase instinct.

SCM, I quickly read through the article you provided and I see some things that I can implement; change the type of litter, perhaps be more vigilant with litter cleanliness (we're pretty good, but I guess we can always be better). Find some better games and toys for Angus. I also think I may put the baby gate up again so that the cats can have a dedicated area of the house away from the dog.

Unfortunately due to the type of townhouse we have (no backyard) we can't build an enclosure for him. I went out and bought a new harness today and may have to spend more time outside with him.

The vet suggested some meds (antidepressants, I think). But according to that article, the effectiveness is hit or miss and can cause worsening in some cases.

This may be a horrible thing, but it was also suggested to me at the vet's office by one of the techs. Put Angus in a bathroom with food water and litter for a week so he's forced to use the litterbox. As of a few hours ago, I've done this. Perhaps doing this just when we're not home would be better? I'm still very angry right now and can't really stand the sight of him, and he's probably safer in there right now as I'm cleaning the mess.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 02:10 PM
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Wow alot of people have posted since I started responding to the first 2 posts
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Old August 15th, 2009, 02:13 PM
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Thanks for the responses. I'll try the cosequin and ask my vet about some of the pain meds. I'm willing to try anything.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacer View Post
-feliway diffuser on every floor, and by the litter box. we spray his collar down with the feliway spray on a weekly basis.
I'm not sure why I didn't notice this before but for some reason it popped into my head as I was getting up this morning. The last place you want to put a Feliway diffuser is near the litter box! They're supposed to go in areas that you DON'T want a cat to pee. Facial pheromones, which are the happy friendly ones that Feliway mimics, have opposite intentions from the territorial "aggressive" pheromones that are associated with urine and feces. This is why you'll rarely see a cat rubbing its chin on things near the litter box. It could partly be that Angus is now confused by the facial pheromones existing where only butt-end pheromones should be. I would move that diffuser to a location where Angus is currently peeing, like in your bedroom, and I'd also stop putting any on his collar. You want the pheromones to be site specific in this case.

If I think of anything else, I'll let you know.
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Last edited by sugarcatmom; August 18th, 2009 at 07:03 AM. Reason: changed wording
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Old August 18th, 2009, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
I'm not sure why I didn't notice this before but for some reason it popped into my head as I was getting up this morning. The last place you want to put a Feliway diffuser is near the litter box! They're supposed to go in areas that you DON'T want a cat to pee. Facial pheromones, which are the happy friendly ones that Feliway mimics, have opposite intentions from the territorial "aggressive" pheromones that are associated with urine and feces. This is why you'll rarely see a cat rubbing its chin on things near the litter box. It could partly be that Angus is now confused by the facial pheromones existing where only butt-end pheromones should be. I would move that diffuser to a location where Angus is currently peeing, like in your bedroom, and I'd also stop putting any on his collar. You want the pheromones to be site specific in this case.

If I think of anything else, I'll let you know.
Jeez, that's a good point! I'll move it right away. The litterboxes are in the laundry room on opposite sides.

I just got off the phone with my vet, she's trying to figure out the proper dosage for the Cosequin. She's also going to prescribe some Metacam. She wasn't sure that the Buprinex was available in Canada, but was going to look into it. She also suggested a homeopathic remedy called Cantharis which might be effective.

I'm going to pick up the Metacam tomorrow. Has anyone used the Metacam for cystitis? If so, what has the effectiveness been?

Growler, when I had him in last week they only did the regular urinary work up, no blood work. I could ask about it when I go in tomorrow morning.

Melinda, he has never once peed outside when we've had him out. He rolls around on the front porch like he's in ecstasy, chews the plants in my garden, then tries to visit the neighbours. We've been buying catgrass and my mom brought us a shallow rubbermaid bin with sod in it for him. He loves to eat grass, so we thought this might appease him to a certain degree.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 05:01 PM
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She's also going to prescribe some Metacam. She wasn't sure that the Buprinex was available in Canada, but was going to look into it.
Buprenex (aka buprenorphine) is available in Canada, but maybe not through normal veterinary sources. I think my vet said she gets it compounded at a human pharmacy? One thing I do know is that it's quite pricey.

As for Metacam, I'm very leary of using it in cats. While there are lots of cats that do use it without issue, it has been known to cause or exacerbate kidney damage. I'd use the smallest dose possible, and if you plan to use it for any length of time, have blood work and a urinalysis done regularly (like every 3 months).
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Old August 18th, 2009, 06:40 PM
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He strikes again!!!!:sad:
He did it on the plastic cover on the sofa. WTF!?!?! I think he's getting desperate since there're no soft surfaces that aren't covered in plastic or behind closed doors. At least he didn't ruin anything this time. I sat down and wrote out all the pee incidences in the last week and there were only 2 days where he didn't pee on something, that we know of.

After my last post I decided to google metacam and definitely didn't like what I found. I emailed my vet to let her know I'm not comfortable with Metacam and if we could find another safer drug.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 07:03 PM
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He strikes again!!!!:sad:
Oh geez. What a little stinker. Any way you can put a litter box upstairs in a main room somewhere? I know it's not so appealing for the humans, but I'm wondering if he's associating something negative in the laundry room with urinating.

As usual, I have a ton of links on this subject. For your reading pleasure:
http://www.catsinternational.org/art...box_users.html (make sure to click the 2 other links at the bottom of this page)
http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/inappro-elim.html
http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/inappro-elim2.html

This might sound harsh and I don't know if it would just end up adding to Angus' stress, but some people have success confining their cat to a small room like a bathroom for a day or 2, along with their litter box, bed, and food. This often forces them to use the box while they're in there, which can be enough to reset their psyche on the subject. If you do choose this option, I would spend lots of time with Angus in the room so he doesn't feel like he's being punished. Also offering a couple choices of litter types (like one clay, one pine etc) in 2 separate boxes to see if he has a preference might be a useful exercise.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 12:58 AM
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She also suggested a homeopathic remedy called Cantharis which might be effective.

Growler, when I had him in last week they only did the regular urinary work up, no blood work. I could ask about it when I go in tomorrow morning.
Personally I would go ahead with the remedy, definately skip the metacam, I would even wait on meds to see how the Cantharis does but that's just my

Indications of use for Cantharis (Urine - Intolerable Urging and tenesmus. Nephritis with bloody urine. Violent paroxysms of cutting and burning in whole renal region, with painful urging to urinate; bloody urine, by Drops. Intolerable tenesmus; cutting before, during, and after urine. Urine scalds him, and is passed drop by drop. Constant desire to urinate.)

You might also ask about Vesicaria (Urinary and kidney remedy. Smarting, burning sensation along urethra and in bladder with frequent desire to void urine often with strangury. Cystitis irritable bladder)

Usually given one or the other not both at the same time.

I must say I'm really surprised there was no blood work done I wouldn't be surprised to find a kidney infection being part of the problem

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I sat down and wrote out all the pee incidences in the last week and there were only 2 days where he didn't pee on something, that we know of.
Can you think of anything no matter how insignificant that was different those 2 days from the rest? Was one of those 2 days the day your DH came back from his weekend away?
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 11:00 AM
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omg Stacer , you have the patience of a saint !!!

Good luck , I'm hoping you'll keep seeing improvement
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 11:26 AM
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Good luck! I hope the changes you made continue to work. I wonder if adding cranberry to my gang's diet might be an added benefit for them.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 08:01 PM
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...She's also going to prescribe some Metacam. She wasn't sure that the Buprinex was available in Canada, but was going to look into it....
I would really advise you not to accept the Metacam.

Here is part of the background to my recommendation http://www.metacamkills.com

The oral version of this drug is specifically stated by both the FDA and the manufacturer as "NOT FOR USE IN CATS".
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Old August 18th, 2009, 11:45 PM
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Since all his tests have ruled out any sort of medical problem, it does sound behavioural. If Melinda's idea of earth in a litter box doesn't work, you might get him used to a harness in the house, and then take him outside on a leash to see if he will do his business there? I can well imagine how you're at your wit's end. No, you should not have to live like this, nor should your other pets be deprived of a nice soft spot to sleep. As a last resort, maybe you should consider sending him to a rescue place.

Last edited by catlover2; August 18th, 2009 at 11:50 PM.
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Old August 25th, 2009, 07:47 AM
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I thought Metacam was not good for cats. It may cause kidney failure??? How is your kitty doing now?

http://www.metacamkills.com/

http://www.persiancats.org/Medical_A...News_PHCR.html

http://www.felinecrf.org/causes_of_crf.htm#metacam
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Old August 25th, 2009, 08:00 AM
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Khari - In post #48 Stacer said.......
We did not use the Metacam, I'm going to give it back to the vet for disposal.

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I thought Metacam was not good for cats. It may cause kidney failure??? How is your kitty doing now?

http://www.metacamkills.com/

http://www.persiancats.org/Medical_A...News_PHCR.html

http://www.felinecrf.org/causes_of_crf.htm#metacam
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Old August 25th, 2009, 01:12 PM
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Yup, it's bad for the kidneys, which is why we didn't end up using it. Plus I really don't think he's in any pain. If anything, I'm leaning toward anxiety/depression.

He's doing OK now, he had an incident overnight last night, peed on the sofa again. Good thing we're still keeping the tarps on it while we're sleeping or not at thome. He went 5 days without problems, so I'm not sure if this is just a blip or if he's decided he doesn't like the litterbox again. I'm home from work today so I'm keeping a watchful eye on his litterbox habits.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 10:14 AM
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I'm going through the exact problems with a male cat you are, and its with the only one of my cats that has ever been outside (he's snuck out 4-5 times, and sprayed on bushes) I wonder if being outside is so alluring to them that when their inside, they want to go outside so bad they mark everywhere. Mine is always trying to sneak out, but I don't believe in letting them live outside. Hope you have luck, my house is shot.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 05:14 PM
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Lindapalm, I've read that the longer a cat doesn't use its litterbox, the harder it is to get them to use it again. Luckily in our case it had only been a matter of weeks, I think in your thread you had said that it's been months. I hope you can find a solution. Perhaps confinement with litterbox and food/water only will retrain your kitty to use the box.

Angus has had no more slip ups this week, but we're so not ready to remove tarps or open doors, he needs to prove himself for a few weeks more I think.
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  #26  
Old August 28th, 2009, 06:10 PM
lindapalm lindapalm is offline
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Stacer, I believe that the longer they go without using the litter box the harder iit is to get them to use it. We have eight cats, so I have no clue whether Rocky is using the litterbox and peeing elsewhere, or just peeing all over the house. Still waiting for him to pee in an empty new box so I can have him tested, but I don't think hes going to. Vet said I can get some crystals to put in the box so he'll pee in them without contaminating the sample. Hes in a large cage in our garage, and I have no clue what I'll do if he has nothing medical wrong with him.
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Old August 30th, 2009, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Stacer View Post
I've read that the longer a cat doesn't use its litterbox, the harder it is to get them to use it again.
I think it more depends on the cat, my girl Duffy was an indoor/outdoor cat until a few years ago when I moved into a 2nd floor apt & she couldn't go out anymore. She hadn't used a litterbox in about 14 years and took to using it again right away with no problems .
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  #28  
Old August 28th, 2009, 08:59 PM
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(he's snuck out 4-5 times, and sprayed on bushes).
Why not take him on supervised visits so he can spray his territory outside instead of in the house. I think another forum member does this for her cat and it helps the situation inside the house tremendously. He may be VERY territorial and need to tell the outside cats to stay away from his territory. There has been some great advice given on this thread about peeing cats but there are many other threads throughout this forum that have great advice for peeing / spraying cats as well. Have you tried some of the advice posters have given in this thread. You sound very frustrated

Please consider joining the Feline Inappropriate Elimination group for some help as well http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/F...e_Elimination/
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Old August 29th, 2009, 08:04 AM
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Why not take him on supervised visits so he can spray his territory outside instead of in the house. I think another forum member does this for her cat and it helps the situation inside the house tremendously. He may be VERY territorial and need to tell the outside cats to stay away from his territory. There has been some great advice given on this thread about peeing cats but there are many other threads throughout this forum that have great advice for peeing / spraying cats as well. Have you tried some of the advice posters have given in this thread. You sound very frustrated

Please consider joining the Feline Inappropriate Elimination group for some help as well http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/F...e_Elimination/
That is me. Jasper is very territorial and I live out in the country so there are a lot of stray males around. He will go antsy if he smells a cat and can't get outside to spray, then eventually start in the house.
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Old February 14th, 2010, 09:11 PM
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Just wanted to give an update on this thread.

I am thrilled to report that Angus hasn't had any accidents since the beginning of September. We've been faithful withthe Cosequin and we think that this is the reason he's doing so well, combined with some other changes we made to the litter area.

He's been a different cat since the Cosequin kicked in. He's been more affectionate, more playful and his temperament has been all round better. He's even tolerating Skylar better, I haven't seen him swat at her for months.

I just wanted to say thanks for all the great advice that was given. I feel like this thread saved my relationship with Angus.
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