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Old April 20th, 2009, 01:24 AM
Nagini Nagini is offline
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Unhappy Housebreaking puppy - I'm done.

Hi!

I messaged here couple weeks ago about my 6mo female puppy, about housebreaking it and I got some prettty good advice. The problem was that she thought it was okay to go potty indoors and we just made clear it is not.

For like, 2 weeks? she didnt go potty indoors and just scratched the door when she needed to go out potty. We were amazed how nicely it turned out. Until we noticed she still goes potty at night time. Weird if you ask me, shouldn't it be simple, if I've made clear to her inside=not okay, then why does she go at night time? (We havent even scared her [not that we know of] when we tell her off, just a simple no-no).

So I sacrificed my nights sleeps and attached bells on to her collar and put it around her neck before I went to sleep. Then I could hear her walk around and I cought her go potty indoors at night several times, but she still did go potty indoors in between without me catching. I couldn't really help it, I really tried.

SUDDENLY, about 3 days ago, around the same times she started behaving more difficult, not obeying always, not walking on the leash nicely, gotten huuuge boosts of energy, she pooped in the kitchen!!! Then she peed in the living room, day time, mind you.. So I just told her off, took her down etc etc.

Then now we noticed that she asks to go out too much, so we wont take her down every time she asks, because other wise she want's to go out every hour. I mean cmon, a 6mo puppy should hold atleast 4 hours right? IT CANNOT BE that she wants to go out as much as a 10week old. IM THROUGH THAT ALREADY. But then when we dont take her out when she wants to, she goes and leaks infront of us, on the floor, RIGHT after complaining to go out.

But I mean, she has wanted to go out this often for a while now, so that did not start recently.

I woke up this night when i saw her pee on the floor, at 03:33 AM, and I told her off, took her down, came up, and i saw that she has done another pee earlier that night. We took her down right before we went to bed at 22PM, so in those five hours she has peed 3 times. Cmon. And then she woke up at 7 when i woke up, and she needed to go again, I said no, she's just went out less than 4 hours ago, so she peed right on the floor.

I'm done guys, its not dogs fault, but Im really done, please help me waht to do.
Is this normal? She is absolutely reached her defiant age now, could it have to do something about that? What a sentence, too tired to fix it

And I have to say, few days ago, two days in a row, she asked to go out like 10 times a day, and it really wears me out. YES it is very very nice and you cant believe how happy i am that she does tell when she wants to go out.

But I cant even watch the lord of the rigns movie with my boyfriend on our one and only free day in a week without having to take her down 3 times in 3 hours.

She does do somehting when we take her out, so she is not joking.



It also makes me think, could she have an infection? Only symptomp would be alot of pee.

Im sorry this became a monologue. I didnt mean to. Hope someone reads this...
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Old April 20th, 2009, 02:49 AM
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dustybird dustybird is offline
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Is she drinking a lot?
Been spayed recently....if so she may have spay incontenence which isn't all that uncommon and a course of pills should take care of it(not an infection just the bladder muscles get weak for some reason). She seems to know she has to go though and for the most part with incontenence they don't know they're "leaking", then again she could feel the need but doesn't have the control to hold it.

Could also be an infection.

Either way I think it's time to give the vet a call and see what they say, that way you can rule out if it's something medical.

If everything checks out ok maybe the vet has some ideas on what you can do, like controlling her water intake. I would only do it on the advice of your vet.
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Old April 20th, 2009, 03:11 AM
Nagini Nagini is offline
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Thanks for your reply.

She hasn't been spayed so couldn't be from that.

She has been on raw diet for a while and recently we changed to dry food because she wasn't growing fast and with dry food she is growing nicely again. So she does drink more with the dry food. Not too much tho, maybe two bowls aday, 1l total?

Ill see what the vet can say, thanks!
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Old April 20th, 2009, 05:58 AM
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CearaQC CearaQC is offline
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My dog Sheeba didn't "get" house training until almost 7 months old. There were spurts where she did understand but still had a few accidents. Sandy came to us as an adult but was an outdoor dog at her old home. But house training her was a total breeze compared to a puppy.

I thought I would go crazy with all-hours potty times going outside. Sheeba would ask to go, but then just play and not potty. Other times she would go out and pee but then come back in the house and pee again, or an hour later poop on the floor. It did get slightly worse when I got her spayed but then everything got better.

Then one day there were no more accidents. The change was sudden. And it was glorious! No more stepping into puddles when half awake. lol

Feed regular meals at specific times. Then time how long it takes your dog to digest and eliminate.

The way I checked this was to occasionally feed raw egg and shell. When I saw confetti poop, then it was easy to figure out the timing.

One last thing, find out what signals your dog gives and encourage the signaling. Sheeba tells me when she needs to potty by first leaning her chin on my leg and then when I ask her what she wants, she sits pretty on her own without me asking (she sits pretty for lots of stuff though) and then I say "show me what you want" and she then runs to the door, sits and waits. Sandy gives me a nose poke and then dances around.

Hang in there, it gets easier.
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Old April 20th, 2009, 09:37 AM
Chris21711 Chris21711 is offline
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Have you had her checked out by the Vet to see if there could be some underlying issue that is causing her to excessively pee?
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Old April 20th, 2009, 09:48 AM
ScottieDog ScottieDog is offline
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I know how you feel. It wasn't that long ago that I was doing a dozen or more walks a day in very cold temperatures. She will learn.

Urinary tract infections (UTIs) can cause frequent urination. Your vet can examine the urine for bacteria and blood cells to rule this out. The good news is most of these can be treated and resolved with the appropriate antibiotic. Changes in toilet habits are worth having checked by your vet.

I know this will sound frustrating, but you may need to go back to square one on the house training. Do not let her have any unsupervised time. This includes when you are sleeping. Please consider crating her at night. Dogs typically will not soil their den areas, so she should not eliminate in the crate. You might still want to give her a walk mid-way through your sleep, just in case, for a few nights. Increase the amount of time each night by 30 minutes or so until she is dry throughout the night. Using old towels or an old blanket will make clean up easier than a nice crate bed.

When you are home keep her attached at the hip--literally. Use the umbilical leash method. Put a clip on your beltloop and attach the loop of her leash to your belt. The other end stays on her collar. You will monitor her constantly this way and she will not be able to have an accident. When it isn't safe for you to have her at your side, put her in the crate. Take her outside at least every 2 hours during the day when she isn't in her crate. Yes, at her age, she should be able to hold it longer. As the dry days add up, increase the time between walks. If she gets used to going when she wishes, she may need to relearn some bladder control. The adult dog we got had been kept outside and urinated when-ever she wanted. We had to slowly train her to have stronger bladder control. You should be able to get her back on track in just a few weeks. I know it is frustrating. Others have given advice about scheduling her feedings and this is very important. You could even remove her water a couple of hours before bedtime if she is healthy.

One final thing. How are you cleaning her accidents? You need to use an enzymatic pet cleaner like Simple Solution or Nature's Miracle. If she is still smelling her urine, it will attract her and let her think this is the place to go. Good luck. Give us updates!
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Old April 20th, 2009, 10:44 AM
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Blackdog22 Blackdog22 is offline
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When house training my pups, I let them outside EVERY hour. At night time they were crated. It's unfair to give pups unsupervised time out, they are puppies and it's obvious they will get into something. It's kind of like leaving a 6 year old in charge of an unsupervised candy store......the temptation is too great for them to act out. The reason I think it's unfair is during the day she has rules and expectations which she is expected to abide by, at night when your not watching her, all of those rules go out the window as you are not there to enforce them and she is not old enough to know better. All in all I feel it really damages the relashonship with your dog and makes you out to be a poor inconsistant leader in her eyes and it will really put a damper on her training.

If her house training is NOT a medical problem, it is definately a handler problem, not the dogs. I suggest you take your dog to the vet immediately for a urinalysis and bloodwork. This should not be expensive at all for your dog, a few months ago I had blood work, fecal exams and a urinalysis done on my 90lbs GSD it was under 400$ and well worth it. Your dog being much smaller should be much cheaper to get tested and it is of the utmost importance that you get it done. Frequent urination can be a symptom of serious medical issues, the onset can be fast and the results devastating....please get her tested.

After health is ruled out, you should start making an effort to be 100% consistant. Try writing a schedule for your dog and try to follow it.

I also think you should really invest in a crate, they are one of the most important training tools you will ever buy and will help your dog in a variety of areas.

As for the LOTR, that's the crappy thing about puppies, often times we are unable to do the things we want to do, as we have dogs to tend to. This is your problem, not theirs They didnt ask for you to buy them! I cant even begin to tell you how much I have missed out on because of my dogs......so many concerts, get togethers, movies....you name it, I missed it. All to take care of my dogs....and I shall keep missing out on things because I have lives that depend on me, and that's more important then anything else in the world. Your dog should always be your first priority, regardless of your plans and hobbies.

Also please do not discipline your dog when you find pee. Not ever. Only correct if you are witnessing the behavior. ANYTIME after that and the dog will not understand , 'NO' will become meaningless and you will REALLY lose respect from your dog.

I would like to add that housetraining takes longer with some dogs then others. My female was not fully house trained until she was 6 months old!!
My male on the other hand (following the same method) was 100% housetrained at 4 months.
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Old April 24th, 2009, 01:34 PM
Nagini Nagini is offline
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Hi again all!

Quote:
By the way, when you see the vet will you be asking about spaying?? Even though Lily is a very rare and lovely breed, breeding is something best left to the professionals.
No we wont be discussing spaying, we don't plan on doing it anytime soon. And as much as I would love to see her having puppies, we dont ever wanna breed on her. It is still a pretty fresh race and I think its important to know alot about these dogs (and use alot of money on different kind of tests not mentioning good amount of space for them) before breeding.

***

I have one question to everybody;

we have penned her up at night times and two first nights I made the mistake of taking her out once a night, because of ENDLESS crying. But then I realized I have to fit the dog in my life and not the other way around and now I dont listen to the whining. It is not just "oh let her whine she will stop after 15min", no she wont. She cried last night from 1AM to 4:40 Am and then she fell asleep, yes she did nap a little during those hours but it was crying mostly.

The thing is has been with us for over 4 months and during this time she has ALWAYS every night without exception pee'd at night time, so I think this is more of an holding bladder issue.

The vet says she has a kennel cough and not a infection But she is doing pretty well besides coughing every now and then and that is being handled.

And Ive also been suggested to keep a pee diary and it shows she holds pee 2-5 hours depeding, its mostly every 2½hours and vet suggests training her to go out every certain hours as a routine and slowly make the amount of time wihtout a reliese trip longer and longer. She is now getting out:

7:00
10:00 (morning walk)
FOOD
14:00
17:00 (evening walk)
FOOD
(possibly one walk at this time)
and just before we go to bed at 22:00

So she has to hold 3hours, 4 hours, 3 hours, 5 hours and 9 hours.

Is this very bad? Should I change something about it? And Ive been looking at her water intake and its just enormous before bedtime, so I take water away around 19:00, unless she does some activities after evening walk, then I let her have a decent sip.

So, what I wanted to ask was if the walking schedule sound bad? What about taking water away, is that bad?

This bladder holding routine seems to be pretty tough for her, but she manages to do it alright. Today she couldnt hold it and after whining pee'd inside but I didnt tell her off, she did tell me that, but she had been just a while back. I seriously believe its jsut a matter of holding bladder and she not being trained that v3ery well. She has just been housetrained like 4 weeks ago and before that she leaked whenever and wherever she wanted, so didnt need hold anything, and now i think is something she has to practise.

What about when she cries at night, is it really okay just to let her cry until she learns she isnt getting anything out of it. I mean, isnt part of crate training that dog learns to hold it in throughout the night (wont soil the bed area issue), and when they cry you should jsut let them cry unless of course theres some real reason behind the crying that should be taken care of?

Quote:
she is doing what you are asking her to do - to let you know when she needs to go. But if you don't take her out - she goes right in front of you. NO DUH! She just told you she has to go...she is not a human to tell you in words :"mommy, I really really truly gotta go!"
Ive thought about this, and it is true, but if she is asking to go out alot every time she feels she has something in her bladder, isnt it okay to make her wait just to train her bladder? Im guessing when we get further in this and she has been crated at night time more and more that will help her to hold bladder, so maybe that wont be an issue in a while...

Im sorry guys, I'm just a big type of person who worries, and maybe too much. I just dont want to do things too wrong, I love her and I want the best for her. And it is my first dog and Ive read alot and studied, but some things you hjust have to learn by doing and experiencing...
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Old April 24th, 2009, 01:40 PM
Nagini Nagini is offline
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Quote:
I have one question to everybody;
Im sorry, I think I just lied there

And I just took a picture of her today, so I could just share it too since I asked alot of questions !

She looks a bit buffed in it...
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Old April 24th, 2009, 04:06 PM
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angeldogs angeldogs is offline
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She is soooo gorgeous.

But one pic at a time is a tease.we need a min of about 6.yep that should do it.so more pics please.
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Old April 25th, 2009, 01:26 AM
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growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagini View Post
The thing is has been with us for over 4 months and during this time she has ALWAYS every night without exception pee'd at night time, so I think this is more of an holding bladder issue.

........

I seriously believe its jsut a matter of holding bladder and she not being trained that v3ery well. She has just been housetrained like 4 weeks ago and before that she leaked whenever and wherever she wanted, so didnt need hold anything, and now i think is something she has to practise.

............

Ive thought about this, and it is true, but if she is asking to go out alot every time she feels she has something in her bladder, isnt it okay to make her wait just to train her bladder?
Has the vet physically examed her bladder or suggested an ultrasound to check the size & development of her bladder?

I'm wondering if she has a physical issue such as an abnormally small bladder
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Old April 25th, 2009, 06:31 AM
wolfgirl333 wolfgirl333 is offline
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As I was reading your post I thought maybe you should crate train her but since you are doing that already that's a good thing and hopefully it works.

I have a 4 month old husky and he has been crate trained since he was 2 months old and already at 3 months I would put him in his crate at 10 pm and he would normally hold it till 7 am if i was lucky but mostly I would have to wake up at around 5 am. He has a very good bladder control although he was undernourished before and after birth so he is constantly drinking water, so during the day I have to let him out quite often since he is more active.

So if she doesn't have an infection, I could suggest that you put her in her crate during the day maybe for 1-2 hours each time then when you let her out of her crate take her out right away. It might help her control her bladder better in the long term and hopefully you see a change in her behavior aswell to a better one that is.
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Old April 24th, 2009, 04:38 PM
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pbpatti pbpatti is offline
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What a beautiful girl you have, it sounds like you are getting lots of advice and Lily will grow up and she will learn...one day she will surprise the heck out of you and sleep throught the night and be potty trained.

My girl was potty trained to go outside, when she was about 2 yrs old she decided that she needed to go out in the middle of the night so I let her out, next night same thing, this became a habit for her and I finally said enough. I had to close the bedroom door and listen to her whine for a bit, she got the message we are not getting up in the night so you can go sniff the yard!!!! Sasha is my puppy she is 4 1/2 now but will always be my puppy. Welcome to pets.ca pbp

check out this website it may have some info you can use. www.dogbreedinfo.com/canarydog.htm
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Old April 24th, 2009, 11:30 PM
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Romeo's #1 Fan Romeo's #1 Fan is offline
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Smile

This is my very first post, aside from my introduction . This thread caught my eye, because I remember thinking that when Romeo was first being potty trained, as well as ALL the other stuff you have to be consistent with, I was sure I had lost my rational thinking all together. Here I was, the mother of two grown sons, one expecting his own child in October and I was flummoxed by 3 pounds of puppy lol.

Your dog is absolutely gorgeous. You have gotten so much good advice, but I will add just a little of what helped me:

1) Crate training - still beneficial to this day and he is almost a year old. I cover it at night now, although I didn't until he sleeping through (we were lucky, he slept through very quickly) - I made sure his night didn't last forever though, and was careful with his water consumption before bed . For me, the cover lets him differentiate between a short nap and the long one he has at night. He can now go comfortably for 8-9 hours at night.
2) A set routine. Most of us have to work for a living but for almost four months I came home every day at lunch until I was satisfied that my son was fully comfortable in assuming that care as well, time very well spent. Just a side note, we recently moved, so while Romeo adjusts to the new house and no more puppy pads (WOOHOO), we use the crate more during the day which he is more than comfortable with. Soon I will portion off a section of the rec room downstairs for him to have when I am convinced that he knows that even with "more space" he still needs to go outside. Not quite there yet.
3) Learning that accidents don't mean the training is done for.
4) Puppy school - not for them, for you . Misery loves company lol - I'm teasing about that, but it was a very fun and educational process.

Anyways, I've blabbed enough, I wish you all the best with your lovely girl - Romeo had kennel cough also when he was about 3 months old, cleared up very nicely with antibiotics. He is now almost a year (May 16)

Linda
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