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Old April 9th, 2009, 12:58 PM
New Dog Owner New Dog Owner is offline
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Two Dogs Same Litter - HELP!!!

Me and my fiance just got two pups from the same litter. When we got them they were 5 weeks old, now they are going on 7 weeks. We got them early because the mom stopped feeding them. Thanfully the owner was able to get them off of milk and got them on watered down dry food. Originally we were only going to get 1, but the person told us that she was going to have to send the other 1 to the pound because she couldn't find him a home. So we ended up with two males. They are german shepard and old english sheep dog mixes.

We currently have two crates, a decent backyard and a basement with a section blocked off for them. We started the potty training right away (still working on it) and I also started walking them in the morning and in the evening. At first they didn't like the leash at all, but now they accept it, but the walks are not going good. I try walking them together and one will stop and not move, then when he starts to walk the other stops and will not move, then what ends up happening is they start play fighting. I started getting concerned so I started looking at how to walk two dogs together and I was not happy with the results. Everyplace I look everyone keeps saying that we need to get rid of one of them because it's impossible to raise them together due to their pack nature and if we do keep them that we can never leave them alone together. I find this hard to believe, so I need some help.

One thing I keep reading is to seperate them, right now we do keep them in the same crate at night (changing today), we do have them in the same basement pen (changing today), they walk together, they eat together, basically they do everything together. So we are going to work on doing things seperatley starting today. But my question is, what else can I do so we don't run into problems later? How can I get them to walk together? And above all how long do I need to keep them seperated? Our intention was to have two dogs, where we are the leader of the pack, where they get along and we can walk all together without any issues.

From what I'm reading, it's impossible, but someone out there must know how to do this. I see people like the Dog Whisper who has over 20 dogs in his open backyard together all the time and he doesn't have problems...so any help would be appreciated, since they are pups I think we can make any changes now vs. waiting until there is a bigger issue that is harder to break.
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Old April 9th, 2009, 01:10 PM
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luckypenny luckypenny is offline
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Oh for goodness sake, I'm so sorry you got such shoddy advice ....

Even if their mother was unable to feed them, the litter should have stayed with her until the ver minimum of 8 weeks. But you can't change that now. Please keep them together, crate and all. At 7 weeks, they still very much need each other for comfort and for learning very important lessons (bite inhibition for one) during this crucial learning stage in their lives. You can spend some one on one time with them, but please, don't separate them for long periods of time.

7 weeks is way too young to expect them to be walking nicely together on leash. Let them play safely in your yard and basement for at least until they are properly immunized. You may even want to consider puppy classes then, to get a better idea on how to reponsibly raise them and to continue in their socialization of other dogs and people.

There are several other members here who have pups from the same litter. It's not the end of the world and in your case, because of them being removed so young, it's a blessing.
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Old April 9th, 2009, 01:12 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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Hi New Dog Owner and welcome to the forum.

Firstly thank you for saving these dogs. They are very very young and this is why you are having these little problems.

Secondly having the two is actually better for them than having the one. Whoever told you this is impossible to manage knows very little so keep them both. They will ensure that equally they are socialized well. One will be more dominenant than the other and that is really ok. They understand eac hothers language and are taking their roles in teaching one another which minimizes a little of the workload for you. At the same time, you must take the role of the mother to ensure that they understand good canine behaviour. The best advice I have in regards to how to assume this role is to contact a behaviouralist and read about it as well. This will teach you and give you the understandings around helping them understand what is acceptable and what is not.

For the walking, this is challenging with pups whether one or two. Keep the walk brisk and quick. Encourage the walk in an upbeat tone with clapping and the 'good boys' in a higher, energetic tone. Keep moving. If one stops encourage alittle play and he will come.

I cannot comment really on keeping them separated in the crate at this moment. Personally, they need each other for warmth and security so I would not do it right now. By 12 weeks, I would however but close enough to see one another.

Ensure that your basement has windows and light....very important!!!
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Old April 9th, 2009, 01:13 PM
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babymomma babymomma is offline
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Welcome to the forum!

First of all, It is 100 % Possible to have the 2 dogs together.. I would like to know who told you this, and give them a slap on the wrist for Giving people wrong information lol..

Um, All i can say right now is to get the cesar millan Mentality Out of your head!

You dont need to be "Pack leader" or what ever.. Just have rules and boundaries..
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Old April 9th, 2009, 01:17 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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Ha LP - you beat me to it this time!

As for a Caeser Milan mentality or otherwise, gravitate to what works for you. If Caeser or however else you like and makes sense to you, then do what feels right and comfortable. The best advice however is to find someone really good that you trust that will help you understand the behaviours of your dogs as individuals.
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Old April 9th, 2009, 01:23 PM
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Mat&Murph Mat&Murph is offline
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I have 2 males from the same litter. I ahve had the same problems with fighting on leash but only play fighting. Thats normal but you will have to work on them not doing it. It will get better theolder they so get. They are very young right now so don't panic yet. Find a trainer to help guide you. Good advice from the above
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Old April 9th, 2009, 01:24 PM
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Welcome to the forum. I'm guessing whoever told you to get rid of one, has little experience raising two dogs. They may have tried, failed and believe it just can't be done.

I'm a cat person myself, so I can't really give you any advice. I can only suggest you listen to what the other owners here have to say. You will notice most of them are living in not only multiple dog households, but multiple species households.
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Old April 9th, 2009, 01:48 PM
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Congrats on your puppies!

As has been already mentioned, two puppies are certainly not a bad thing and I do NOT reccomend seperating them or giving one up at this time. It's not impossible for you to train them, and it certainly is not impossible to raise two dogs. In fact, your two boys will grow together and have such a great bond - they'll keep one another company.


Your puppies are stopping on their leashes because they're still learning HOW to walk on a leash, outside, away from your home and their 'safe zone'. Like BenMax said, making the walks fun and high energy will encourage them to move forward, but don't get discouraged when they stop in mid-stride. That's normal puppy behavior, a matter of the puppy trying to 'control' his environment; and don't forget, they're still learning that YOU are the boss. By stopping, they are testing their boundaries - putting on the brakes and telling you that they don't want to go where you've asked them too.

It's important that you move through that, instead of allowing the puppy to sit there. Once your puppy has walked ahead for you, that would be a good time to turn around and go home. Never end the walk on a bad note, when your pup has stopped walking; but make these initial on-leash walks shorter (5-10 minutes) and gradually make them longer as they get older.
Do you have someone that can help you walk them right now? I ask because it might be easier during these inital stages, in order to prevent them from play-fighting while you're walking them. And remember - the reason they're play-fighting is because they've been given the opportunity. They're bored with whatever you're doing, and so they've looked to one another for entertainment, which is what pups are all about. Keep the pace brisk and call their names as you go - I like to 'WoooHoo!!" occasionally, which usually makes me look crazy but the doggies love it when you get loud and exciting.
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Old April 9th, 2009, 01:52 PM
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LavenderRott LavenderRott is offline
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It isn't that they can't be together - it is that they must be seperated to interact with YOU for portions of the day. If you keep them together constantly, they will bond to each other and being part of your pack will be secondary. Kind of the opposite of what most people want.

Also, don't assume that since they play nicely together that they are socialized and will play nicely with other dogs. They are still going to need to be socialized after they get all of their shots.

As for walking nicely on a leash - don't expect that to happen for weeks!! These are just babies and whether they are walking alone or together - there is waaayyyyyyy too much to explore to think about walking nicely yet.
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Old April 9th, 2009, 02:04 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LavenderRott View Post
It isn't that they can't be together - it is that they must be seperated to interact with YOU for portions of the day. If you keep them together constantly, they will bond to each other and being part of your pack will be secondary. Kind of the opposite of what most people want.

Also, don't assume that since they play nicely together that they are socialized and will play nicely with other dogs. They are still going to need to be socialized after they get all of their shots.

As for walking nicely on a leash - don't expect that to happen for weeks!! These are just babies and whether they are walking alone or together - there is waaayyyyyyy too much to explore to think about walking nicely yet.
Very good points.
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Old April 10th, 2009, 12:48 AM
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Welcome to pets.ca . I agree with the advice from the others and would not worry to much about seperating them at this age. Once they hit three months then I would work on seperating them a lot more and work each dog independantly. Seven weeks is very young for puppies and definately to young to worry about good leash walking techniques. Focus more on playing and bonding with them, toilet training etc. Big dogs "usually" potty train easily but don't expect much for another month or so and true reliability will be much longer.

I like this blog http://the-sunshinegirl.blogspot.com/. The owner raised to labrador litter mates and offers some good advice.

I would also definately recommend this website http://www.dogstardaily.com/ especially the puppy advice from Dr. Ian Dunbar who is regarded as one of the "pioneers" of positive puppy training techniques.

Good luck and we'd love to see pics when you get a spare moment .
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Old April 10th, 2009, 01:07 AM
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First welcome to the forum. Wow, you sure got some great advice.

I just want to say that definately you should take the dogs to obedience classes. They will learn to socialize with other dogs. It is true they will have their own pack if you don't spend time alone with each dog. You are going to be busy with these little fellows. Please post pictures, if you have any spare time
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Old April 11th, 2009, 06:11 PM
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lUvMyLaB<3 lUvMyLaB<3 is offline
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yes I agree, I don't know who gave you the advice but it is not good advice.

All that I can add is that please don't expect to see results. Don't be dissapointed when the walks don't go well, really they are too young for leashes and I would not use a collar on their neck for a walk. They are young enough that several good romps outside is better than trying a walk at this point. Don't be discouraged that you are not seeing results. They are babies and should still be with their mother and litter mates. It is too bad that many people think that when a mother starts weaning her pups from milk that her job is over, that is very untrue. Good luck. Measure progress in weeks not each day, Soon they will be big behaved dogs, but it is a long road to get there.
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Old April 11th, 2009, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lUvMyLaB<3 View Post
yes I agree, I don't know who gave you the advice but it is not good advice.

All that I can add is that please don't expect to see results. Don't be dissapointed when the walks don't go well, really they are too young for leashes and I would not use a collar on their neck for a walk. They are young enough that several good romps outside is better than trying a walk at this point. Don't be discouraged that you are not seeing results. They are babies and should still be with their mother and litter mates. It is too bad that many people think that when a mother starts weaning her pups from milk that her job is over, that is very untrue. Good luck. Measure progress in weeks not each day, Soon they will be big behaved dogs, but it is a long road to get there.
I think that the OP should still certainly be able to see results with her puppies. Dogs learn quickly, even pups, and it's not hard to teach them how to walk properly on a leash with consistancy and patience and encouragement.

I also don't believe that a harness (halter) is a good training tool for puppies as it encourages pulling. A SAFE training collar is absolutley fine for a young puppy, when sized properly.
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Old April 11th, 2009, 09:22 PM
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lUvMyLaB<3 lUvMyLaB<3 is offline
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I am sorry maybe you missunderstood. In her post she said that when she took them for a walk she was discouraged with the results. What I am saying is that no, they are not going to learn in just a few walks.. It will take time, as with potty training. I disagree with you, because what I said is correct. potty training, and leash training will take more than a day.

And I do not agree with you that a 7 week old puppy should have a collar right away. No a harness does not encourage pulling. There are many breeds that should not wear collars and that does not mean you have to live with pulling. At 7 weeks, they will be pulling, and being pulled, and I don't think a collar is the best choice. That is my opinion, you have yours. Does not make mine wrong, but thanks.
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Old June 20th, 2014, 03:03 AM
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I think that you should do everything separately.Also walking them one at a time

Hope it helps!
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