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  #1  
Old August 3rd, 2004, 12:49 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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Getting a puppy (or kitten)? Please read!

Never buy a puppy or kitten at a pet store! These animals come from puppy and kitten mills and/or disreputable "backyard breeders" who breed ONLY for profit.

Don't be fooled by pet store staff saying they come from "responsible breeders". NO responsible breeder would even think of dumping their puppies/kittens at a pet store, to be sold to anyone who has the money!

Every time one of these animals is purchased it financially rewards and encourages the millers and perpetuates the incredible cruelty that is involved with producing the puppies and kittens!

Not sure what a puppy mill is?

No Puppy Mills Canada
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Old August 3rd, 2004, 12:51 PM
sammiec sammiec is offline
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Great post Lucky!!
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Old August 3rd, 2004, 01:52 PM
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Tx LR Much needed
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Old August 12th, 2004, 01:59 AM
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Pet Stores

My sister bought our dog from a pet store for $900 CDN. The pet store had all his papers. I recently discovered that my dog is mostly likely from a puppy mill. My sister thought that becasue the dog was registered by the American Kennel Club that meant he wasn't from a puppy mill, but in fact the American Kennel Club will registers dogs even if their from a puppy mill!
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Old August 14th, 2004, 07:31 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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Quote:
but in fact the American Kennel Club will registers dogs even if their from a puppy mill!
Exactly!! AKC or CKC papers are basically worthless, as ALL they mean is that the parents of the puppies were purebred, and of the same breed. Doesn't matter if they they are kept in filthy conditions and abused, or bred in mills. Doesn't matter if they were extremely poor specimens, or not breeding quality in any way.

The AKC and CKC do NOTHING to discourage backyard breeding and puppy mills who are churning out tons of puppies with all kinds of genetic defects from being badly bred, and inbred.

It's time for these organizations to take a stand against this sort of thing.
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Old August 14th, 2004, 07:45 PM
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IMHO the CKC AKC have had their documents fraudulently reproduced (according to a HS cruelty investigator)

So what you even think may be certificates could even be fraudulent.
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Old August 15th, 2004, 09:24 AM
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My 2 cents

I would like to add to this thread to stay away from ads in newspapers where people are selling puppies that they have purposely bred (again as Luba said these are BYB/Millers). A reputable breeder does not sell puppies in the newspaper, they don't have to. Reputable breeders have waiting lists. I don't believe anyone of any reputation needs to breed period, but that is another topic altogether
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Old September 21st, 2004, 12:42 PM
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Well I noticed that my *******'s has been selling kittens for about the last year or so, they look well taken care of at the store but I am sure are coming from a BYB or just an irresponsible pet owner. They sell them for about $20, but they say the cat is free, you are paying for the 'starter' kit, and the kittens are dewormed (no doubt with something from the store). I have been buying my cat food there for years and they have always had fish and birds but not kittens. The kittens are not always available but I have seen them about 3 or 4 times this year (which made me think BYB). I went to check out Paulmacs.com and found that they advertise there that they do not sell Cats or dogs and instead encourage you to visit your local shelter. So, I started calling the main office, got transferred twice and have now left a message for someone and await a call back.

There is another store here in the falls at Niagara Square called **** and I am positive that they are dealing with Mills and/or BYB, the animals they have there look so sad and poorly taken care of, but the up side is it seems to be the only one of its kind here in the falls. The others here and in St. Catherines only adopt out their critters and are often in association with a rescue or foster organization.

Last edited by White Wolf; May 26th, 2006 at 12:39 AM. Reason: Slander- please read forum rules.
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Old October 31st, 2004, 06:58 PM
CaneCorso81 CaneCorso81 is offline
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No reputable breeders will breed mixed breeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by parcc
can anyone suggest a good breeder / somoene who just does it for the love of dogs for mini schnoodles / (mini ?) golden phoo's????

thanks

You have to do research on breeders and ask many questions related to parents temperament, health guarantee such as OFA, CERF, SAS, and health problems, etc.. If a breeder tells you that her dogs don't have health problems, she is lying. Run away from this breeder period! A reputable breeder will inform you what kind of health problem do they see in their lines, etc. This is called homework.. It is your responisble to do homework and ask many questions. You should never depend on your friends or strangers about who is a reputable breeder, you are the one who make the decision to know if this person is a reputable breeder or not. Always ask for a proof of OFA, Cerf, or penn hips, etc...
Don't trust what a breeder tells you that she has OFA papers, etc. You have get the ofa numbers and search it up online.

I want to let you know that reputable breeders will never breed mixed breeds such as schnoodles, peekapoos, labdoodles, etc..
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  #10  
Old September 21st, 2004, 01:33 PM
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debanneball debanneball is offline
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[QUOTE=LuckyRescue]Never buy a puppy or kitten at a pet store!

Sorry Lucky, but I did. One Saturday my husband and I were at PJ's, buying fish food, looking around, I saw these 2 seal point kittens, and one of them was just terrified, crouching in the corner. It bothered me so much that on Monday morning, I called, and the kitten was still there. I left work, went and got her, took her home. Today, Rose is 11 years, and doing fine. Correct, I may have paid too much, but what else could I do...leave her there and have nightmares.....
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  #11  
Old September 21st, 2004, 01:45 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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Quote:
but what else could I do
I understand, and this is why I never go into any pet stores that sell puppies and kittens. You can get everything you need at pet supply stores, and there is no temptation to financially reward and encourage these backyard breeders who don't care how much suffering they cause.

You can also write to the petstores and tell them just why you will no longer buy their products.
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Old September 21st, 2004, 01:50 PM
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My only defense for ******* is if like the Pet Valu around the corner from me they have cat adoptions monthly all the cats are from the Toronto Cat rescue they do not sell pets in the store. The owner said he would never allow pets to be sold in his store he refuses to put money in the pockets of BYB or Puppymills.

Last edited by White Wolf; May 26th, 2006 at 12:39 AM.
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Old September 22nd, 2004, 12:11 AM
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The *******'s here was in fact selling the kittens without the permission of their head office, the man I spoke to there said it is only acceptable if it is a situation such as in Toronto where they are adoptions only through an organization (the pet store just provides food and litter and space). The owner no doubt was trying to be helpful by helping these kittens find homes as he is a very nice man and his staff treated the kittens great. I actually went in to the store this afternoon and overheard that they were already contacting people on some sort of kitten list. So I guess the man from corporate nipped this problem in the bud. I just hope that this owner does decide to align himself with the local Humane Society because they really do need more space for these little critters.

Last edited by White Wolf; May 26th, 2006 at 12:38 AM.
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Old September 22nd, 2004, 10:21 AM
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Well done, Krdahmer! Very nice of you to get the owner educated in ways he can better serve the cat overpopulation issue!
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Old September 24th, 2004, 11:55 AM
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cats and dogs for sale in shops

Havent seen dogs and cats in shops till we immigrated here it isnt allowed in England althought they can sell some reptiles and small animals fish etc. Couldnt get over the shops selling cats and dogs well puppies and kittens and yes they are cute i know avoiding the shops as my boys pester me to buy them and i wouldnt. I personally dont think you should buy a puppy especially without seeing both parents and i wouldnt. I am doing research at the moment i a hope to rescue or purchase a english mastiff or both maybe.
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Old November 18th, 2005, 11:33 PM
joeysmama joeysmama is offline
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Getting a puppy (or kitten)? Please read!

When we finally decided to get a dog we were adamant about it being a rescue dog. Our kids were in high school and we knew they were responsible so our only condition was that it be rescued from a no-kill facility.

When I think I can, I'll post about how Joey touched our lives. On the day he died they must have heard my wails in the next state. I can't stop crying. I miss my baby dog so much !!

And of course I said I would never get another dog--no one could replace him. But there is an empty space in this house that needs to be filled with a furry. When we passed the pet store at the mall and saw baby dogs in the window it broke my heart and my husband said we could start calling breeders. We just wanted the experience of a puppy---although I know that our rescue days are not over.

Anyway....here's my problem. I was working with local kennel clubs trying to find a breeder with a litter in the near future and haven't had any luck yet. One breeder I'd heard good things about said that he knew someone who would be breeding in about 9 weeks and then another 9 before the puppies would go home.

Well my husband brought me home a puppy. And I'm sure it's from a pet store. I absolutely ABHOR pet stores!! I agree that no one who cares about animals, no one who has a conscience, could send their puppies to live in cages, to stand on wire, to have almost no human contact except from the parents who indulge their kids by letting them take the puppies out. And then I don't think there is any supervision by the workers to be sure that the animals are being handled correctly.

The day we got Joey there was a family looking at him when we got there and they were told that they weren't a good match and they werent allowed to take him. Those kids were rough and the rescue agency was looking to be sure these dogs found good homes. The stores dont care.

In the stores these puppies and kittens are just merchandise and they want to move the merchandise.

So...what do I do? My husband is a sweetheart and he thinks that he is making a grand gesture to heal my broken heart. He has never felt that anyone should buy a dog from a store OR a breeder. He's always said that there are plenty of dogs out there. So I think he just wants, somehow to make things right. That guy thing of trying to fix things. I can not take this little guy back--could you put him back in a cage after he's been freed? And our money is very tight right now after having spent THOUSANDS on Joey when he was sick. It's very upsetting to me to have our money spent there.

Bottom line---I love my husband, and I am growing to love the new baby dog. But I'm embarassed about it. I'm truly just embarassed. I think when I add a rescue dog to the family it will make me feel that I've evened the score somehow.

Anyway--thank you for listening. I love this website because it's such a supportive community and you all feel the same way I do about behaving responsibly towards the creatures in your care. People thought we were crazy for taking Joey to specialists and spending money on tests and hospital stays. But when I found this website I got wonderful advice and even, at the suggestion of some members here, found a chiropractor for him. And he came to the house. There was a point where we knew it wouldn't alleviate his problem but it did alleviate the pressure and was kind of a treat for him so we continued with the visits until he was hospitalized.

Sorry this is so long. I had to get this off my chest. Thank you for listening.
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Old November 19th, 2005, 12:04 AM
Prin Prin is offline
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I would tell your hubby about pet stores and puppy mills, outside the context of your doggy. I'd say, "Hey did you hear about the puppy mill busts this past week? I'm learning so much about them and apparently, pet stores buy from puppy mills. Let's promise never buy from a pet store ever again, ok?"

You have the doggy. The best thing you can do now, is do what you are doing: give him a happy home with love and care and health.
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Old November 19th, 2005, 11:08 AM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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Of course I wouldn't take the puppy back to be resold to anyone with money in their pockets, or to end up dumped at a shelter because it's shelf life has expired and it's not profitable anymore.

But, in your case, this is how petstores sell puppies. Many people cannot/won't wait for a puppy from a reputable breeder or rescue and want what they want right now. You can see how it happens. Your husband KNEW all about the abuse and mills, yet got one there anyway. Many people do not know.

What you can do is spread the word about where petstore puppies come from and urge everyone you know NOT to patronize these stores at all and to tell the store WHY they will not shop there. Petstores care only about profit/loss, so the only way to put pressure on them is to cut their profits.

You could also volunteer to help a rescue. There are many ways to do this, incuding fostering animals, helping at adoption events or fundraisers etc and your help would be so appreciated!!
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  #19  
Old May 20th, 2006, 11:44 AM
Kayla1984 Kayla1984 is offline
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My Paulmacs sells Kittens and Cats for our SPCA but that is all.

However I was in Toronto yesterday at YorkDale Mall and they have this huge pet store. I just decided to wander in and they had about 50 + puppies. I currently have a purebred boxer and home and was wandering down past the puppies and noticed 2 boxers. They wanted 3600.00 for a boxer and they were SO skinny. I mentioned something to the girl who worked there and they were like "Oh well we get them in from Europe so they were stressed and probably didn't eat the whole two days on the plane"

I was so angry!! TWO DAYS on a plane wasn't going to get this puppy that skinny!!! I have never been so mad!!!

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Old May 20th, 2006, 12:41 PM
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kayla, i was there this week too. I shouldn't look, but anyway... the 2 boxers were very skinny... and also they didn't look well bred at all... fairly long noses, and their coloring seemed off too. The prices that store is asking is absolutely insane. So sad.
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Old November 21st, 2005, 11:16 AM
joeysmama joeysmama is offline
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Getting a puppy (or kitten)? Please read!

Thank you for your responses. Prin, I did just what you suggested. I brought the subject up in the context of dog food, buying him a coat etc. I told him that I would feel better if the store didn't get any more of our money and I told him that they buy from puppy mills. And then he said "Oh no--he's a purebred, he has papers." (It turns out his aversion to buying a dog was a monetary thing--he always had a houseful of dogs growing up and they just found their way there--he didn't see a reason to spend money. That's my guy !) So later I showed him a few posts in a kind of offhanded way and the next time I mentioned that the puppy should have a sweater he said something about driving over to Target.

Deb, I would LOVE to get involved with a rescue organization. I don't want to foster until this guy is housebroken but I'm going to ask about adoption days. I stil have the info on the rescue organization that saved Joey. I always hear from them about this time of year too. I'll contact them ! Thank you for suggesting that !
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  #22  
Old January 7th, 2007, 07:06 PM
Daisy2943 Daisy2943 is offline
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There is one thing about breeders who sell in the paper. First they need to build a reputation and a newspaper is the best way your able to screen out people who don't know a lot about the breed. It took my mom ten years to build a reputation and she gets calls about papillons all the time even though she doesn't breed anymore. Also when i bought charlie, i got him through an add in the paper the breeder made us do research before we brought him home by quizzing us about possible health risks and proper ear care it was weird being quizzed but it made me feel comfortable about buying him from a BYB who is now a kennel affliliated with the AKC. The breeder also does an in home visit and has visited my home three times since i bought him to make sure that he has a good home. Also she would get him i ever get rid of him and she would pay for him. ( 20% of the cost of the dog is depleted each year) She just did an in home visit about two months ago. Some breeders with reputation had to start out somehow...
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  #23  
Old January 7th, 2007, 11:04 PM
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No way! You don't start by having a litter of unwanted puppies. Good breeders, regardless of reputation, won't breed unless the puppies are already sold. And the ads in the paper are always for puppies who are already born.

Seems to me you build a reputation in the show ring and competition and not through cheap, sleazy ads.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 11:46 PM
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No good breeder starts as a byb. That logic is so sickly flawed...

You do build your rep in the ring, in sports, getting to know people who have reps in your breed. Make friends, network. When that first litter of pups finally comes, people off a mentors wait list may be interested.

Last place a good breeder would advertise is a newspaper, yuck.
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Old March 19th, 2007, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prin View Post
No way! You don't start by having a litter of unwanted puppies. Good breeders, regardless of reputation, won't breed unless the puppies are already sold. And the ads in the paper are always for puppies who are already born.

Seems to me you build a reputation in the show ring and competition and not through cheap, sleazy ads.
SO COMPLETELY 110% TRUE.

My dog was born in December 2005. I paid for him in the summer of '04. All her puppies are pre-paid for as her waiting list is very long, or you take a chance on someone changing their minds (doesn't happen). She decides which two she wants to breed ahead of time, and you put your name down with a sex of choice (as well as "family pet -neutered" or "show dog-unneutered"), and give her a deposit. I told her I wanted a family pet, but since she pays for all the show dog stuff (ring fees, health tests, breeding costs if any, etc), that I would concider keeping him unneutered if he grew up to be of good health and show quality. I told her I wanted a big male. Big feet, big block head, blonde, etc. She looked at me like I was absolutely out of my mind. I never got to chose which puppy was mine, and he is the complete opposite of what I wanted (he's small, darker, cute as hell but no block head, etc). BUT based on his personality, I'm not convinced I would have been happier with any other dog. I just love him to pieces, and he really is the perfect dog for me.

She does a FULL run of tests on mom and pop, as well as looks into the family history to make sure there's no signs of dysplasia or other major health problems. When the puppies are 6 weeks, a specialist comes to the house and does an analasys on them to test their personality, as well as give us a best guess which might grow up to be #1 pick for show ring quality (this is the dog she usually hangs on to for breeding purposes). We're all one big happy family (show dog people are weird), so I see my boys siblings (and aunts & uncles, cousins, half siblings, etc) on a regular basis. Some of which he's made very close buddies with.

She's never advertised in the paper because she's never had to. If you want to be a good breeder, and you put the effort in into establishing yourself as one even before your first litter, people come to you and the need to advertise is non-existant.

I feel completely lucky to have found mine. WE LOVE YOU GRANDMA! (she's not really my grandma, for the record... that's just what we call her cause that's what she is to the puppies. lol)
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  #26  
Old March 19th, 2007, 12:20 PM
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I'm afraid we'll still be having this conversation years from now. Until they ban the selling of live animals from pet stores, there will always be people there to buy them. I know people at work, the first words that came out of their mouths, I know I shouldn't have bought the puppy or the kitten from a pet store, but.....
A lot of people know better, and it doesn't matter.

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  #27  
Old January 17th, 2007, 03:50 PM
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what are puppy mills? all the pet stores in my area have dogs and cats for adoption on certain days of the week, but they are all animals from local rescue shelters. the animals cost anywhere from $65 to $85 to adopt. i always thought it was pretty convienient; you can pick up a pet and in the same store buy everything he/she needs.
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Old January 17th, 2007, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiNKy View Post
what are puppy mills?

One of the most horrific place you can find a loved pet:sad: You can google "puppymill" and just look at the pictures....they speak louder than words
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  #29  
Old January 17th, 2007, 09:11 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Go here to learn about puppymills: http://www.stoppuppymills.org/
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  #30  
Old January 26th, 2007, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiNKy View Post
what are puppy mills? all the pet stores in my area have dogs and cats for adoption on certain days of the week, but they are all animals from local rescue shelters. the animals cost anywhere from $65 to $85 to adopt. i always thought it was pretty convienient; you can pick up a pet and in the same store buy everything he/she needs.
I am new here and from the other side of the world.
But over here we have shops and so called animal loving stores also. One good rule to follow is.. if they charge you, it is a scam. They are even breeding for profit. The real shelters here (if they can afford) will even pay you for a year of medical services if you adopt one of their animals.

Whe i got one of my dogs, they first came to check me out. Then i had to agree to bring him in every 3 months for a check up. He had a better medical plan then i ever had.

D
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