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Old January 11th, 2009, 09:58 PM
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Pros and Cons/ problems with breeding.

Let me just preface this by saying: Pets.ca is not a pro s/n board. However most of the people who make up the forum ARE very pro spay/neuter. We tend to be very straight forward and to the point with people who come on asking breeding questions as we do not feel it is necessary to add to the overpopulation of animals. At this moment there are millions of cats and dogs a year being euthanized; some not very humanely. Unless you can truly in your heart justify wanting to breed your animal, please think twice. If you think twice and still decide to do it then please……. Think again.

Ethical breeders do not need to come to a forum of this type to ask breeding questions. They simply know how to handle the problems that can and do arise. Breeding is NOT a simple matter of putting together two animals and hoping everything works out. Ethical breeders can tell you that.
This is my attempt to help. Hopefully when you do your research you will decide to not be part of the problem but to be part of the solution. This information is mainly about dogs. It works this way for cats as well.
I will give some information and include some good sites for further reading. If any of our members would like to add information to this or add some sites please feel free.


This article was taken from:

http://dogs.about.com/cs/generalcare/p/no_breeding.htm
Why People Want To Breed Dogs, And Why They Shouldn't

Almost everybody loves puppies. Who could resist that sweet puppy breath or soft, downy fur?

Unfortunately, when it comes to dog breeding, a love of puppies is simply not enough to breed your dog. Hundreds of puppies are born every day, and hundreds of adorable puppies are put to sleep in shelters across North America. We have a serious pet overpopulation problem right now.

The Reasons People Want to Breed Their Dogs:
• I want another one just like my dog.
• I want to make money.
• I want my children to witness the miracle of birth.
• Puppies are cute, there's always people who want puppies.

The Reasons People Should NOT Breed Their Dogs:

• I want another one just like my dog.
This never works according to plan. When a dog gets pregnant, the puppies will take the father's traits, personality, and physical, and the mother's traits, and mix them up, taking some of one, some of another, and developing their own altogether. You will never get a perfect match. In stead you may end up with the worst traits of both dogs.
Even cloning a dog has proven that while a genetic match is possible, looks and temperament are still in the hands of Fate.

• I want to make money.

I can't believe people can still think they can make money off of puppies. The cost of breeding will overshadow any profits you think to make. The puppies need their first shots before going to their new homes, the mother needs frequent check-ups, and heaven forbid if something goes wrong. And something always goes wrong.
• I want my children to witness the miracle of birth.
This "miracle" can now be easily viewed by both children and adults thanks to such wonderful programming as "A Baby Story" and "Maternity Ward", both available on cable television.

Not only that, but how much of a "miracle" will your child be seeing if your beloved pet dies halfway through delivery?

• Puppies are cute, there's always people who want puppies.
No, unfortunately this is the most ignorant assumption made these days. Not everybody wants puppies. Hundreds die everyday because of the lack of homes. How heartbreaking to hold a twelve week old puppy and put her to sleep because somebody thought for sure there would be somebody else who wanted her.
For every puppy born, three die in shelters. There are too many out there and not enough homes for them all.

If this is not enough reasons to stop you from breeding your dog, then here are a few more:

Complications in birth and pregnancies happen all the time. You could face losing your dog to death, and all the puppies with her. Will YOU pay the $1200.00 for a much-needed emergency cesarean section when she cannot deliver the pups?
What about sexually-transmitted diseases? That stud dog you had picked out may have one. They are more common than you think.

How about genetic diseases? They abound.

Breeding is not a careless affair, it is so much more than bringing bitch and stud together during a heat cycle.

Please think it over carefully.


More web sites to check out. Please read carefully. There is a lot of very useful information both pro and con.

http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/breeding.html

http://www.thepetcenter.com/gen/dbb.html
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!

Last edited by 14+kitties; January 12th, 2009 at 07:50 AM.
  #2  
Old January 11th, 2009, 10:56 PM
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More sites from other members of the forum.....

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/breeding/breeder2.html

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/breeding/breeder3.html

And then please watch this video:

http://www.brightlion.com/InHope/InHope_en.aspx
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
  #3  
Old January 15th, 2009, 10:53 PM
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Excellent thread....I am so glad that it was made a sticky.



Yes, I have posted those sites many times. Here is another from the same website...

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/breeder.html


As well as this one with lots of links to check out....

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/breeding.html
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Old January 16th, 2009, 10:06 PM
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Sorry Rainbow. I should have given you credit. Bad me!!
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
  #5  
Old January 16th, 2009, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
Sorry Rainbow. I should have given you credit. Bad me!!
OH NO......I wasn't looking for any credit at all.

You, and many others have posted really great informative information in alot of threads on this board.

I just hope that this thread helps to educate as many people as possible.
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Old January 17th, 2009, 09:09 AM
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erykah1310 erykah1310 is offline
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A little explanation of ethical breeders as well as ethical buyers ( which IMO is just as important)
http://www.tibetanmastiffinfo.com/ar...-Ethical.shtml

Please read and consider what you would do in each situation... there comes times where most of the horror stories will apply, either one of them or several. Are you prepared for it?
http://www.tibetanmastiffinfo.com/br...iff-Info.shtml
Quote:
* Puppies need more than five minutes of your undivided attention.
* Puppies need to be stimulated, held, loved, spoken to & played with several times throughout the day.
* What we do as breeders is crucial to the temperament & trainability of the puppy for its entire lifetime.
* Puppies raised in garages, basements and barns as an "After Thought" for a little extra income can suffer lifelong problems as a result.
* When someone sees a hyper or ill tempered purebred, it is the REAL breeder who spends hours defending the breed we love.
* We also spend hours educating and consoling the buyer who had to relinquish their uncontrollable pet.
* In many cases, we are fostering & rehoming that pet. To be honest, I am tired of cleaning up a few other "breeder's" messes.
* The "breeder" who sold the puppy through the classifieds has changed their phone number or can't help the buyer now because "They Are Not Really Breeders" and "This Was Just A One Time Thing".... It's not that I don't want to help anyone ~ but there are only so many hours in the day.
* I don't want one of my buyers to be the next irresponsible breeder selling puppies through the classifieds and more importantly, I don't want one of my puppies to be the mother of the litter advertised in that ad.
* Unless you are prepared to take back any puppy you produce for any reason, at any time....You should not breed even one litter.
* Do you have the room, the time, the patience, the finances?
* It is not easy and it is not always profitable.
* It can be very costly.
* While you may want to produce "just one litter" because all your friends & relatives LOVE your dog.... and want a puppy "just like her", one emergency vet visit can leave you in the red.
* Those same friends & relatives usually find an excuse for not wanting the puppy once it becomes available.
* When you have puppies to place at the age of 7 weeks ~ believe me, you will be in a panic & feel desperate. Ten 7 week old puppies can be difficult to deal with if you aren't prepared.
* If you are having your first litter ~ Trust me...You won't be prepared.
* I really hate to be this graphic, but there is no other way to get my point across. I recently received a call from a person wanting to know if their dog could be in labor.
* I ask if the female's temperature had dropped. The response was "I don't know." I ask her to take her dog's temperature - and after telling her "how" to take it... the voice on the other end of the phone said "EEEEWWWWWW" Believe me, you will be doing much worse things than inserting a thermometer in the dog's rectum. If it makes you squeamish....you should not become a breeder. If you call me on the phone to ask if your female could be ready to breed and I ask you if her vulva is swollen... it would be in your best interest not to ask...."HER WHAT"??? If you do, you will probably hear a loud "Click". I am not interested in providing stud service for people who stammer & stutter when they hear the word "vulva". If you gasp & feel faint at the thought of wiping her with a tissue to let me know what color the discharge is..... Please spay your dog.
* Please, please, please THINK before you breed.... Heartbreaking things can happen during whelping. They still happen to me and they can also happen to you. Whelping females can get eclampsia during & after whelping and die. Do you know how to prevent it? Are you familiar with the symptoms?
* Puppies get stuck in the birth canal and die.
* It is often on a Sunday or in the middle of the night. Emergency C-sections are not cheap.
* What do you tell your children when you arrive home with no puppies?
* Even worse, what if their beloved Molly comes home as ashes in a cremation box?
* Whelping mothers can chew the cord too short on a puppy and the puppy can bleed to death right before your eyes.
* Puppies are sometimes born with their insides on the outside.
* Whelping mothers have been known to accidentally bite off a paw while chewing the cord or stimulating the puppy.
* Puppies can be born DEAD.
* Puppies can be born perfectly healthy and fade from "Fading Puppy Syndrome" for no apparent reason.
* What do you tell your children then?
* Puppies can die from cleft palettes, toxic milk, round worms, coccidia, giardia, parvo, distemper, upper respiratory infections...and the list goes on....Some mothers have no milk. Some mothers have bad milk.
* Are you prepared to bottle feed 10 puppies round the clock every few hours until they can drink formula from a dish? Do you know how to tube feed the small ones who are too weak to suck?
* Some puppies get colic....and you warm and rub their tummy's and walk the floor day & night praying for some sleep and listening to them cry in pain.
* What do you do with the puppies that don't survive in the middle of winter in a cold climate? Are you willing to work on a puppy that appears to be dead for twenty minutes to see if you can revive it? Are you able to emotionally handle it if you can't save it?
* Are you willing to suction mucus from a newborn puppy's nostrils using your own mouth if an emergency requires it?
* Do you know what after birth smells like? What about the mothers who retain puppies or placentas?
* They can get a severe infection and die on the operating table because you didn't know what signs to look for or how to give a shot of oxytocin.
* What will you do when a puppy is being born feet first already out of the sack, stuck in the birth canal, and the only way to get him out is to break his bones?
* Warm & Fuzzy??????
* You and your children have plenty of life's experiences to enjoy.
* Whelping is not one of them.
* It is not always the warm & fuzzy experience you are expecting.
* The things I've mentioned are some of the less graphic.
* What about studding out my male? Do your dog a huge favor and research brucellosis. If you think you can just put two dogs together and let nature take over ~ you need to think again.
* It's a bit more complicated than that.
* Have you ever seen a male that had a huge portion of his face destroyed by a female who was not ready to be bred?
* I have & it's not a pretty sight.
* Is it worth it for that one time stud fee?
* Do you REALLY want to breed your dog? Good luck.

~~author unknown~~
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Old January 11th, 2009, 10:58 PM
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TeriM TeriM is offline
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may I also add to your excellent post .

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE read all these links and help make an informed opinion.

Should I breed my dog?
Here are some good links for those who are looking to breed their dog
http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/breeding.html
http://www.nb.net/%7Ecollet/facts.htm
http://www.geocities.com/learntobreed/breedingfaq.html
http://hattrick-dals.home.att.net/Breeding.html

Why do people get so frustrated with people who are breeding their dogs? My breed doesn’t end up in shelters and are worth a lot of money.

http://www.petfinder.com Search your breed

Why are people referring to me as a Back yard breeder (BYB)?
http://www.nopuppymillscanada.ca/byb.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backyard_breeder
http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/reputablebreeder.html
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Old January 11th, 2009, 11:02 PM
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Thank you TeriM. This is what I was hoping for.
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
  #9  
Old January 11th, 2009, 11:32 PM
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Excellent info ladies, thank you .
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Old January 12th, 2009, 03:31 AM
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Maybe make this into a sticky? Although I would retain just Breeding Problems in the title, more people are likely to read it
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Old January 12th, 2009, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badger View Post
Maybe make this into a sticky? Although I would retain just Breeding Problems in the title, more people are likely to read it
I will contact Marko to see if he is interested in making this a sticky. Possibly change the title to Educational Breeding Problems?
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!

Last edited by 14+kitties; January 12th, 2009 at 07:49 AM.
  #12  
Old July 8th, 2010, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
we do not feel it is necessary to add to the overpopulation of animals. At this moment there are millions of cats and dogs a year being euthanized; some not very humanely.
I agree entirely with this...

Although, I would like to say that breeding dogs is an amazing thing when you do it correctly. (I have not bred any dogs, but I've read several books and seen many animal planet shows on the subject, so I don't know much about it first hand.) Despite the lack of first hand knowledge, I do know that breeding is something that must be done carefully, in many was.

Often, people make the mistake of breeding random dogs together, for fun...and then they're stuck with 6-12 mutts. (I'm not talking about "designer" breeds, I'm talking just...mutts.) I have nothing against mutts themselves, one is my best friend. What I don't like about it is that the puppies aren't "selling material". It's sad, but true. Often people want pure breds if they can get their hands on them...The mutts often end up in animal shelters, waiting to be adopted. Which is why there is no real need to breed dogs at the moment...Shelters are overflowing with puppies, adult dogs and senior dogs.

Anyway, to conclude, I agree!

SPCA : http://www.spcamonteregie.com/index.php
  #13  
Old July 9th, 2010, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SushiMutt View Post
I agree entirely with this...

Although, I would like to say that breeding dogs is an amazing thing when you do it correctly. It can be amazing when it's done by ethical breeders that have the breed's best interest in mind and have the experience, knowledge, and money to successfuly raise a litter of pups. It is never amazing when it's done by BYB's, puppy mills, etc. etc., no matter how cute the pups are

(I have not bred any dogs, but I've read several books and seen many animal planet shows on the subject, so I don't know much about it first hand.) Despite the lack of first hand knowledge, I do know that breeding is something that must be done carefully, in many was.

Often, people make the mistake of breeding random dogs together, for fun...and then they're stuck with 6-12 mutts. (I'm not talking about "designer" breeds, I'm talking just...mutts.) IMO, "designer breeds" such as labradoodles, chorkies, and all the other silly names are simply just two random dogs put together and are simply mutts. I have nothing against mutts themselves, one is my best friend. What I don't like about it is that the puppies aren't "selling material". It's sad, but true. Often people want pure breds if they can get their hands on them...The mutts often end up in animal shelters, waiting to be adopted. It's surprising just how many purebred dogs end up in shelters though, they are not all mixed breeds. At the humane society I work with, we have on average about 40-50% purebreds. Yes, people dump purebred dogs, too.Which is why there is no real need to breed dogs at the moment...Shelters are overflowing with puppies, adult dogs and senior dogs.

Anyway, to conclude, I agree!

SPCA : http://www.spcamonteregie.com/index.php
There should never be a reason to breed any two dogs while there are still millions being PTS every year simply because they do not have a home!
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Last edited by cassiek; July 9th, 2010 at 09:35 PM.
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Old July 10th, 2010, 07:49 AM
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Thread has run its course and closed at the request of the OP.
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