The Canadian Election

[Stacer]

I just realized we haven't had any discussions on here about the upcoming election.

Based on the chats we have in the regular forum it's hard to tell which way everyone leans and what their opinions are on various issues (aside from animal related issues, I think we all agree when it comes to animal rights etc...).

I heard about this website yesterday that helps you to strategically vote so that the Conservatives don't win, they use current opinion polls to determine who you should vote for to ensure the Conservative candidate in your riding doesn't win. The main premise behind the website is that since the Conservatives have such crap environmental policy, you should vote strategically to help a party who gives a damn about the environment a chance to implement a worthy environmental plan in Canada.

Anyhoo, it's www.voteforenviroment.com, you plug in your postal code and they tell you who has the best chance to defeat the Conservative candidate in your specific riding.

I guess you can tell I'm a lefty tree hugger

I think I'll include an anonymous poll in this thread

[Frenchy]

This year , I really , really don't know for who to vote. I don't trust any of the "popular" parties.

[Stacer]

Frenchy, I think alot of people feel that way and they're not comfortable voting for the lesser evil, so they're just not voting at all.

I like Stephane Dion, despite his lack of fluency in english which seems to bother alot of people (bizarre reason not to vote for a man), I think he sounds like a very genuine, honest man. I think alot of anglo Canadians see him as a bit of a sissy/dork or something, but if they watched and could understand the french debate (I watched some but didn't understand alot), you can see his confidence speaking in his first language and I hope that changed alot of people's perspective of him.

I'm still not voting for him, but I like him and I would be OK if he wins.

[aslan]

stacer doesn't the knew carbon tax he wants to introduce concern you.

[TeriM]

I am voting Liberal mostly because the guy in our riding does a good job for us. Hubby actually used to work (indirectly) for the guy pre-politics and he was fairly well respected. I hate Harper, don't trust him a bit. Dion has definately grown on me a bit with this election but I still think they made a mistake with choosing him . The french thing is a bigger deal in Western Cda where we already feel shunned by the "power center" .

I highly doubt the Liberals (if they win) will be bringing in any carbon tax stuff in the current economic environment. In fact I don't really think anyone is going to win ... we probably will end up with another minority government and that is fine with me .

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by TeriM

. we probably will end up with another minority government

yep , same here.

[Schwinn]

I saw a commercial that, quite frankly, scared the hell out of me if the Liberals get in. They said they were going to reverse the income trust promise that Harper broke. That was one of the few times a politician ever broke a promise I was okay with. In my limited understanding, a company could convert to an income trust, and profits were protected from being taxed. All was well and good, until Telus announced they were going to convert into an income trust. Then BCE announced they were going to convert Bell into one as well. Suddenly, there were other companies starting to look that way as well. This meant BILLIONS of dollars worth of taxes would disappear. Now, with the current economic outlook, what do you think this would do to the economy? Suddenly, the US will look like the richest family in the trailer park!

As for Jack Layton, he's either the king of pandering, a liar, or just not that well informed. I stopped liking him when he was on Toronto council. One quick story. They were looking at turning an old mine into a dump (Adams mine in Kirkland lake). I have a client who was some type of geo engineer explain to me that the bedrock in the bottom of the mine was inpenetrable, it is impossible for anything to leach out. When I asked about the water, he explained it was not leaching up, but rather rain water. "That's a lot of rain water!" "That's what happens when it can't leach out!!" Anyway, Layton paid for a bus from Kirkland lake to bring down the good citizen's who did not want a dump there, and every station showed "the man of the people" pounding the pulpit about how Kirkland Lake did NOT want a dump, "And look, there they are up there!!" and we got to see the screaming "masses". Interestingly enough, and coincidently, Mrs. Schwinn had recently moved from Kirkland Lake, and was incredulous. "You want to know how many people don't want a dump? They all fit on that bus!" I'm getting long-winded here, so the short version is that the dump was defeated, and Kirkland Lake continued to be a depressed town (I went through a "tour" on our way to Thunder Bay). The next municipal election, not one councillor who voted against the dump (and took Mr. Layton's bus ride) was re-elected. Turns out, the town did want it, and saw it as a saviour of the town.

Anyway, this brings me to present day (see? I have a point!) Now he's talking about protecting the people from the big bad banks. Last week, it was stopping the banks from failing the way they have in the states (absolutely, without a doubt, impossible. Can not happen) This week, it's about how the banks are gouging the people by not dropping the prime rate. Now, don't get me wrong, I'll call the banks when they do something wrong, and I really don't like banking. However, what he ISN'T telling everyone is the reason--the cost of borrowing has sky-rocketed for the banks (heard of the "credit crunch"? That's it) By NOT dropping the rate as much, there is hope that it will ease the credit restrictions, and allow the banks to lend. But, no, banks are greedy and THAT'S why they did it. Even though, according to Layton, last week they were in danger of failing like the US banks. So what is it? They're in danger of bankruptcy, or they're taking extra-profit where it isn't needed?? Well, there is no danger of failure, but I can also tell you that we had a meeting today, and the quote was "Don't spend your bonus before you get it...you might be disappointed" (which, by the way, I was hoping MIGHT be enough to pay for the snow tires for the car. Now, I'm not so sure).

Sorry, I went off on a tangent. What really irritates me is I don't think ANYONE is being truly honest, save for Gilles Duceppe when he said, "Let's face it, three of us here have no chance to be Prime Minister". Today, people are all about the sound bite, and politicians pander to that, truth be damned. "I'll say what will get me elected." For all the chances Jack Layton has, he might as well promise, "I'll put a giraffe in every backyard, and a clown at your door on your birthday!!". Actually, I'm surprised he hasn't. I'm not crazy about any of the choices, so I'll probably pick the scenario that scares me the least.

[Dracko]

Great post Schwinn.

I so don't understand how people get caught up in the fear mongering many of the parties participate in. Seems many people vote not FOR someone but cast a vote AGAINST someone because a party claims xxx party will do "something baaaaaaaaaaaaad."

And how can someone vote for a party because of only ONE issue? There has to be a balance of what is best in ALL issues and not just a overfocus on one to win votes.

I watched the Leader's Debate on TV the other night. You've got people like Layton beating down the idea that Harper has given "big business" tax breaks. Then in the next sentence he complains about jobs being lost. Oh so, what...Layton gets in, taxes the hell out of big business and he thinks industry is gonna stay here????? I'm not saying large companies need to be handed everything by any means, but there has to be a balance. Something written in our paper put made it pretty clear to me:

Layton says Harper will give big corporations $50 billion in tax relief. If elected Layton says he will stop the giveaway to companies and concentrate on the real drivers of the economy, welfare.

Now, that was written with a sense of humor but given all of Layton's promises you can tell that is who is pandering to in an effort to win votes.

[Love4himies]

Oh, Schwinn, as I have said so many times about your posts - WELL SAID!!!!!

I can't afford the Liberal Carbon Tax, that will kill the farmers, those who live in rural areas who have to heat their homes by oil and don't have the luxury of public transportation to get around. Plus as anybody knows in a depressed economy YOU DON'T IMPLEMENT NEW TAXES!!!!

I hear Dion barking alot about our banks, but has he checked the financial position of our banks before he started his barking, nope. That is not who I want to lead our country. Plus, as seen in the US, gov't can't control the stock markets, what did Dion think Harper should do??? The best thing that could have been done is for investors to not panic. Oh yeah, that was what Harper was suggesting!

Plus the Liberals sent our wonderful miliatry over to Afghanistan SO POORLY TRAINED (BECAUSE OF THEIR HUGE MILITARY CUTBACKS OVER THE YEARS) and EQUIPED. They had NO consideration for their lives and until the conservatives got into power, they continued to be poorly trained and equipped. So anybody who votes Liberal, in my book does not support our troops and their mission. Thank goodness the Conservatives are spending those billions to keep our troups safe. Sorry, as for the ARTS, as long as we have other priorities, arts should be the bottom of the list. As Harper said, the average Canadian who is struggling to make ends meet, don't give about the rich and their arts, let those who want it support it. (Think there are alot of rich actors out there)

As for Jack Layton, well I would consider voting for him because in 2016 I can stop working and won't BE LIVING IN POVERTY . Don't know who is going to pay for all wonderful living because we can all quit working????????????

The green party is for dreamers who don't realize the true impact on the economy if Koyoto was implemented (I believe 30% of our air pollution comes from heating homes/buildings in our cold winters, so Koyoto will be extremely tough on CDN businesses) . It is a nice dream, but would be devastating for the economy. Very easy decision for Conglomerate corps to make a decision: stay in Canada and implement all those costly pollution control devices or move to China? Hmmmmm, can you say HUGE recession.
Not that I don't believe in controlling it, but conservation starts at home, how about not going through the drive thrus and shutting off your car and going in.

[Love4himies]

Love your post too, Dracko, yup, those on welfare are such huge contributors to our economy . Not saying there shouldn't be welfare, but hey it is well known there is abuses of it and it should be very temporary and should only be a supplement, not full support. I am not talking about those with disabilites, but those who are able bodied and want to sit on their asses. I say take the money for those able bodied people and give to those who have the disabilities, now that is one group of people who I would like to see not be poverty stricken. But remember in the year 2016 if Layton gets in we can all enjoy welfare and not have to work .

[Love4himies]

Wew, felt good to get it all out.

[bendyfoot]

I'm with Schwinn, Dracko and L4H. No point in reiterating what was already well said. Only one other thing: JACK WILL YOU PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF PETE GET OVER THE FREAKING SWEATER AND GET SOME NEW MATERIAL!!!! No, Harper is not a warm and fuzzy man, but he's a good, solid, steady man with what I beleive are the best intentions for the long-term good of the country. And I'm not a "big C Conservative", I've voted Green and NDP in the past. But I'm sticking with the way I voted in the last Federal election, because I think he's on the right track. And don't get me started about the Green Shift

[Love4himies]

Originally Posted by bendyfoot

I'm with Schwinn, Dracko and L4H. No point in reiterating what was already well said. Only one other thing: JACK WILL YOU PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF PETE GET OVER THE FREAKING SWEATER AND GET SOME NEW MATERIAL!!!! No, Harper is not a warm and fuzzy man, but he's a good, solid, steady man with what I beleive are the best intentions for the long-term good of the country. And I'm not a "big C Conservative", I've voted Green and NDP in the past. But I'm sticking with the way I voted in the last Federal election, because I think he's on the right track. And don't get me started about the Green Shift

[Chris21711]

I will not be voting:

Stephen Harper - Too smug - I loathe smug people

Jack Layton - Was great for the City of Toronto along with his wife Olivia Chow - Should have stuck with the City

Stephane Dion - Unfortunately his command of the English language will probably be held against him. He is quite difficult to understand and I think that this matters.

It would not surprise me if the Conservatives obtain a slight majority, but I hope not.

[kanis]

Originally Posted by Love4himies

So anybody who votes Liberal, in my book does not support our troups and their mission.

I support Canadian troops 100%. As a historian and an educator, I completely understand why we have soldiers in Afghanistan. That is such an ignorant comment.

[Love4himies]

Originally Posted by kanis

I support Canadian troops 100%. As a historian and an educator, I completely understand why we have soldiers in Afghanistan. That is such an ignorant comment.

And what is your direct knowledge of the conditions that the troops were sent over with for you to make that comment about me?

Why we have troops over there has nothing to do with a gov't making a decision to send them into a war after years of them making military cutbacks. These are sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, etc. whose lifes depend on up to date equipment and vigorous training. If gov't wants to make that decision, then ensure they have to tools to do it.

If you knew how they were sent over, you would not be saying that. It was Harper that spent the funds give the equipment that was needed. DH is in the military and has a fairly high position in the Army Training System, I know what I am talking about.

[pitgrrl]

Originally Posted by Love4himies

Sorry, as for the ARTS, as long as we have other priorities, arts should be the bottom of the list. As Harper said, the average Canadian who is struggling to make ends meet, don't give about the rich and their arts, let those who want it support it. (Think there are alot of rich actors out there)

It astounds me that the "arts" are seen as some sort of disposable luxury which in no way contribute to the cultural and economic vitality of a country. Equally perplexing to me is the idea that anyone involved in the arts, a side from perhaps a very few private collectors who typically are making their money in other industries, are even remotely rich.

Artists are regular people too (I actually can't believe I even had to write that lol). They worry about making ends meet, they work hard, they're trying to survive along with everyone else.

Art is vital to the cultural and economic vitality of a country, to see it as disposable is a mistake.

[Chris21711]

Originally Posted by pitgrrl

It astounds me that the "arts" are seen as some sort of disposable luxury which in no way contribute to the cultural and economic vitality of a country. Equally perplexing to me is the idea that anyone involved in the arts, a side from perhaps a very few private collectors who typically are making their money in other industries, are even remotely rich.

Artists are regular people too (I actually can't believe I even had to write that lol). They worry about making ends meet, they work hard, they're trying to survive along with everyone else.

Art is vital to the cultural and economic vitality of a country, to see it as disposable is a mistake.

I agree with you entirely pitgrrl, most artists are p*ss poor, the ones that make money at it are very few and far between.

Art expands the mind, it is a shame that more people don't take an interest in it.