considering e-collar... opinions needed please

[technodoll]

as a last resort, we are considering buying an e-collar for our incredibly stubborn dog... he is a 110 lbs male akita, very smart but also very unwilling to heel on the leash no matter what. training only works while with the trainer, when with us he will not obey. outside holds way too many interesting smells and stimuli for him.

we tried a halti, he learned to pull with his head at a 45 degree angle. we tried halter-type leashes, he will yank us off our feet and get sores under his elbows. pinch collars have ripped the fur out of his neck, chokers make him pass out as he cuts the blood supply to his head from pulling. we are at our wit's end. he sees another dog or any distraction and will pull so hard, he faints! we both have shoulder and neck injuries! and now a few days ago, his once-beautiful-thick neck fur has been rubbed raw in two places from pulling and his skin is red, sore, and starting to bleed. it is breaking our hearts, we want the pulling to stop and for him to heel properly. and yes he knows how to heel, perfectly, but chooses NOT to. he is otherwise an angel, very well-behaved and totally the beta in the house.

so, him being so smart yet so stubborn, we thought that using an e-collar would be a good, humane solution to teach him what is acceptable behavior, and what is not. either this, or he will bleed from his sore, furless neck and not be walked anymore. does anyone here have any input, good or bad, any experiences on this? please help!

[Prin]

E collar? Umm.. Like the ones for not licking at wounds and incisions? Or E as in electric?

Have you tried the newtrix one yet? If not, bring your doggy to any store that sells them and ask to try it out. If the store has any customer service at all, they'll show you how to use it and let you test it for a bit. I'm telling you, this one is different.

http://newtrix.ca/docs/ourproducts.php

No pulling angle will be a good angle. Boo lunges still when he sees squirrels, bunnies and cats but with this sucker on, he doesn't even move. It's a principle like grabbing the neck fur on a cat- you know, the instinct thing. This is supposed to mimic how the mother doggy corrects the pups (right behind the head). Some dogs still pull on it though- which is why I say try it out before buying and make sure you have it fit properly and put on properly..

[Puppyluv]

Do you mean these babies: http://www.ecollarstore.com/professional-trainers.html ?
My parents used one on our dal years ago, but it never really worked. Then again, she had an entirely different personality from Dakotah... she wasn't the brightest lightbulb out there (But bless her heart). I think it would be worth a try though.
I agree with Prin on the Newtrix. Layla has one, and though she's not much of a puller anyways, this eliminates all of it, even when a squirrel is near by (otherwise unheard of!!)
I hope his neck feels better soon though.

[kaytris]

which harnesses did you try? And what training methods did the trainer have success with?

The problems with e-collars are

a) that your timing must be impeccable - you have to push the button the INSTANT the leash goes tight - wait too long, and you may correct for a loose leash

b) what you want him to learn (tight leash=shock) may NOT be what he does end up learning.. for example, my trainer worked with a border collie that chased the family cat - owners got impatient and went to electronics. Dog went after cat, owner pressed button, child laughed - and dog made association "children's laughter=pain" . It started nipping at the child every time she laughed, and if I remember rightly, dog was either rehomed or euthanized.

A couple of really good articles on teaching loose leash walking
http://www.clickersolutions.com/arti...02/pulling.htm
http://www.clickersolutions.com/arti.../advicellw.htm
http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/archives/leash.txt

[BMDLuver]

It's just a suggestion, not a criticism.. but don't you think that perhaps if he was neutered he would become more focused on you and not every smell etc around him?

[kaytris]

Oh, he's intact? Yes, neutering him will more than likely refocus him on you, rather than "FIND THE GIRL FIND THE GIRL". I neutered my lab at 13 months, and within 2 months, it was like night and day - from completely distracted to a velcro boy who loved to please me

[buffytwin]

[QUOTE=Prin]Have you tried the newtrix one yet? If not, bring your doggy to any store that sells them and ask to try it out. If the store has any customer service at all, they'll show you how to use it and let you test it for a bit. I'm telling you, this one is different.

http://newtrix.ca/docs/ourproducts.php


I agree, my boxer pulled like crazy, I tried everything from Harnests to a Gentle Leader, but all that did was make him turn his head everytime I pulled back. I just got thes Newtrix and it works amazing!!! I can't begin to tell you the difference its made. Our walks are now stress free, and when he see's another dog or anything that catches his eye he can't pull if he tried. I've also found that it seems he's stopped even trying to pull, I totally recommend it! Well worth the $40 bucks I paid for it! Good luck!

Oh and I was somewhat the same about how it appears to look like a muzzle, its not that I care what people think, I just don't want people thinking he's vicious, soooooooo many people come up to me and say awwwwww poor thing, has to wear that around his face, like I'm a bad mom, that drives me nuts! But you know what, I don't care, with the Newtrix we both enjoy our walk 10 times more, forget about other people. Once you've walked him a hundred times in your neighborhood they'll get to you know you anyway and know your dog is loving and not vicious... I have to explain everytime, that if he doesn't wear it he walks me, lol...

[mummummum]

There was something wrong with their website when I visited today (uhhh I guess that's yesterday now) and I am having difficulty picturing how this fits differently from a Gentle Leader and where it's control points are distinct from a Halti/ Gentle Leader etc. - does anyone have pix with it on your dog?

I am not happy with Ceili and her collar (one of these days I'll post a picture of her doing her "NO, I'm NOT going and you CAN'T make me. You're NOT the boss of me" faces). And I don't want to necessarily go back to the Gentle Leader since SHE hated it.

for the hijack Technodoll - but enquiring minds gotta know!

[Prin]

This is the pic from their website. The thicker part (black and red in the pic) goes around the muzzle with the big ring under the chin and the rest (all red part) goes behind the ears and clips onto the leash. The difference is, if they pull, it tightens the part that goes from ear to ear behind the ears. Like where the red in the pic meets the black (the two rings in the middle), the red part tightens when pulled. See how one red strap goes from one ring to the other? That is what tightens behind the head. Does that make sense?

I'd show you a pic, but an all black newtrix on an all black doggy doesn't show one bit.
(I've edited this so many times to try to make more sense, but I just can't. )

[buffytwin]

Im at work right now, but if no one has posted a picture when I get home I'll take one of Rex and show you, I know that the picture from the site is hard to imagine, although if you go on the site it does show it on a dog. But the big difference is like Prin said, i pulls from the back of his head, rather then his chin, where a Gentle Leader would pull. When you pull back using a Gentle Leader all it does is turn his head back, and I read articles that its not good in the long run as it can cause problems, can't remember what exactly but something to do with the neck and back muscles. But when you pull the Newtrix it pulls the back of his head, and it tightens the muzzle piece, it only does that when the dog pulls. I find after 1 week of wearing it, Rex doesn't even attempt to pull anymore, unless he see's another dog, but in general he just walks beside me now. If you read the website I beleive it does explain all that, probably better then me Good luck!

[we3beagles]

Does anyone else's dog hate the Newtrix lead. I tried all the recommendations on the package and the behaviour expert gave me some more, but Soozie still grabs it off her face every chance she gets. She gets so frustrated when it won't come off that she goes a little crazy and sometimes scratches herself. I totally agree it works though. I no longer have to put my arms back in their sockets when I get back from a walk. She still pulls a little though as she is very stubborn, but only with this one thing. Everything else she has been totally easy to train. Perhaps her prey drive is just too strong. The foundation I rescued her from is for ex hunting dogs. I think she has hunted in the past and just goes after everything that moves. Any suggestions on what else to try? How long will she have to wear the Newtrix lead before she gets it do you think. She has been wearing it every walk for 2 months now and still doesn't get that she can't pull.

[jessi76]

Originally Posted by we3beagles

I think she has hunted in the past and just goes after everything that moves. Any suggestions on what else to try? How long will she have to wear the Newtrix lead before she gets it do you think. She has been wearing it every walk for 2 months now and still doesn't get that she can't pull.

she won't just "get it", she needs to be taught.

look up Tenderfoot's "be a post" method. Literally BE A POST when your dog pulls. don't move. the dog needs to learn pulling will NOT get her ahead.

You can also try to change direction. When walking, dog pulls, turn & go the other way. or start going backwards. If my dog pulls, we take steps BACK, not ahead. (I walked around in circles for a while)

keep the dog at your side - so it learns not to walk in front of you, or pull you down the street. When the dog starts to get ahead, walk INTO the dog, making a tight circle into her. this literally cuts off the dog's path, and forces the dog to watch you - stay with you, and follow your lead.

My dog is also a hound, and would choose to just sniff everything, going off to this side, that side, in front, behind me... on the advice of my trainer, I taught "heel" in a fenced area with NO leash. I just walked around the fenced area at a normal pace, and EVERY time the dog was walking nicely by my side, he got rewarded. then I re-introduced the leash.

I agree the harnesses are a great tool, and can be a lifesaver when out in a very distracting place, but really they are just a tool, and proper leash manners still need to be taught.

[Puppyluv]

Originally Posted by Prin

I'd show you a pic, but an all black newtrix on an all black doggy doesn't show one bit.
(I've edited this so many times to try to make more sense, but I just can't. )

Here ya go:









If you've ever put a horse harness on, it's a lot like that, just no bitt. They come with great instructions too, figured it out first try. (and showed the sales girl at the same time!)

[Puppyluv]

It should be loose enough for a full yawn, and some slack on the sides, but not loose enough to fall off.

[technodoll]

the pawtisserie petshop has the newtrix collars on backorder, they will call me when the shipment comes in... i reserved a size L! should be within a few days... can't wait! hoping it works, looks like a fine training tool!

[Prin]

omg that second one of layla is adorable.

They don't like the newtrix too much I think- Boo rubs his face on strangers that approach him. But after he associated it with long peaceful walks where he doesn't get yelled at at all, he doesn't really mind it and gets excited when I pull it off the hook.

I hope the large fits- Boo is a large...