Am I expecting to much.

[Joey.E.CockersMommy]

Since we've had Joey he has always seem to have some aggression issues with other dogs. At first both male and female and now specifically larger male dogs.

I would like Joey to get along with all dogs but I am beginning to think maybe that is to much to expect from him. He is six and somewhat set in his ways.

When I first got Joey he would immediatley growl and bark at the other dog. Now the growling doesnt happen until he is actually sniffing the dog. Then its very sudden. It is always with larger male dogs, and always Joey is the first one to growl. My fear is that one day the other dog may retalitate back at Joey. Also this seems to happen on or off the leash.

I would like to continue to provide Joey opportunitys to get used to other dogs. Yesterday we went into the petstore, except I did wait until a large male dog had left the store to go in. The dog was a big old friendly Mastiff. I thought it would be a good opportunity for Joey, but then I didnt want to put Joey in a situation where I knew he would be set up for failure. The dog was off leash in the store too, and Joey was on a leash which I know wouldn't be in Joeys favour.

I am starting to think that maybe the dog park as well is not a good place for Joey. Because of his agression with big male dogs.

I am also thinking about enrolling Joey in obedience again and continiung to go on a regular basis just so Joey can continue to be used to other dogs.

He did great at the first set of classes, and got used to all the dogs being around him.

[BMDLuver]

Do you have doggie daycare in your area? If so, I would suggest taking him there once a week and explaining to them that you wish to work on large dog aggression. I've known many who have done this and it works wonders. Also, it's not any more costly than weekly obedience. Just a suggestion.

[Writing4Fun]

Our obedience school has classes geared specifically towards working on dog agression (the dogs must enter and leave muzzled so there are no skirmishes in the doorway). Ask around at a few obedience schools in your area to see if they offer something similar.

[Joey.E.CockersMommy]

Thanks those are both great suggestions, I am going to look into both of these. I really don't want to avoid situations involving other dogs with Joey as I know that is just avoiding the problem and not dealing with it.

Anyways I am going to check in to both daycare and more training. I am going to call the kennel in our area and contact Joeys old trainer to see if she has any suggestions or does classes that deal with dog aggression.

[Daisy_Mae]

This is a great topic, something very similiar to my situation and I would love to hear more!

I have come to the conclusion with our dog that she was undersocialized at a pup and isolated from people and dogs most of her life. She cannot read dog signals so she is always on the defense not sure if they are friendly or not. She wants to see the dog, then gets to them and as soon as they try and sniff her or come too close she lunges and growls. Then she turns around wondering why they are leaving and wants to follow. The odd dog she is fine with right from the get-go.

I am glad you know what type of dogs set your dog off, I have yet to figure that out only that possibly well socialized dogs that do not get overly hyper seem to make her comfortable.

I don't think you are asking too much that your boy can be social, but liking every dog he meets is a high expectation for any dog.

Personally I don't like dog parks, if you know everyone there and their dogs then it's great but otherwise they make me nervous because the other dogs could be aggressive or the owner has no control of them.

[Joey.E.CockersMommy]

Daisy Mae =

I have come to the conclusion with our dog that she was undersocialized at a pup and isolated from people and dogs most of her life. She cannot read dog signals so she is always on the defense not sure if they are friendly or not. She wants to see the dog, then gets to them and as soon as they try and sniff her or come too close she lunges and growls. Then she turns around wondering why they are leaving and wants to follow. The odd dog she is fine with right from the get-go.

Joey is exactly the same way, to be truthful I am not really confident in saying he does get along with all small dogs, often he is growly and stand offish at first then seems okay once he has met the dog. The first week we had him he instigated fights with two small female dogs. This seems better now and I have seen him get along with both small male and female dogs. But to be honest I am not confident that he would get along with all of them without being introduced to them first.

I did contact a kennel in our area that we have used in the past for boarding, they provide doggie daycare. I really love this kennel and hope Joey can go visit with the other doggies once or twice a week.

http://www.hycountrykennels.com/control.htm
Daycare Service

Our Doggie Daycare service is now in the second year of operation. We have an excellent group of “regulars” which visit between 3 and 5 days per week. Our daycare service consists of plenty of socializing, exercise and free time. Quiet times are encouraged and usually welcomed. Breed, personality, physical conditioning, activity level, likes and dislikes all play a role in designing the activities for each pets' daily schedule.

Good luck with Daisy-Mae

[tenderfoot]

Do you like everyone you meet?
Joey is older and more set in his ways but that doesn't mean he can't learn to control his impulses. He just needs help doing it and learning how to behave. You have already come a long way, but he may never be like a soft tempered Golden. He has his own temperament and experiences which have molded his behavior. You can keep asking him to do better, and with that you also need to gain skills and experience to help him succeed. This is a partnership and you are the one leading the dance.

[StaceyB]

I think you have already stated what you need to do. As you have found out there are many things that take place in classes besides cues that you just can't duplicate at home. If he got used to all the dogs in his class it means that this is not hopeless. It means that he can learn to accept all other dogs.
Don't give up on him he will get through it. Unfortunately it may take longer than you expected. Whatever you do don't stop socializing with other dogs.
How many new dogs does he meet each week. He needs to go places where he can meet new ones all the time. It isn't any help if he only meets the odd dog in the neighbourhood or only dogs he already knows.

[Joey.E.CockersMommy]

Stacey B

How many new dogs does he meet each week. He needs to go places where he can meet new ones all the time. It isn't any help if he only meets the odd dog in the neighbourhood or only dogs he already knows

Most of Joeys meeting with other dogs are while on wallks with me. I try to walk by the large dogs and keep Joey on the a loose leash. I always tell the other owner that I am working on socializing Joey with other dogs that Joey is a bit scared of big male dogs and usually will growl at them. I dont really like it when the owner insists that there dogs meet up close because thats when Joey will lunge and snap at the other dog. I would rather have Joey meet at a distance at first even if its just a foot away. He doesnt seem to do very good with the abrupt up and sniff method.

I think he has come a long way, but I think he just needs to overcome this one thing. HE will be going up to the kennel once or twice a week to get some doggie socialization in.

[StaceyB]

Sounds like a good idea. If you are nervous his reaction will be greater. Rather than have him on an extended leash I would set him up into a sit at the foot away and hold it for 5-10 sec before continuing by.

[Joey.E.CockersMommy]

WE can do that Joey is awesome at the sit, should I make him do a downstay or is sit okay.

My husband doesnt think doggie daycare will make a difference, but I disagree as I often do with my hubby. I certainly dont think it will hurt and it will be good for Joey to socialise with other dogs too.

[Prin]

I just have an aversion to doggy daycare. I worked at one and the dogs were left alone a lot more than they should have been. If you can stay and watch maybe, but I don't know about long term things...

I just have to say- about the thread title- it makes me laugh.

Am I expecting to much

I'm still expecting my dogs to form complete sentences...

[StaceyB]

Joey.E, A sit is just fine. The reasons why you should do this is because I think you may be adding to the problem by being nervous of his reaction. When you avoid or keep him from getting too close it may appear to him that he has reason to react. If you are nervous, same thing. When getting him to sit and I would add a watch me while you are holding it. A couple things will happen by doing this. First it will help to break your focus on what could happen because you are now going to focus on getting him to do something for you. It also tells him that his behaviour is not going to send the other dog away.
If you are nervous every time he approaches another dog he may think that the dog may do you or him harm. You being nervous gives him reason to believe his behaviour is correct for the situation. You are nervous because you are scared of what he may do but he doesn't know this, as far as his is concerned this other dog wants to rip his head off.

[tenderfoot]

I think the daycare wold be good but what you really need to do is improve the behavior when you are walking which means that thats what you need to be practicing. Is your trainer available to meet you in the park? I think that you need to get some confidence in your skills so that when you see another dog you can stand tall and take charge - no worries. To do this it would be good to experience it with someone by your side talking you through the choices you make and the reactions you have. Once you see it work a few times you will take an important emotional deep breath and relax. From then on you will have more faith in yourself and Joey.
He still is not convinced of your ability to keep him safe with big dogs. Giving him jobs is important, so is the 'leave it' command. You also need to be willing to correct him with enough energy to get his attention. I don't mean be super harsh but you can be intense (just not so much that you intimidate him). Walk away from the object of desire if he can't handle it and then try again. You will make more progress going backwards than forwards until he figures it out. Work towards success don't give up on failure. This might mean that you have to ask the person with the big dog to stand still for a minute or two while you train Joey. Most people are happy to help.

[Daisy_Mae]

Oh boy Joey.E does you situation every sound identical to mine! I question if I am the problem all the time and if my reactions are making it worse. Daisy has actually gotten worse since I got her so I imagine my reactions to her greeting dogs and my nervousness have made things escalate. I am not so nervous now that she wears a head collar but her reactions seem to be programmed now. I know how you feel about people wanting their dogs to rush up to yours when you want to take is slow from a bit of a distance. Love those off leash dogs!!

I bring in foster dogs from time to time and of course Daisy is never nice for the first greeting no matter where it is. The last dog I had a volunteer bring over to my house when my husband was home. They walked right in the door with the dog and there was no bad reaction from Daisy...hmm....wonder if there is a good daycare so I can see if she behaves when I am not around.

[tenderfoot]

Hi Daisy Mae - you are correct in thinking that you share in the responsibility of your dogs reactions to other dogs. Time and time again we work with peoples dogs and the second we have the leash in our hands the dog is great but when we literally hand the leash to the person the dog is bad again.
Once we even tested it by having the person hand the leash to us from behind the dogs back (so he wouldn't see us doing it) and he transformed the second Doug had the leash in his hand. Talk about feeling the energy through the leash.

[Daisy_Mae]

So what would people in my position do about trying to get your dog to relax when walking with you? It's not like my husband will get up and walk her, so it's my problem at this point. My understanding is she isn't feeling confident that I going to protect her or us so she lashes out?

The big question mark at this point is do I continue to keep letting her meet and greet dogs, will I make it worse? Do I correct her for growling and lunging? Or am I instilling the fear that when she sees a dog mom will give her a correction so she therefore associates greeting dogs with geting in trouble.

SOrry, not trying to hijack the thread but this is my BIGGEST issue and the trainer I have just tells me not to greet other dogs and I think that is avoiding the situation. Just like she told me not to give her Pigs Ears and rawhides since she will growl at me when I get close, what is that solving?