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Old September 21st, 2008, 07:05 AM
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LavenderRott LavenderRott is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
How can a breed be standardized when the individuals differ so greatly? Little dogs (sub-30 pounds) big dogs (50-60 pounds), smooth coat, rough coat, a multitude of colours - yet why does everyone who thinks of a border collie think of a fluffy black and white dog with perfect white markings?
Breed standards differ from breed to breed and are set by the National breed club. You certainly wouldn't judge a border collie by the rottweiler standard! The breed standard for the rottweiler is the same in virtually every country they are registered in with the exception of the tail. European bred and whelped dogs have tails and most bred and whelped in the U.S and Canada do not.

The reason that most people think that border collies are black and white fluffy dogs with perfect white markings is because that is the prevelant picture most people see. It clearly states in the AKC breed standard that all colors are allowed and the only fault in white markings are that they shouldn't be predominant. You can read the standard for yourself here: http://www.akc.org/breeds/border_collie/index.cfm

Now, I don't hang out with border collie people but I do hang out with rottweiler people and many of them are not only very active in showing in conformation, but they also herd, track and do schutzhund. While most but conformation titles on their dogs first (a dog who works is often leaner and more muscular then most AKC judges like to see) this does not mean that a dog doesn't see sheep or ducks until it gets a championship. Most are exposed and have started training long before they trial.

Quote:
I think that border collies are quite versatile enough to be able to do anything you want with them, but that breeding them for conformation will affect the breed, maybe not immediately but down the road. Do you put a herding title on them first and then enter the showring, and do no breeding until your dog has been proven in both areas? Or do you put their show championship on them first and then attempt herding, possibly to find out that maybe this particular dog doesn't quite have what it takes to excel at herding. By then, have you perhaps already bred your show champion? If so, you are producing pups that look great but do not have as strong a desire to work stock. A few generations of this and the breed has been diminished to pretty dogs that have lost their original purpose, or the breed becomes divided into show dogs and working dogs. I'm sure that there would be some people who would indeed prove their dogs both ways before breeding, but not all would, in fact I'd go so far as to say that probably many wouldn't, if they're not first and foremost stockdog people.
No - honestly if I was looking for a border collie puppy I would expect to see not only titles on both ends of the name of both sire and dam - but I would expect to see OFA or PENN numbers for both certifying hips, elbows and hearts and I would expect CERFs certifying eyes. Certifications can't be done before a dog's 2nd birthday anyway - so you have plenty of time for showing before you even consider breeding. The point of breeding is to preserve the breed - so you breed the best to the best. If your show dog doesn't show a lot of working drive - then you breed to a dog that does. Provided, of course, that your working dog also meets the standard and has been shown to PROVE that it meets the standard.

You may well be right that the borders' work ethic will decline due to recognition by the CKC. To be honest - the sight of a show German Shepherd makes me cry. I honestly can't see how those poor dogs can NOT have hip and elbow issues as the breed them for the look they are now. Used to be, they were stacked in the ring to get that long, low look.

The trick is to EDUCATE. If everyone that wanted a dog would simply do their homework - know about the breed they are interested in, from coat to temperment to health issues. Know what to look for in a REAL breeder.
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