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Old May 3rd, 2009, 05:16 PM
Promethean Promethean is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Great White North.
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by MommaKat View Post
I will never be a Brad or a Cesar fan (Promethan I have never heard of Don sullivan )
Sullivan (I think he's Canadian) used to be on a show called Good dog!, though if I remember correctly in later seasons he was replaced by a trainer who was less about leash corrections and more about teaching and rewarding desired behaviours. He now has an informercial called for the perfect dog system.

In another board that I belong to, there are people claiming the universe is only 6000 years old. I am well aware that no amount of evidence will ever convince these people that they are wrong. That is not my purpose when engaging them. The purpose is to put forth factual information and refute the irrational arguments, correct their false assertions and point out the contradictions in their thinking. Same with this topic. I don't think the Millan-istas or the Pattisonians will ever accept scientific evidence over the proclamations of their particular guru. They beleive what they believe out of emotional reasons and this makes them immune to reason - their response is to fall back on persona attacks.

I answer for the lurkers, those who haven't made up their minds. Those on the fence or not familiar with modern thinking may be persuaded by their false arguments. If you know that Schenkel, who was one of the originators of this this alpha/dominanc eventually abandoned the concept then you likely look at claims of "alpha" with suspicion. If you know that no modern wolf or dog researcher uses this concept then you may question it when you hear the claims of self proclaimed television experts. If you know that this was based on non-family wolves held captive in a tiny enclosure, then you might get a better understanding of the aggression that was observed. The information is provided to those who don't know. The ones who confuse belief with knowledge are beyond the reach of reason. I won't go into the logic of it in order not to leave out the electrical engineers in the audience.

As Mech writes:
"The issue is not merely one of semantics or political correctness. It is one of biological correctness such that the term we use for breeding wolves accurately captures the biological and social role of the animals rather than perpetuate a faulty view".

On one hand we have a world renowned researcher whose work is cited by almost everyone in the field and OTOH we have 2 guys selling their product.

Last edited by Promethean; May 3rd, 2009 at 05:29 PM.