[Bailey_]

Thanks for your input on this subject. I've been finding it quite interesting, everyone's opinions and ideals about behavioral training (which clicker training is *not*, and yes, I have been involved with clicker training and have clients who have come to me after quite unsuccessful sessions with it - in particular a very stubborn South African Boerboel and her owner) and think it's great that there's so much awareness about what people like and don't like.

You asked if I have read anything not given to me by Brad Pattison, and I the answer is a resounding yes. I would not be the kind of dog trainer or rehabilitator I want to be, if I had not. My training experience did not start with Brad Pattison either, rather I took four years of schooling to learn animal behavior through Everest College; have six years working with two different established dog training schools in BC, and have been running my own business for four years. I have experience with treat training, clicker training, agility training, and behavioral training. I have my degree in animal science, and have had the awesome opportunity to visit the Wolf Park in Indianna.
I am very well aware of a canines body language and have much more education under my belt than what I've had the pleasure and opportunity to learn from Brad.

I completley agree with you that if something makes you uncomfortable - then you shouldn't do it. Just like I think clicker training is a complete waste of time, some people will think that Brads methods are whooey. I would never clicker train any of my clients dogs, or my own, and those who don't like Brad should find what works for them. Absolutley.

Brad gives a strong correction, for a dog that needs it. In the dominant dog world, a nice light correction to innterupt the dog - simply does not work. What do you think would be more stressful and annoying on the dog? One firm correction that it can understand? Or a million little useless tugs here and there, which do nothing but aggrivate the dog and the situation?
He does not however give a strong correction for dogs that don't need them, and by saying he does, it's obvious to me that you've never seen Brad in action - watching a video clip on youtube or a tv show for half an hour does not even come close to experiencing the truth behind his methods or teachings. Simple as that. I would be much more inclined to listen to those of you who *have* met Brad, been to one of his classes, discussed his reasoning to his face, asked your questions; than those of you who are making judgement calls and assumptions based on 'what tv shows you'.

As far as what you're saying about him lifting the leash and pulling it to the dogs rear - that's completley wrong and is not the way he uses that particular excercise to make the dog sit. Like I said previously, tv is not the right way to assess his training tools.

As far as the tree excercise goes, like I said previously, it's a real life everyday tool to show the dog that they are to focus on their owner. It absolutley in no way harms the animal, I run poles and tree's with all of my dogs and my clients dogs, and at the end of the exercise we have satisfied - happy - content dogs; their minds are being worked, they learn how to respond quickly, and it's extremley fun for both dog and owner. Just like when we take the dogs over benches, through thickly wooded areas, downtown around street lamps, etc. There are *many* ways to teach a dog to watch where you are going. This is one of them, which does not harm the dog in ANY WAY. That is all.

His goals are and always have been to teach the dog to be in real life situations, with a lot of distractions, and yet to watch the owner. Which is why, if a dog he trained was surrendered, the family would essentially have a wonderfully well-rounded dog that looked to it's new owner for direction.

In regards to his pinning exercise (another word for that is 'lie down') what exactly did you find disturbing about that? I'm curious.

I highly encourage YOU now, to be more active in the dog-training world. Watching a show and actually talking to a trainer; are two different things. If I had never had experience with clicker training, I absolutley would not comment on it. Just a few thoughts.

Thankyou for yours.