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Old November 16th, 2011, 01:06 AM
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erykah1310 erykah1310 is offline
Blue eyed funny farm
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Canada
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Just want to clarify too since this is the internet I am honestly doing this for the sake of defending a method i see no problem using and am in no way picking at this for any personal reason nor do I disagree with what you are saying tenderfoot, I respect what you are saying and your concerns with a collar and it seems i am picking on just you but I sort of am because we're the only 2 talking right now in this thread. Hopefully you don't see this as attacks on your training style, because it isn't in any way.

Originally Posted by tenderfoot View Post
If you need an e-collar to train your dog, my question is where do you go when the low level vibration doesn't work? Crank it up to the next level until it does work? Not our cup of tea.
If done properly there is no need to go to crank anything up. The collar vibrating is my version of the leash giving a cue. Since proper recall with an e collar is started on lead with clear communication and slowly tools are removed from the equation when the dog understand the command fully I do not see the difference one bit between a properly used collar to a long line other than having the ability to cue from far.
People make an e collar ( or a vibrating collar with no ability to even shock) be seen in too much of a bad light.
They are NOT midevil torture devices if used properly.
It is like that horse trainers quote ( I can't think of who) that I love so much "Frustration begins where knowledge ends" If someone who is training their dog doesn't know what else to try to get the result they are looking for with what ever method they are using they will just increase the severity of what ever they are doing out of frustration. Be it a harsh choker correction inflicting un necissary trauma to the trachea or an unnecissary shock from a collar. However both in my eyes are equally bad, this is why people should be seeking out professional help BEFORE their knowledge ends.

With my dogs in the environments they are in and being that I am not ever with just one of them at a time a recall and a down are 2 commands I will not mess around with. The communication for both of those commands is crystal clear and the same for all 6 of them. If we come across a bear on our travels I am not willing to risk them not coming 100% of the time when called regardless of distraction or excitement level of the rest of the dogs.

If I am not succeeding in a relationship it is my responsibility to be a better communicator. I need to be more interesting to be with, and it is up to me to communicate more clearly so that my partner understands me.
Exactly! Same principle. Vibration, does not stop until you look towards me ( first few times) as soon as you do, its party time. If the dog stands there stareing at me I will do anything to get a step towards me even use a cue from a leash. If the dog turns and looks away the uncomfortable vibration returns. It isn't clear to them at first which is why you don't set them up to fail, it starts off small until they understand the concept. I don't know, I have never had to think " Oh I should give a shock because this isn't working" but then again, I didn't just go to the store and pick up a collar and think.. this should fix all my problems. I took time to learn about the tool that I was going to use and how to use it properly.

When we get results with just the look of an eye or a change in tone, I feel good about that. If someone needs a pocket full of treats to be successful then we would hope to be able to help them move beyond their dependence on food to get results from their dog. We teach them to use just their touch, tone and energy to get results with as little energy as possible and then we have accomplished something for the betterment of their dog, their understanding of dogs and their relationship.
Absolutely! But all training is the conditioning for the behaviour we are after is it not? There are more than one way to get the exact same result and some work better in different situations than others, there are many variables to the equation.
As it is said in the horse world, "show it, practice it then refine it". A dressage horse doesn't start out knowing to move off a flex of a calf muscle or stop squeeze of the bum in a saddle, it has been refined to that level. Many may have been started with the usual heel for a cue while others respond more to a tap from a properly used spur ( not the spurs from western movies either) which tool you decide to use knowledgably will depend on each person and horse/dog.
Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyways. ~John Wayne
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