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Old January 5th, 2011, 10:10 PM
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mhikl mhikl is offline
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Location: Calgary, Canada
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Concerns over essential proteins

I just re-read the starting post and I don’t think I am too far off the point, though I do plead guilty to jabbering so I’ll try to be more precise.

My point: there are proteins and there are proteins:

There are two kinds of protein conglomerations being compared, I believe. (I made the conglomeration thingi up. I’m not a biologist and don’t know the proper term outside of defining what they are):

1. Complete Protein. Meat protein is a complete protein. Meat includes all eight essential proteins which are necessary if to be used as proteins to humans. (Again don’t know about dogs and cats.)

2. Incomplete Protein. Beans, Legumes and Vegetable lack one or more of the essential proteins. An incomplete protein lacks the amino acid(s) that allow it to function as a protein in the human body. The unavailable proteins would add to the carbohydrate count.

As mentioned in one of your previous posts there are 8 essential amino acids that the human body cannot make from other foods so they must be got from ingestion. (Dunno about dogs and cats.) If even one of the essentials is missing then all the other protein bits act as carbs and are burnt as energy only and can’t be used for protein-only functions such as building cells.

So if your quest is to prove successful and valuable to your goal, then I would suspect that you want the protein count of essential proteins. and not the unessential ones which the human (again don’t know about dogs and cats- they may be able to make more or less than humans) is able to manufacture.

Here is a list of Protein from chickpeas, soybeans and beef. All foods are given in protein grams per 100 grams raw weight.

Soyabean: 36.49g protein per 100 grams weight. (Soybeans are considered by many agencies to be a source of complete protein: see below) But how much “complete protein” is particular to the soya is the question.

Chickpeas (garbanzo beans, bengal gram), mature seeds, raw 19.30g protein per 100 grams.
Chickpeas are incomplete; therefore, their protein would go to waste if not combined with something that fulfils the missing proteins.

Examples of complete proteins from beef sources.

• Beef, variety meats and by-products, brain, raw 10.86g protein per 100 grams (don’t think I would ever feed a dog brains- mad cow disease and all)
• Beef, variety meats and by-products, heart, raw 17.72g protein per 100 grams
• Beef, variety meats and by-products, liver, raw 20.36g protein per 100 grams (my dog use to have the runs when I gave her liver or heart or raw hamburger and the stuff was still blood red so haven't chanced any of this yet)
• Beef, round, outside round, bottom round, steak, separable lean and fat, trimmed to 0" fat, choice, raw 21.24g protein per 100 grams
• Beef, carcass, separable lean and fat, select, raw 17.48g protein per 100 grams
• Beef, ground, 95% lean meat / 5% fat, raw 21.41g protein per 100 grams

From Wikipedia: Soybeans
Together, oil and protein content account for about 60% of dry soybeans by weight; protein at 40% and oil at 20%. The remainder consists of 35% carbohydrate and about 5% ash. Soybean cultivars comprise approximately 8% seed coat or hull, 90% cotyledons and 2% hypocotyl axis or germ.

Soybeans are considered by many agencies to be a source of complete protein. A complete protein is one that contains significant amounts of all the essential amino acids that must be provided to the human body because of the body's inability to synthesize them. For this reason, soy is a good source of protein, amongst many others, for vegetarians and vegans or for people who want to reduce the amount of meat they eat.

How much complete protein is in dry kibble is anyone’s guess. I wouldn’t rely upon the manufacturers numbers as excluding incomplete protein from their count.

Regarding the problem with the dog pooping on the carpet, I wonder if the problem is introduction. I’m only in the 3rd day with my dog on a full BARF diet. Here tummy growled whilst sitting by me but she isn’t passing gas (her usual on a kibble diet).

At night she expects a small treat. I usually give her 3 kibbles and 3 vitamins which she quickly snarfs down. This morning, beginning of 3rd BARF day, I found she had vomited up the night treat and the kibbles where un chewed and undigested. She’s never done this before. So tonight it will be a few pieces of apple and we’ll see how that goes.

I also noticed on day two and three (today) that she pees a lot more often and greater amounts. I let her out at least 8 times yesterday and I am not sure about today because we were out and about shopping. Also, usually when she urinates theres a definite hole, about the side of a looney, in the snow. Now there is a hole but also a huge wet spot the size of a large serving plate and it takes her longer at the task which I think is because she’s emitting more fluid.

I know that when I am on Atkins and limiting my carbs, I do pass more water and more often. Possibly the looser stool is due to this factor and the dog’s system is adjusting. Sadie seemed to have to poop every time I let her out to pee the first few days but today seems more regular.

I’m sticking with the BARF diet but have back on the bones a bit. Tomorrow she will get some salmon with her chicken neck and only one bone in the afternoon.

The point on too much protein has me a little confused. There are three main foods: protein, carbohydrates (sugars) and fat. Cutting back on one means increasing one or both of the others. If you are concerned that the dog is getting too much protein, wouldn’t an alternative be to cut back on the amount of food altogether?

This is a prob I have with any new diet for my dog. How much is enough, not enough or too much. But today has been better with fewer bones and she could gladly suffer a few lost pounds.

Namaste,
mhikl

Last edited by mhikl; January 5th, 2011 at 10:14 PM. Reason: wording changed re: liver, heart etc
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