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Old June 14th, 2010, 01:23 PM
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dogmelissa dogmelissa is offline
Pet Guardian
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 565
Originally Posted by growler View Post
Do you have a copy of the BUN, creatinine, phosphorus, calcuim, & USG plus anything else out of normal range from her test results?

Sierra will need to have her urine cultured again a few days prior to finishing the antibiotics and again 2 weeks after finishing. UTI can be hard to erradicate especially in CRF kitties. It may take a longer course of treatment than the standard 2 weeks, sometimes between 6-8 weeks.

A ultrasound is pretty much the only way to definately rule out a kidney infection, and if there is already renal failure noted I would recommend having one done. The UTI can travel fairly quickly up from the bladder into the kidneys & from there it is much harder to erradicate.

An ultrasound will also give your vet a clear "map" of the kidneys size & condition that will be good to refer to with any subsequent ultrasounds.
I don't have a copy of her numbers, but I could ask for them today as we are going back to the vet. The vet called to check on her and I asked her if I need to get a repeat urinalysis done or something and she referred to herself as 'bad vet!' and then told me that she will do a 2nd injection of the antibiotics 2 weeks from the first and then a repeat culture one week after that. She didn't mention an ultrasound; I'm not going to ask because I don't want to offer them any more reasons to take my money but if there's still signs of infection next week then I'll consider it.

Originally Posted by growler View Post
Kidney failure is either acute or chronic.
- Acute renal failure (ARF) happens suddenly, severely with the cat crashing in need of several days of IV hospitalization & is most often due to antifreeze poisoning etc. Usually it is seen in young pets & if treated early & aggressively the pet may make a near-complete recovery with a higher incident of kidney related issues later in life.
- Chronic renal failure (CRF) is a gradual progressive deterioration of the kidneys that is terminal & happens with about 10% of cats over the age of 10. Most cats develop CRF as a result of aging, though some young cats may have a genetic predisposition or as a result of severe infection.

If the reason for the kidney failure is age it's chronic.
Thank you for that explanation that makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure if the *reason* for the failure is age, but it doesn't really matter the cause, we're definitely looking at CRF.

Originally Posted by growler View Post
I'm more concerned with the phosphorus content of the food, please post the value when they respond.

Protein should be of high quality actual muscle meat (chicken, turkey etc not chicken by product etc) so Horizon is good in that aspect & the protein level looks alright but the % phos still needs to be considered

It is not recommended to restrict protein below 400 kcal
I haven't heard from them, they have a local (to me) phone number so I'm going to try to find time to call this week.

Originally Posted by growler View Post
If 1.2% is as fed phos it works out to 1.3% dry matter that is too high.

100-moisture = dry matter; phos/dry matter * 100 = dry matter phosphorus

Go! Natural Trout Dry:
100-10 moisture (per website) = 90 dry matter; 1.2phos (per your bag)/90 = 0.013*100 = 1.33% dry matter phosphorus - too high
At this point I'm not going to stress about 0.3% too much of anything. If we were looking at 1% or 5% then yeah that's a concern but right now I'm just concentrating on getting her to eat, and she's really not that interested in doing too much of that regardless of what I put in front of her.

Originally Posted by growler View Post
You may get to a point that you need to change foods to find one w/less phos than fish based, it is better to try to switch her to a non-fish food now rather than when she isn't feeling well. But yes she needs to eat in good healthy quantity, at some point it may come down to feeding whatever she will eat regardless of phos/protein level, just so she does.

Phosphorus level is critical, protein less so as long as it is not restricted too low and it is quality protein.

Cat with protein levels restricted too far may start losing muscle mass & become weak, plus alot of the low protein foods aren't flavourful enough to be appetizing to many cats. If you offer a renal diet low in protein & phosphorus but the cat refuses to eat it - it does no good to the cat that won't eat it.
We're already dealing with her not feeling well plus having lost muscle mass. She's incredibly thin, like to the point where I can feel every vertebra in her spine and she can barely jump up on the couch on her own; she used to run laps through the house and bounce all the way to the top of the cat tree (7' above the floor). She's not feeling well, and incredibly skinny. Now is not the time to be messing with her food, IMO. The good news is that I bought a few varieties of canned food and she was fairly interested in the Wellness Chicken & Salmon variety - she ate more of that than any of the others I've offered, but still hardly any. She weighed 2.3kg when she got her antibiotic and the most food she's eaten in a day was less than half a can and a few kibbles. Smart girl though has fully refused to even consider any of the 'prescription' vet foods.

Originally Posted by growler View Post
If you are already giving her canned in her supper, why not increase the canned amount add some extra water & remove the dry from that meal? That way she is atleast getting 1 meal of just canned.

The problem with adding water or canned to dry is it needs to be consumed in a short amount of time, not snacked upon for more than 20-30 mins as scm mentions.
Again, right now the concern is just getting her to eat. Up until she got really sick, her 'supper' was really just a snack and did have more canned & water than kibble anyways. And as I mentioned in response to scm, she would eat it all within a few minutes so the time factor wasn't an issue. Now just getting her to eat anything is a small miracle.

And on that note, since she refused her breakfast this morning, I'm going to go offer it to her again. She goes to the vet for a re-injection of antibiotics at 3:20pm today and I think she's also going to come home with instructions for me to give her sub-Q fluids which I'm not excited about. I know how to do it because I worked at the local Humane Society for 3 years, but I've never done it to a cat in my care and I'm not looking forward to it - but I know it's probably necessary.

Thanks for everything so far.
Guardian of Taz (10) & one-eyed wonder Cube (11).
Forever in my heart: Patches Gizmo (1987 - 2008), Sierra (1999 - 2010), Rusty (1999 - 2012), Aubrie (1999-2014)

"If you can't afford the vet, you can't afford the pet."
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