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Old May 13th, 2012, 10:54 AM
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Rgeurts Rgeurts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millitntanimist View Post
That's your perogative. I think you can (and must) teach respect by giving respect, not by applying (positive) punishment. A child that behaves well because they are afraid of being punished is not a "better" child (and as i said, it is also statistically the worst way to change behavior). In fact, punishment is a poor predictor of good behavior, but an excellent predictor of trust level. It doesn't stop bad decisions, it simply makes it more likely that the child will hide their behavior from their family. A child that learns the way to get respect is to be respectful can be trusted to make good decisions without parental supervision.

We all have our own opinions and beliefs. Statistics are a load of crap. Studies are biased and often inaccurate. And I could not disagree more. I got spankings, and if I yelled at my mom, or called her names, I'd get a smack in the mouth. I'm not a criminal. I'm not disrespectful, and I never distrusted my parents and was never afraid of them. In fact, I have SO much respect for them both. I lost my mom only a few years ago, but she was my best friend until the day she passed, and I still miss her every day. I didn't pull the legs off frogs, or play frog baseball. I didn't smash the neighbors garden lights or stomp on their luminaries. I didn't vandalize or break into their cars. But the kids around... that's what they do. They don't get spankings, they get "time-outs". So you can preach that showing them respect instead of punishment is the way to go until your blue in the face, but it holds no water for me at all. I think GF is absolutely right, and that IS the problem with kids now. As far as making good decisions without parental supervision, please tell that to the parents who thought as you do and lost their baby to some pervert on the internet who was able to "lure" them away because the parents DID trust them to make the right decisions. It's SO easy to gain a childs trust and has nothing to do with teaching them respect and how to make a good decision. Kids are kids and will make bad decisions. They need the parents to guide them, and yes, to check up on them and make sure they aren't being misled. There are no guarantees on how your children will turn out. But if you allow them too much freedom and no consequence for bad behavior, except an occasional "time-out", you are asking for trouble.


A child that relies on punishment will always need someone looking over their shoulder, and will likely do everything in their power to avoid that punishment through lies and deception. It's pretty easy for a kid to figure out they're only punished when they're caught.

Again, I disagree. And I'm speaking from personal experience. I grew up in a time where spankings were acceptable, and I'm no worse for wear. In fact, my sister and I are both respectful and kind hearted. I attribute that strictly to our parents. I'm not saying to beat your children, but you can't just "talk" to them or give them a time-out and expect them to be well behaved. I have a few really good friends who don't believe in "postive" punishment, just as you. And unfortunately, we don't spend much time together because I just can't stand to be around their kids. One of them sprayed their German Shepard in the face with a household cleaner, burnt his eyes and he's now blind at 3 yrs old. All they said was "it's not her fault, she doesn't know any better". She was 5... I knew better at that age. It didn't happen because she didn't know any better... it happened because she's a brat and knows there is no consequence for her actions except maybe a few minutes in the corner.

If we are talking about physical punishment, there is a direct correlation between physically disciplining a child and that child's likelihood of jeuvenile delinquency, crime, and domestic abuse. Of a group of violent offenders polled at San Quentin prison, 100% were physically punished as children.
I'm sure that the physical punishment wasn't the only common factor there. Were they just punished or beaten? Were the parents drug dealers/addicts? Were the parents alcoholics? Physical abuse is prevalent in those demographic groups, which is highly likely to turn out a few bad eggs. So I'm sure that statistic is based on physical abuse, not physical punishment, and there is a HUGE difference, which leads me back to my original statement regarding statistics being biased and inaccurate, to the point of misleading. Ok, I'm done! This is an interesting conversation, but WAY off topic. If you want to continue it, make a new thread and I'll be happy to join in!

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