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-   -   Can a vet refuse to treat a dog without a rabies shot? (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=83847)

lindapalm April 21st, 2013 09:55 PM

Can a vet refuse to treat a dog without a rabies shot?
 
Our dog is fourteen and due for a shot next month. Its been three years since her last one. She doesn't get any other shots because I feel shes too old, but I am undecided what to do about the rabies shot. If I don't get her one, can a vet refuse to treat her if she gets sick, and if she bites someone without an up to date shot, what will they do to her? I really don't want to take the chance an give her one, but I also don't want to make things a lot worst if I don't.

pattymac April 21st, 2013 10:23 PM

hmm that's a good one. I would guess a bit depends on where you live. Some places, I think, will take a titre test in place of the shot. Maybe you could check if your vet will do a titre test for rabies.

So far I've been lucky with my critters, vets and vaccinations. The dog I get done when she's due as she's out in public. My cats haven't been vaccinated since they were young. but then they are strictly indoor. I vaccinated my first cats every time they said they needed to be, I think both went alot earlier than they would have had I known then what I know now!!

Longblades April 22nd, 2013 06:31 AM

Gosh, I think this exact situation came up recently and was posted here. Sorry I don't remember the outcome but it's a good point and maybe titres would help. When I found a Golden Retriever who was badly in need of grooming no one would groom her because of the vaccination worry.

marko April 22nd, 2013 07:26 AM

I am not a vet - but I would wager that a vet does have the right not to treat an animal for this. I'd wager they can refuse to treat an animal for any reason. (that doesn't trample human rights)

And in my opinion they should have that right....They studied the diseases and know the risks at different levels.

Obviously any vet can also be a bad vet and/or a bad person - but that's not what we are talking about here.

If the rabies incidence in your area is low a vet will likely take that into consideration.

Personally - I do not think I would give my 14 yr old dog a rabies shot if I thought it would stress the dog out/make the dog ill - UNLESS my vet suggested that in my case (knowing my dog) that this is an overly risky decision.

Good Luck!

Barkingdog April 22nd, 2013 07:28 AM

I can see of no reasons why a vet can't refuse to treat a dog that is not up to date on it rabies shot. Some rabies shots are good for 3 years, does your dog have tag on it collar with the expiration date of her last shot? Why should a vet risk exposing other people dogs to a dog that may have rabies?

sugarcatmom April 22nd, 2013 07:38 AM

A vet can indeed refuse to treat a dog that they feel hasn't been vaccinated sufficiently. I personally would find another vet in that case. (But as mentioned, do ask about whether they would accept titre testing instead, *if you otherwise really like the vet*. For me, I'd consider it a waste of money in a 14 yr old dog that has been vaccinated over the years.)

[url]http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/lifelong-immunity-vets/[/url]
[url]http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/[/url]

Jull April 22nd, 2013 12:00 PM

yes I think they can, but I am sure you can also find one that will be ok with it, specially considering the dogs age... I personally have decided to not vaccinate my pups as often as it is suggested by a vet (my dog has had reactions to the vaccines) and will be using Nosodes instead, I have also switched to a holistic vet which makes things easier as I know she wont refuse to see him if he is not "up to date" with shots.

lindapalm April 22nd, 2013 10:29 PM

I'm really torn on what to do. Shes slowing down a lot but is still in pretty good condition. If I decide to get her a shot and something happened I'd never forgive myself, but if I don't and she gets really sick and no one will treat her that would be horrible, too Her three year shot expires in June, shes always been up to date on the rabies shots, not the other ones. I know of two vets in my area that would insist on a shot, maybe I'll call some that are farther out and see what their opinion is.

Winston April 23rd, 2013 09:47 AM

I would find a vet that doesn't require this at such an age. I know with my cats that was an issue as they aged I didn't want to vaccinate.
However if you live in Ontario Rabies is mandatory. I would have thought most vets would show some compassion with a dog at that age?

lindapalm April 23rd, 2013 08:31 PM

I live in New York, and its a law here that dogs have one, so I doubt I'll find a vet to agree, but I'm going to make some calls to some outside our area, and if I find one that agrees I would have no problem switching. I'm betting I don't find one.

Barkingdog April 23rd, 2013 09:53 PM

Maybe a holistic veterinarian will treat dogs that do not have rabies shots, have tried calling one and see what they say?

MaxaLisa April 24th, 2013 01:29 AM

[QUOTE=Barkingdog;1056821]Maybe a holistic veterinarian will treat dogs that do not have rabies shots, have tried calling one and see what they say?[/QUOTE]
Yes, this.

I'm ure if your dog has been vaccinated until now, the rabies I till protective. It is a matter of the law.

My old girl passed away at 13 1/2 years old. Due to illness, her last rabie vax was at 2 years old. She received a letter from her vet and received an exemption from Animal Control when I licensed her. Her other vet told me all sorts of horror stories about what would happen if he bit someone, and I learned that in our county they were all false. The only waay you will know is if you call animal control. Also relevant is how likely is the dog to bite (my girl was not a risk at all).

lindapalm April 24th, 2013 08:15 PM

I called three vets today, and they all said rabies shots are necessary, so that makes five vets that all agree. I really don't blame them, they don't want to get in trouble over one persons dog. I was surprised, though, that one actually told me that the other dog shots were not necessary at her age, that is the first time one admitted it. I think I'm going to risk it and not have her vaccinated.

Longblades April 24th, 2013 08:34 PM

[QUOTE=lindapalm;1056852]I called three vets today, and they all said rabies shots are necessary, so that makes five vets that all agree. I really don't blame them, they don't want to get in trouble over one persons dog. I was surprised, though, that one actually told me that the other dog shots were not necessary at her age, that is the first time one admitted it. I think I'm going to risk it and not have her vaccinated.[/QUOTE]Is there some reason you don't want to do titres? More than one of us has suggested them and you haven't commented on titres.

MaxaLisa April 24th, 2013 10:44 PM

Very few places will accept titers for rabies. I have only heard of one county in the US accepting these. The rabies comnedium (sp?) Specifically states that rabies titers can't be used.

That said, many vets will write a letter of exemption (if allowed in your county) if the titers show a protected level. In the US, Kansas state is the only one that rins them, though I send my bloodwork to Jean Dodds lab. And she send it out.

Longblades April 25th, 2013 06:24 AM

[QUOTE=MaxaLisa;1056854]Very few places will accept titers for rabies. I have only heard of one county in the US accepting these. The rabies comnedium (sp?) Specifically states that rabies titers can't be used.

That said, many vets will write a letter of exemption (if allowed in your county) if the titers show a protected level. In the US, Kansas state is the only one that rins them, though I send my bloodwork to Jean Dodds lab. And she send it out.[/QUOTE]Good point, it is a problem, yes. There's the question of whether they will be accepted at all and if they are accepted then what level is being looked for. However this is an evolving area and the OP might want to look at it. More and more places are accepting them, especially if the animal's Vet does write the number down on a letter of exemption.

lindapalm April 25th, 2013 09:28 AM

I called two places and they both said the titre test wouldn't hold up as proof, one said rabies shots in older dogs is not a problem, and if it was his dog he would give her the shot. This is a very young vet, so I guess their attitudes still haven't changed.

Sweetis mom April 25th, 2013 01:03 PM

shots
 
[QUOTE=lindapalm;1056723]Our dog is fourteen and due for a shot next month. Its been three years since her last one. She doesn't get any other shots because I feel shes too old, but I am undecided what to do about the rabies shot. If I don't get her one, can a vet refuse to treat her if she gets sick, and if she bites someone without an up to date shot, what will they do to her? I really don't want to take the chance an give her one, but I also don't want to make things a lot worst if I don't.[/QUOTE]

check with your animal control,lawyer.Each state is different! My dog had all his shots.BUT I will not give them to him again.I spoke with a holistic vet and when he explained what is in the shots and heartworm meds , they are poison in low doses. It has been a 100 years sense a reported case of rabies. in dogs.I will have his blood tested every 6 months to keep up on his health. Hoped that helped

lindapalm April 26th, 2013 12:41 PM

I was still doing the heartworm, I probably should quit that, too.

Jull April 26th, 2013 12:49 PM

Last night I stumbled upon this podcast, of a Dr who was terminated from his job for choosing not to over-vaccinate pets

[url]http://youtu.be/Qa3N45Epbfk[/url]

Barkingdog April 26th, 2013 02:15 PM

[QUOTE=Sweetis mom;1056870]check with your animal control,lawyer.Each state is different! My dog had all his shots.BUT I will not give them to him again.I spoke with a holistic vet and when he explained what is in the shots and heartworm meds , they are poison in low doses. It has been a 100 years sense a reported case of rabies. in dogs.I will have his blood tested every 6 months to keep up on his health. Hoped that helped[/QUOTE]

With all of the coyote sightings there been in my back by myself and other people my dog is getting his rabies shots. A coyote came right up to my dog with me standing right beside him and the coyote sniffed my dog's butt!

Longblades April 26th, 2013 03:21 PM

[QUOTE=lindapalm;1056890]I was still doing the heartworm, I probably should quit that, too.[/QUOTE]Why?

Personally I am doing only rabies vaccinations. No more DH2PP and I don't do lepto or lymes either but incident reports for those are burgeoning, plus the lepto in particular, in my readings, can have more serious possible side effects than it's worth in protection.

But I am doing heartworm, not the vaccination, the tablets. Only June to November as we don't have mosquitoes in our cold winters. As far as I can tell from reading the side effects of this one are not so bad, certainly less than the effects of having to be treated for heartworm.

So really, I am curious, what makes you think you will quit heartworm preventative? You might have found out something I haven't yet. :)

Jim Hall April 26th, 2013 10:27 PM

So I live in new jersey and it is the law also I would never ask my vet to break the law and would be leery of any vet who did . This even goew for my cats thqat dont even go out side at all

BTW what is the incidence of reactions to a rabies vac?

lindapalm April 27th, 2013 12:13 AM

Longblades, I commented about the heartworm because Sweetis mom said her vet considers them poison in low doses. I probably will still do the heartworm because our dog does lay outside on the grass when we are out with her, and the chance of getting bit by a mosquito is pretty good. I give her the chewable tablets, too. Shes tolerated them good so far.

hazelrunpack April 27th, 2013 10:15 AM

Jim, we've had three of the eight dogs swell up and vomit in response to a rabies shot and a black lab years ago that did the same thing. So in dogs, at least, reactions are not that uncommon. It helps if you do the rabies separately instead of with the distemper--we always wait at least a week between the two, even though it means another 100 mile round trip to get the second vaccination. Here we only by law have to vaccinate for rabies every three years. We're seriously considering letting it lapse, though, in the dogs that are older than 10. We won't do the distemper shots after that age, either.

Jull April 27th, 2013 11:58 AM

[QUOTE=hazelrunpack;1056943]Jim, we've had three of the eight dogs swell up and vomit in response to a rabies shot and a black lab years ago that did the same thing. So in dogs, at least, reactions are not that uncommon. It helps if you do the rabies separately instead of with the distemper--we always wait at least a week between the two, even though it means another 100 mile round trip to get the second vaccination. Here we only by law have to vaccinate for rabies every three years. We're seriously considering letting it lapse, though, in the dogs that are older than 10. We won't do the distemper shots after that age, either.[/QUOTE]

I saw an interview with doctor schultz, on vaccinations being that he is a leader in the field, and he said that he only gave his dogs the first round of puppy shots and the one year boosters, but after that only rabies as per law every three years... then he said that was only because of the law otherwise he Wouldn't give any after the first year...

Im lucky that the clinic I now go to they do an assesment on your pet before just throwing shots at him, and they also do titter testing. Vets get titter testing before re-vaccinating themselves , why wouldnt our furrykids?...

Bestia has had reaction to the vaccine both times he got it, and it was very scary.

Longblades April 27th, 2013 12:13 PM

[QUOTE=Jim Hall;1056930]So I live in new jersey and it is the law also I would never ask my vet to break the law and would be leery of any vet who did . This even goew for my cats thqat dont even go out side at all

BTW what is the incidence of reactions to a rabies vac?[/QUOTE]It's much higher in cats than in dogs. Cats are sensitive to the adjuvant used in the 3 year rabies and many Vets will only give the one year to cats. The adjuvant is responsible for cancer at the injection site. I've read some small breed dogs are also thought to be susceptible. And, contrary to the size caution in dogs, my neighour's big Newfy is now recovering from surgery to remove vaccine induced sarcoma at her rabies injection site. It's not absolutely, positively for certain adjuvant in the rabies caused it but it's so awfully co-incidental her Vet believes it is. It's not a spot where other cancers are common.

My Vet recommends we no longer vaccinate the three, now down to two, oldest cats and they are 15, 17.5 and 20. Not rabies, not anything. I have had only cases of extreme lethargy in two of my cats over many years. I separated the rabies from their other shots by a couple of weeks. That was back when I still vaccinated for everything every year as told to by my VEt.

I have to say, simply doing what I was told to by someone supposedly looking out for my animals's best interest and up to date in their knowledge was sure a lot easier than having to research it and make up my own mind what was best for me and mine.

MaxaLisa April 27th, 2013 03:11 PM

It's very difficult to quantify vaccine reactions, as most vets don't believe in those kinds of vaccine reactions.

As an example, my girl had a terrible reaction to her lyme vaccine, and it changed her completely. Over the next couple years, she saw a variety of vets, I changed a couple of time, there were a total of 13. Only two of those believed that the vaccine might be implicated, and one of them finally agreed to run the proper bloodwork (through cornell). So, after years of this battle, months of working and consulting through the cornell serology lab director, she was diagnosed with an immune complex disorder caused by her myme vaccine. That literally saved her, having a diagnosis, for the rest of her life, that "cornell said so" was golden. But it took intil the 13th vet to find one that would run the initial blood test, and then my regular vet being very cooperative and investigative after that. How many pet owners know to do this, or are able? I might have been able to shorten that vet list, but I didn't know what I know now. I even had a pecial consult at our local university, and they completely dismissed it.

This same dog, when she later had her raabies vax, it caused her to limp, and he did o for the rest of her life. That's a vaccine reaction, however most vets wouldn't acknowledge it, much less it get tallied somewhere.

MaxaLisa April 27th, 2013 03:14 PM

The heartworm *shot*, yes, I definitely would find a different way to protect your dog.

lindapalm April 30th, 2013 09:12 PM

I went ahead and got our dog her three year rabies shot today, so far so good. Hopefully tomorrow will be okay, too. She is due for flea meds and heartworm pills, would it be safer if I wait a couple of weeks before I give them to her, or doesn't it matter?


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