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-   -   How long for Covenia - baytril to start working? (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=82464)

marko October 11th, 2012 03:16 PM

How long for Covenia - baytril to start working?
 
Hi members!

Seems little Baci (my 3 year old sphynx cat) got sick real fast this week.
He started spontaneous sneezing which 24 hours later also included coughing and sounded bad and 'phlegmy'. So we booked a vet appointment and yesterday the vet gave him covenia at about 11 AM yesterday.

Later on that day after the radiologist looked at the x-ray she thought it looked like an early pneumonia so she also prescribed baytril for the next 2 weeks at 50 mg/each night. last night he had his first dose of that. He slept fairly poorly last night as he was all 'blocked up' but slightly better than the previous night.

Seems to me that today the sneezing has mostly gone away, but he still sounds very horse and still phlegmy whenever he moves around.

Just wanted to know what members' experiences are with when these meds should really kick in?

many thx in advance :grouphug:

growler~GateKeeper October 11th, 2012 04:17 PM

No experience w either but wanted to send some healing :goodvibes: to Baci :grouphug:

hazelrunpack October 11th, 2012 04:19 PM

In our experience with the dogs, Baytril is pretty fast-acting, but it might take a couple of days. We've never had it prescribed for a respiratory infection though--mostly it's been for UTIs.

Hope Baci is better soon, poor dear! :goodvibes:

sugarcatmom October 11th, 2012 04:49 PM

[QUOTE=marko;1047591]So we booked a vet appointment and yesterday the vet gave him covenia at about 11 AM yesterday.[/quote]

I've only had one Convenia experience and it seemed to start working within a couple days (was for an oral infection that my very difficult-to-pill senior citizen kitty had). My vet mentioned that the peak period for potential side effects to occur (which, like many other antibiotics, tend to be gastrointestinal - although there are much more serious ones to watch out for even if they're supposedly rare: [url]http://catinfo.org/?link=convenia[/url]), is about the 3 day mark.

[QUOTE=marko;1047591] she also prescribed baytril for the next 2 weeks at 50 mg/each night. [/quote]

How much does Baci weigh? My understanding is that the max dose for cats should be 5mg/kg per day. Higher than that and you risk retinal damage.
[url]http://www.tufts.edu/vet/vet_common/pdf/petinfo/dvm/case_march2003.pdf[/url]
[url]http://www.showcatsonline.com/x/baytril_warning.shtml[/url]


[QUOTE=marko;1047591]Seems to me that today the sneezing has mostly gone away, but he still sounds very horse and still phlegmy whenever he moves around.[/quote]

Might want to consider adding about 250-500mg twice a day of Lysine powder to Baci's diet while he has symptoms. [url]http://www.holisticat.com/uri.html[/url] 10 minutes of steam therapy a few times a day should also help loosen things up (hang out with him in the bathroom while you run a hot shower).

And absolutely start giving him probiotics! That amount of antibiotics in his system will decimate the good bacteria in his digestive tract and it could get ugly.

Good luck! Sick kitties are not fun. :sick:

marko October 11th, 2012 05:14 PM

thanks so much for the responses!

SCM baci is about 7kilos but I erred on the 50mg. The tablets are split in 2 so each one is 25mg - so 5mg x7 does put him under the safe dose, but thanks SO much for catching this - you good!

Thing with baci is....he has food allergies so his diet is very resticted. He changed to a prescription ( deer and green pea ) diet about 8 months ago and it has worked wonders.

Thanks for the Lysine advice and steam advice.

In terms of probiotics and potential allergies - any recommendations?

mant thx :goodvibes:

sugarcatmom October 11th, 2012 11:30 PM

[QUOTE=marko;1047615]The tablets are split in 2 so each one is 25mg - so 5mg x7 does put him under the safe dose, [/quote]

:thumbs up

[QUOTE=marko;1047615]
In terms of probiotics and potential allergies - any recommendations?
[/QUOTE]

Probiotics might actually help with the allergies too. I'm a fan of [URL="http://naturalfactors.com/caen/products/detail/4375/ultimate-multi-probiotic"]Natural Factors Ultimate Multi[/URL]and gave them to Aztec after his Convenia shot. If anyone is going to get diarrhea from antibiotics, it'll be him, but he's been having perfectly normal poopage. What I like about the Ultimate Multi is that it's high potency (billions of CFUs) and has multiple strains of organisms, to provide broad coverage. Plus you get good bang for your buck compared to many other brands out there. You only need a small pinch mixed into Baci's food, say about 1/4 of a capsule 2 or 3 times a day (although I've gone much higher without any issues). Do heed this warning as well, otherwise the probiotics will get wiped out by the antibiotics:
[QUOTE][B]Contraindications[/B]
If taking antibiotics, take probiotics two hours before or two hours after the antibiotics are taken. Continue to use probiotics long after the antibiotics are finished.[/QUOTE]

marko October 12th, 2012 07:16 AM

thanks for the extra info SCM :highfive:

marko October 13th, 2012 08:50 AM

SCM - Thanks again for the probiotic advice, I found it within a 10 minute bikeride from where I live. The large bottle was on special at 30 bucks. Seems like it will last forever and I may try some as well.

question though - Can you clarify something for me with in a sentence or two or with a link if it's too much typing?
You wrote [QUOTE]Probiotics might actually help with the allergies too.[/QUOTE] why is that?

also if you have a general link on what probiotics do (I know you keep good links) I'd love to know more.

Nutrition knowledge in general is something I need futher education on.

many thx again!

pbpatti October 13th, 2012 11:00 AM

How is Baci doing? Pretty scary having a sick family member. Sending lots of:goodvibes::grouphug: for a quick recovery. :cloud9:

sugarcatmom October 13th, 2012 05:21 PM

[QUOTE=marko;1047696]why is that?[/quote]

Sounds like research on how probiotics affect the immune system is fairly new and there are more questions than answers, but these links have a bit of info:
[url]http://jn.nutrition.org/content/137/3/794S.long[/url]

[QUOTE][B]Mechanisms of antiallergic probiotic action[/B]

The precise mechanisms behind the favorable effects of probiotics on allergy are not entirely known. Several mechanisms have been observed in vitro and in animal studies (Fig. 2). In addition to modulation of the intestinal microbiota, probiotics have been observed to improve the barrier function of the intestinal mucosa (30), reducing leakage of antigens through the mucosa and thereby exposure to them. Direct modulation of the immune system may be through the induction of antiinflammatory cytokines or through increased production of secretory IgA (31). IgA will contribute to an exclusion of antigens from the intestinal mucosa. Further, enzymatic degradation of dietary antigens by enzymes from probiotics will reduce the load of and exposure to antigens (32). These and other mechanisms contribute to reduced exposure of the immune system to dietary antigens.

For the future, it will be important to determine the mechanisms behind the probiotic action on allergy. This will enable further improvement of the use of probiotics. A thorough knowledge of the intestinal microbiota of allergic and healthy infants presents an opportunity to select more effective strains or combinations of strains. Because probiotics modulate the composition and/or activity of the intestinal microbiota, it is important to obtain information on the intestinal microbiota, not only from fecal samples, as is common practice, but also from the mucosa-associated microbiota. In addition to probiotics, (n-3) fatty acids (33) and antioxidants (34) have been suggested to contribute to a protection against allergy. Also, prebiotics may modulate the immune response through similar mechanisms as probiotics (35) and reduce inflammation (36). The influence on allergy of the combination of these dietary components and probiotics deserves further investigation.

Thus, although probiotic therapy appears to be a promising approach in the treatment and prevention of allergy, there are still a substantial number of questions that remain to be answered.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/9433/title/Nurturing_Our_Microbes[/url]

[QUOTE][B]Tuning immunity[/B]

Probiotics are usually promoted as supporting intestinal health—a polite way of hinting that they may reduce the risk of diarrhea or bloating. Far less appreciated is the broad range of immune conditions for which they show promise.

The gut "is the body's largest immune organ," notes Arthur C. Ouwehand of the University of Turku, Finland, and of Danisco Innovation, a company that makes probiotics-enhanced foods. That's why investigators at his and other research centers are exploring probiotics to improve immunity.

A study in 2005 by Schrezenmeir and his colleagues showed that daily treatment with a trio of probiotics didn't reduce the incidence of colds. But the supplementation did reduce the severity and duration of cold symptoms—including fever—compared with a group of people that didn't get probiotics.

"We don't know the mechanism" for the probiotic advantage, Schrezenmeir says. However, in individuals given probiotics, the number of activated helper T cells—white blood cells that fight infection—increased, as did the number of germ-killing cells.

Probiotics may move the immune system in the opposite direction as well. Over the past year, several research teams reported some success with probiotics in treating inflammatory bowel disease. At least one study found they could help control exaggerated inflammation in intensive care patients at high risk for multiple organ dysfunction syndrome—a hyperinflammatory condition. And in a paper last August, Ouwehand recounted how probiotics administered to pregnant women and babies reduced the likelihood that high-risk infants developed food allergies.

In its newest work, Schrezenmeir's team incubated immune cells from the blood of healthy or allergic individuals together with several immune-stimulating substances. Cells from all of the people responded, but only cells from allergic people showed an exaggerated response to allergens.

Adding four probiotic microbes or the naked DNA from probiotic bacteria to the mix substantially ratcheted down the response of immune cells, especially for people with allergies. About half of the immune-dampening effect in probiotic-treated cells was attributed to the live bugs, and half to their DNA—released when the beneficial bugs died. The work will appear in an upcoming Immunobiology.

Probiotic benefits are typically attributed to the fact that supplemented microbes were alive. However, receptors on the surfaces of both immune cells and cells lining the gut can bind DNA, Schrezenmeir notes. Probiotic DNA won't be accessible to those cells until the microbe dies. His team's new data suggest that probiotics—dead or alive—can affect systems in the body, perhaps by contributing to the communications among the gut's native microbes.
[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=marko;1047696]also if you have a general link on what probiotics do (I know you keep good links) I'd love to know more.[/quote]

Some links specific to pets:
[url=http://www.cvm.okstate.edu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=283:what-are-probiotics-and-when-are-they-used-as-a-treatment-in-cats-and-dogs&catid=27:small-animal-questions&Itemid=315]WHAT ARE PROBIOTICS AND WHEN ARE THEY USED AS A TREATMENT IN CATS AND DOGS?[/url]

[url=http://jn.nutrition.org/content/128/12/2730S.full]The Use of Probiotics in the Diet of Dogs[/url]

[url=http://www.flintriver.com/Probiotics-Healthy-Pet-Boost.htm]The Benefits of Probiotics for Your Pet[/url]

marko October 14th, 2012 08:39 AM

Thanks so much for those links SCM - will check them out :goodvibes:

Happy to report that Baci is slowly getting better. He is less sneezy, phlegmy and less cough-y than a few days ago and is sleeping more comfortably at night.

Thanks everyone!

hazelrunpack October 14th, 2012 12:34 PM

Glad to hear the lil guy is feeling better! :goodvibes:


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