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-   -   9 yo German shepherd/ Akita problems (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=78855)

r0bb53 October 2nd, 2011 11:29 AM

9 yo German shepherd/ Akita problems
 
hey guys im new to this site. my name is Rob and i have a 9 year old German Shepherd/Akita named Timber. About a week ago after we came back from our house in the country he started doing a slight dry heaving and we thought nothing of it as he does tend to eat grass and throw up from it. as days have went on it got worse and he was now retching and throwing up white foam. we took him to the vet and all tests came back negative. the symptoms continued and his mood started to change where he would not greet us at the door anymore, he sleeps a lot more and not sure if this is related but he poops in the house small amounts and it is soft (never poops in house) and it seems to us he doesnt realize he is doing it. he eats very little but seems to be drinking water regularly. we took him to a veterinary hospital in new york city, he stayed over night and still all tests came back negative as well as xrays. we are at a loss here and have no idea how to help him. any suggestions? and he is up to date on all of his shots.

Winston October 2nd, 2011 02:22 PM

Is he still eating? can you try giving him some plain rice and boiled hamberger? keep it bland. Maybe try some yogurt to ease his tummy? Did the vet prescribe anything?

r0bb53 October 2nd, 2011 03:19 PM

he eats very little all day long and now whatever he drinks he throws right up.

Rgeurts October 2nd, 2011 03:21 PM

[QUOTE=r0bb53;1025692]hey guys im new to this site. my name is Rob and i have a 9 year old German Shepherd/Akita named Timber. About a week ago after we came back from our house in the country he started doing a slight dry heaving and we thought nothing of it as he does tend to eat grass and throw up from it. as days have went on it got worse and he was now retching and throwing up white foam. we took him to the vet and all tests came back negative. the symptoms continued and his mood started to change where he would not greet us at the door anymore, he sleeps a lot more and not sure if this is related but he poops in the house small amounts and it is soft (never poops in house) and it seems to us he doesnt realize he is doing it. he eats very little but seems to be drinking water regularly. we took him to a veterinary hospital in new york city, he stayed over night and still all tests came back negative as well as xrays. we are at a loss here and have no idea how to help him. any suggestions? and he is up to date on all of his shots.[/QUOTE]

Welcome to the board Rob :)
I'm sorry you are going though this with your sweet boy. Has he had an abdominal ultrasound or CT scan? I have no use for x-rays when it comes to tummy issues. The reason is that we have a Malamute that has Pica. Our vets thought he had a blockage (on more than one occasion) and we went through several sets of x-rays all showing absolutely nothing. This went on for about 3 weeks. He had a lot of similar symptoms to your boy, except ours was bloated as well (looked like a little cow some days), but he was also on Prednisone which makes them bloated. Anyway, they finally decided to to a Barium swallow and Ultrasound. At the end of the day, when we picked him up, they said it looked like there "might" be something in his stomach, but nothing they would "hang their hat on". So we left, frustrated, again. Later that night I took him out for a potty and he started to poop. I'll spare you all the disgusting details, but what came out was a shock! He had swallowed, and pooped out, a whole rope chew toy... knots, tassels and all, about 10 inches long :eek: :eek:
The next night he pooped out a sock. 2 days later he pooped out another sock! Then a stuffed toy he had eaten at daycare a couple weeks before. He had all that in his little tummy and the x-rays (about 4 different sets) didn't see any of it!

Our other boy gets similar symptoms as well. He had been through many tests. All blood tests normal etc. So we just lived with it for years and chalked it up to a sick tummy. 2 yrs ago he got really sick again. We took him to a different vet and they diagnosed him with Colitis. Maybe ask your vet about that as well. It won't show up in any blood test they do. Good luck and please let us know how he is doing. I would love to see a pic of him :)

r0bb53 October 2nd, 2011 04:17 PM

this is what my poor dog is on:

PRILOSEC 20 MG
1 1X
ANTACID
PEPCID 10MG
1 1X
ANTACID
MOUTHWASH
5-10ML 3X
ANTACID - 1 HOUR FROM OTHER MEDS
CARAFATE (SUCRALFATE) 1 GRAM
1 3X
COATS STOMACH - 1 HOUR FROM OTHER MEDS
METRONIDAZOLE 250 MG
1 2X
ANTIBIOTIC
CERENIA 16MG
2 1X
NAUSEA - GIVE FOR 4 DAYS IN A ROW THEN STOP FOR 2 DAYS - FRI, SAT, SUN & MON - THEN STOP FOR 2 DAYS
MIRTAZIPINE 15MG
1 1X
APPETITE STIMULANT
ZOFRAN (ONDANSETRON) 4MG
2 1X
NAUSEA
REGLAN (METOCLOPRAMIDE) 10MG
1.5 2X
NAUSEA FOR 10 DAYS

r0bb53 October 2nd, 2011 04:24 PM

he isnt bloated, has had ultrasounds, xrays and had endoscope of upper and colon. all this just doesnt make sense.:(

r0bb53 October 2nd, 2011 05:44 PM

my girlfriend who used to work at a veterinary hospital thinks it may be leptospirosis and the antibiotic he is on will not work against it. has anyone has experience with this?

Winston October 2nd, 2011 05:59 PM

Robb there are a couple of members here who I am 100% sure have experience with that. They will likely be on a bit later if you check in again.

I hope you can get some answers soon..:thumbs up

breeze October 2nd, 2011 06:03 PM

this is what I found when I did a search on pets

click on the link

[url]http://www.pets.ca/dogs/articles/canine-leptospirosis/[/url]

if this is the case couldn't you call your vet or go see your vet and ask for them to do test for this on Timber??

r0bb53 October 2nd, 2011 07:29 PM

[QUOTE=breeze;1025714]this is what I found when I did a search on pets

click on the link

[url]http://www.pets.ca/dogs/articles/canine-leptospirosis/[/url]

if this is the case couldn't you call your vet or go see your vet and ask for them to do test for this on Timber??[/QUOTE]
thank you, any info on it will greatly help. and yes we are in contact with the hospital right now and it is very possible we will take him back asap. he still refuses food and throws up any water he drinks almost immediately after swallowing.

breeze October 2nd, 2011 07:33 PM

[QUOTE=r0bb53;1025754]thank you, any info on it will greatly help. and yes we are in contact with the hospital right now and it is very possible we will take him back asap. he still refuses food and throws up any water he drinks almost immediately after swallowing.[/QUOTE]


can you try low sodium chicken broth?? he might be able to tolerate it better than water..
and maybe raise the dish as this might help

ask your vet first if this is ok to try (I don't want to cause any more discomfort or do anything to make things worst)

hazelrunpack October 2nd, 2011 07:39 PM

They can run titers to see if there is lepto exposure, r0bb53. It appears to be endemic in our area and we get recurring cases, but all have been mild. We notice the symptoms and treat it early.

We've never had lepto manifest with the symptoms your dog is having, but that might be just because we've been fortunate to catch it quickly.

It sounds more to me like a blockage of some sort--and as Rgeurts says, xrays can be pretty useless for blockages or partial blockages.

If he's not keeping water down, he's likely going to need fluids for dehydration, so I'm glad you're keeping in touch with the vet hospital. I hope you get some answers about Timber's condition soon! :goodvibes:

Rgeurts October 2nd, 2011 08:59 PM

When he does throw up, is it always just the white foam? Or does he occasionaly throw up food as well? And if so, is the vomit in a puddle or a "tube" shape?

MaxaLisa October 2nd, 2011 11:12 PM

Lepto, tick disease, infection....are all blood counts, platelets, red blood cells absolutely well within normal?

r0bb53 October 3rd, 2011 09:29 AM

1 Attachment(s)
here is timbers discharge papers with the doctors findings :

breeze October 3rd, 2011 09:47 AM

is timber doing any better today??

:fingerscr:goodvibes:

r0bb53 October 3rd, 2011 10:28 AM

timber was brought back to the hospital this morning. no signs of improvement. we needed to get him hydrated and he wasnt drinking on his own. they put him on prednisone with an IV in him. still waiting for biopsy. although his mood did seem to improve slightly. he was excited when his leash was put on him and seemed to have maybe a bit more energy

breeze October 3rd, 2011 10:34 AM

I hope they get to the bottom of Timbers problem!!

:fingerscr:fingerscr

r0bb53 October 3rd, 2011 10:59 AM

thank you! we do too. i will try and get a picture of him up today

r0bb53 October 3rd, 2011 11:09 AM

[IMG]http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af284/rayjayscaddu/IMG_0275.jpg[/IMG]

hazelrunpack October 3rd, 2011 01:04 PM

He's a handsome boy, r0bb! I hope they can get to the bottom of this! :goodvibes:

breeze October 3rd, 2011 02:13 PM

good looking boy Robb

:eek: and look at that snow!! :eek: it's almost that time of year again isn't it :D

MaxaLisa October 3rd, 2011 02:56 PM

Maybe look to a systemic infection that attacks the nervous system?

I was just reading about this over the weekend - weird things can happen:

[url]http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=0+1275+2025&aid=3366[/url]
[url]http://www.cvm.missouri.edu/neurology/dysauton/dyshome.htm[/url]

I think my boy has some weird, mild version of this...I found references to it near Montana too, and I'm sure that it's not isolated.

I hope it's not this....but I would be looking at combination antibiotics and other things.

:grouphug:

Rgeurts October 3rd, 2011 04:59 PM

MaxaLisa, what a scary (and heartbreaking) disease :(
The second link with the story of the little boy brought tears to my eyes.
You think your dog may have this??

r0bb53 October 3rd, 2011 06:18 PM

[QUOTE=Rgeurts;1025913]MaxaLisa, what a scary (and heartbreaking) disease :(
The second link with the story of the little boy brought tears to my eyes.
You think your dog may have this??[/QUOTE]

just spoke to vet and yes unfortunately they do think he has dysautonomia ... we are beside ourselves. he was perfectly fine 2 weeks ago.

Winston October 3rd, 2011 06:26 PM

Robb I am so sorry to hear this. Is there a prognosis? course of treatment? its so hard when these things happen. Please know we are here for you!

hazelrunpack October 3rd, 2011 07:40 PM

I'm sorry you didn't get better news, r0bb :grouphug: Is your vet going to refer you to a specialist?

r0bb53 October 3rd, 2011 08:15 PM

[QUOTE=Rgeurts;1025773]When he does throw up, is it always just the white foam? Or does he occasionaly throw up food as well? And if so, is the vomit in a puddle or a "tube" shape?[/QUOTE]

when he vomits it is a clear liquid with thick white foam in the center. the 2 look almost separated like oil and water would together.

MaxaLisa October 3rd, 2011 11:15 PM

[QUOTE=r0bb53;1025925]just spoke to vet and yes unfortunately they do think he has dysautonomia ... we are beside ourselves. he was perfectly fine 2 weeks ago.[/QUOTE]

Crap, this is just terrible. I am so very sorry. I couldn't find any treatments in any of the material I read. I hope that your vets are hooked into something creative, or have some ideas. There were a couple of links that commented on weird bacterias triggering this - I don't think that metro will be enough.

MaxaLisa October 3rd, 2011 11:37 PM

[QUOTE=Rgeurts;1025913]MaxaLisa, what a scary (and heartbreaking) disease :(
The second link with the story of the little boy brought tears to my eyes.
You think your dog may have this??[/QUOTE]

I think that Max has a very mild version of this.

According to the internal medicine specialist, he thinks that Max probably has a systemic infection of probably a pathogenic form of e. coli. It has caused systemic inflammation.

His heart has become undersized because it is not getting enough blood to it, thought to be because his veins are too dilated from the inflammation - some weird combination of the bacteria and the endotoxins that are being emitted. There are other changes in his pulmonary vasculature.

His digestive process had almost stopped....stomach very inflamed, very few bowel movements, no bowel sounds, funny noises in his esophagus. He has gone from always urinating, to almost never urinating.

His hormonal system and neurotransmitters are all out of wack.

Max has been on antibiotics that I have had him on for quite some time (long history there, starting with a perianal fistula). I've been playing with the abx myself, since the vets kept telling me it was all autoimmune. FINALLY, when I hooked up with the internal medicine guy, he was the one that put all the weird test results together. We don't have a definitive positive on infection though. Unfortunately, I didn't have him on the right antibitiocs for whatever this bug is, or I haven't fought the endotoxins, or something.

Currently we've had Max on cipro, doxycycline, and amoxicillin. He's been getting vitamin C infusions for the last couple of months. I grind his food, and have him on a variety of herbal supports. The digestive stuff was helped with the grinding of the food, digestive enzymes, probiotics, chlorophyll, coconut oil, zantac, and carafate. I recently added some Honest Kitchen's Perfect Form, and that really does help, except the ingredients are diuretics, which aren't good for his veins. I just ordered a motility drug that they use overseas, through an overseas pharmacy - haven't decided if I will try it, but I might need to. I think when the digestive system gets backed up, the problem is even worse and becomes a downward spiral.

That's just a snapshot of some of the support I'm giving him, but I fear that we are on our last hurrah here, though I'm hoping I am wrong. If he makes it, it's only because he's been on abx for years for something somewhat unrelated.


Rob,

About a year ago (1 year and 1 day to be exact), my girl died of some mystery disease induced by infection, in a rather tragic way. It's so very difficult, and so very unfair.

I will be hoping that Timber beats this, he is such a handsome boy.

:pray:


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