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-   -   Winnie and her enzyme number...any suggestions (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=76401)

cpietra16 April 11th, 2011 01:25 PM

Winnie and her enzyme number...any suggestions
 
I think the problem with having older pets...at the same time...they all get old!!!!!UGH.
Having lost, Nickie, Crunchie and Bailey all in one year, I am now faced with losing Winnie.
I realise I don't talk about Winnie very much, but Winnie is my Golden Lab who just turned 13 in December. Like every year we go for our check up and every year she seems to be ok for an old "dog".

A bit of history:
Winnie has been on Glucosamine/chondroitin for about 6 years (I anticipated arthritis).
In the last few years she has been on and off Deramaxx. She just started some this week again, but since her enzymes are so high I will take her off.
She is also on Propalin for incontenancy..I think that's a word. She pees in her sleep...


This year we did notice a weight loss. Now keep in mind She is a Lab and has been on a pretty good diet, but unfortunately she was always over her ideal weight. So here is my problem....
1- Winnie has lost 16 lbs since last year...which I thought "finally"...however I was concerned so we did some blood tests...
the results suck big time!!!!!!

Her enzyme level indicate that she may or may not have a tumor, a growth, a something going on...here are the numbers and if any of you have some ideas..I am all ears!!!

ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE - 1,500
ALT-350
GGT -20


With number like that I don't want her on Deramaxx and may try accupunture for pain management...or is that a bad idea???

At 13 I don't want to make her more uncomfortable even if it is a tumor or growth in her liver....she is 13 and I want her to enjoy the last spring/summer...
I guess what I want to know is....is ther pain medication that is safe for a dog?
Can the number above indicate something else?
Has any one on this board ever had those kinds of numbers?
Any suggestions will be grateful...thankyou

ScottieDog April 11th, 2011 03:31 PM

I'm sorry you are so worried about your sweet Winnie. I can tell you love her dearly.

I don't know anything about the GGT level, but have experienced elevated ALKP and ALT levels in two of my Scotties. First, Scottish Terriers often run an elevated Alkaline Phosphatase level.

My rescue dog Tipper had elevated ALKP from age 4. We tried her on a supplement called Denosyl for several months. The levels dropped but never reached the normal range. We also tested her for Cushings Disease, but she exhibited several additional symptoms. At age 10, she had surgery to remove her spleen which compromised her immune system. At age 11 she needed bladder surgery and a liver biopsy at the same time discovered she had bacterial hepatitis. Her two liver values were through the roof (ALKP 2,000, ALT 1,800). She was started on antibiotics and a liver supplement called Denamarin (basically milk thistle and SAM-e.) We retested in 6 weeks and the values each dropped by around 800 points. A health issue not related to the liver occurred and she passed away so I don't have long-term results.

My first Scottie, Mac had elevated ALKP levels discovered around age 7 with a senior blood panel. We tried the Denosyl on him as well, but never got the value in the normal range (his level was typically 600-800). Mac did pass from liver failure/suspected liver cancer at age 14 1/2, which isn't bad for a breed with a life-expectancy of 12-15 years. My vet felt the liver problem was a secondary tumor/cancer and I didn't pursue any testing to discover where the cancer may have originated. He lived a wonderful life for many years with his ALKP elevated.

Both the supplements worked well for my dogs. I will say that the Denamarin seems a better choice. I will link to both drugs so you can review and see if this is something you want to talk to your vet about:

[url]http://www.drugs.com/vet/denamarin.html[/url]
[url]http://www.drugs.com/vet/denosyl.html[/url]

We only had the biopsy for Tipper due to an unrelated abdominal surgery. Mac's problem was discovered on ultrasound. Your vet can do an ultrasound of the abdomen to check for tumors in the liver. How to pursue depends on how aggressively you wish to treat. The supplements should be a safe thing to give if you want to check into one of them.

cpietra16 April 11th, 2011 03:41 PM

Thank-you ScottieDog, I appreciate your information. I think I searched on the site and saw your thread mentioning Sam-e and Milk thistle...I will be getting some for her to see if it helps in some way. Ofcourse, this still leaves me with trying to ease her pain with her arthritis...I have made an appointemtn to see a homeopathic vet so that we can start something ASAP...again thanks for all your input.

chico2 April 11th, 2011 04:03 PM

cpietra,I have no advice to give,but I am sorry to hear about Winnie,she is such a sweet girl:lovestruck:
You have had a hard time with kitties dying,I can only hope there is some way to help Winnie:pray:

hazelrunpack April 11th, 2011 04:17 PM

:grouphug: Have you tried upping her glucosamine/chondroitin, cpietra? Sometimes you need to adjust the dose. And definitely discontinue the Deramaxx till you talk to the vet--it [I]is[/I] pretty hard on the liver.

Acupuncture is a great option if it's available. I've heard of some nearly miraculous results for animals that needed pain management. Make sure you get a qualified therapist, though. We're thinking of starting Belle on it soon--her back is getting stiffer as she gets older.

I hope you can find a good regimen for Winnie and have many more years with her! :grouphug:

cpietra16 April 12th, 2011 06:06 AM

Thanks Hazelrunpack for the advice. Winnie is on 900mg x3 twice a day. And I will be trying milk thistle as well (via... luckypenny and Scottiedog's previous thread) . My friend also suggested Recovery SA for her arthritis...with her enxymes this high, I am afraid I am just trying to make her as comfortable as possible at this point. I guess they can only live as long as they live....:(

hazelrunpack April 12th, 2011 08:33 AM

And they never live long enough :( :grouphug:

cpietra16 April 13th, 2011 05:51 AM

I got the milk thistle and it is of course for people... 1 -150mg x3 a day...what would I give Winnie who weighs 42kg?

Luckypenny, these are gel caps so I can't cut them:shrug:


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