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-   -   Brad Pattinson, training methods (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=75970)

katylynnlee March 23rd, 2011 12:30 AM

Brad Pattinson, training methods
 
I'm aware that I'm a new member and this may already have been a topic previous to me posting, but I was researching and found a similar thread comparing his techniques to Caesar Millan's.

I'm not bias to either one of these trainers, but I notice a lot of people were in favor towards Caesar. My friend's father watches Caesar religiously and he has beautifully trained dogs. However, I am in the middle of reading Brad Pattison's book Unleashed, as I have no real anger towards the way he treats people on his show and still watch it. I think he could express himself more calmly in my opinion, like Caesar does (probably the reason he is favored more), but his point gets across regardless, that it's 99% unlikely that a dog's unruly behaviour is its own fault or doing, and that people should be active and take responsibility for the living creatives they decided to adopt.

I am currently planning on reading both trainers books, though right now I see nothing wrong with the training that is taught in Brad's book. The videos and blogs on the internet claiming he is some animal abuser seem irrelevant to me in my search for proper dog training, since I cannot yet find a reliable source, nor do I care (If true, it's horrible but also off topic in my discussion). His book talks about maintaining alpha status, as I imagine Caesar's does too. And teaches effective ways to train dogs that are on their way to having behaviour problems and stopping them before it's too late.

I honestly do not care which one is better, and I just think people should take responsibility for their pets, and it requires some crazed man yelling in your face about it, then so be it. The animal deserves to have a family that is well educated and takes the time to care for it properly. Which I'm sure both trainers agree on, just maybe one of them is a little deranged and antisocial.

I apologize for the random newbie rant, but I think I needed some kind of vent after reading so many negative posts and I like to express myself. I am considering going into dog training myself, and I will take with me one, both or many more methods with me when I pursue it. If I do try Brad's techniques, the difference will be a calm disposition like Caesar's. Hopefully it creates some sort of happy medium. The only thing that matters is the dog's happiness though, no matter what.

rainbow March 23rd, 2011 01:24 AM

Hi katylynnlee and welcome to pets.ca :thumbs up

I'm not an expert on training but SamIAm is logged on right now and I'm sure she will have some advice. :D

SamIam March 23rd, 2011 01:24 AM

Training a dog is a difficult task. Training humans is even harder. To do both at once and on film and make yourself look not just good but perfect???

When you become a dog trainer, do not train like Brad Pattison, do not train like Caesar Millan. Learn everything you can from as many behaviourists, trainers, psychologists, teachers, veterinarians as you can, including those you think may be wrong. Build yourself a solid foundation, stand on it and be you.

katylynnlee March 23rd, 2011 01:50 AM

[QUOTE=SamIam;995704]Training a dog is a difficult task. Training humans is even harder. To do both at once and on film and make yourself look not just good but perfect???

When you become a dog trainer, do not train like Brad Pattison, do not train like Caesar Millan. Learn everything you can from as many behaviourists, trainers, psychologists, teachers, veterinarians as you can, including those you think may be wrong. Build yourself a solid foundation, stand on it and be you.[/QUOTE]

Well said. I just wanted to get out there that it doesn't matter who these people are, or what they do, it matters on the effect and impact they have on the dog itself.

And thanks. I have been researching a lot, and I have my first "customer" that I'm going to try some techniques on, since its owners have no training schedule or regimen what's so ever.

millitntanimist March 23rd, 2011 08:51 AM

There are more sides to the story than just Cesar or Brad.
I dislike both because their methods are based on some fairly antiquated pseudo-science of "dog psychology" and their techniques usually involve the heavy use of P+ (or positive punishment) which (again) is a holdover from a bygone era.
I think it's fantastic that you are interested in dog training and that you are doing your research about it first :thumbs up

If you are interested I might suggest a few books from another perspective:

On training
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Power-Positive-Dog-Training/dp/0764536095[/url]
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Other-End-Leash-What-Around/dp/034544678X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1300888201&sr=1-1[/url]
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Culture-Clash-Revolutionary-Understanding-Relationship/dp/1888047054/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1300888228&sr=1-1[/url]

On learning theory
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Shoot-Dog-Teaching-Training/dp/0553380397[/url]

On dog evolution
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Dogs-Understanding-Canine-Behavior-Evolution/dp/0226115631/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1300888258&sr=1-1[/url]

On dog body language (this one is short and sweet)
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Talking-Terms-Dogs-Calming-Signals/dp/1929242360/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1300888293&sr=1-1[/url]

Happy reading!

BenMax March 23rd, 2011 09:20 AM

To start off with I think it is more important to know your breeds first and have an understanding on how to [B]evaluate[/B] the dog itself and focus on the dog as an individual being. Knowing what the dog's limitations are and working on finding the correct method to use based on pre-dominant traits within the dog. Also, it is important to know the limitations of each dog based on traits/breed/temperament. It is not generic and full understanding of the dog itself should be considered. To me, this would be step one before becoming a good trainer. As for training methods itself, I personally think it is important to attend as many seminars as possible, as well as learning about a variety of different methods. I do not believe that one method is better than another, and based on the dogs you train, there should not be generic thinking behind the methods to use. I grab all that I really like, consider the possibilities of those that I am not fond of..but do not discard either. Keeping an open mind is the most important when it comes to training. What works for one, may not for another. Best practice is to consult with other trainers that are seasoned. Listen, watch and learn. As a trainer it is important to feel comfortable with your approach and it is equally important that your customers agree with your methods. Really, one of the biggest challenges are the humans and not the dogs. As a trainer you will be praised by some and not so by others. You will gain your following based on results seen in the dog. The people are the ones to follow up on thereafter as training, behavior modification and any other fixes or adjustments rely on consistency and continuation of the tools given to the owners. That is the biggest challenge.

Criosphynx March 23rd, 2011 11:58 PM

[QUOTE=millitntanimist;995756]There are more sides to the story than just Cesar or Brad.
I dislike both because their methods are based on some fairly antiquated pseudo-science of "dog psychology" and their techniques usually involve the heavy use of P+ (or positive punishment) which (again) is a holdover from a bygone era.
I think it's fantastic that you are interested in dog training and that you are doing your research about it first :thumbs up

If you are interested I might suggest a few books from another perspective:

On training
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Power-Positive-Dog-Training/dp/0764536095[/url]
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Other-End-Leash-What-Around/dp/034544678X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1300888201&sr=1-1[/url]
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Culture-Clash-Revolutionary-Understanding-Relationship/dp/1888047054/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1300888228&sr=1-1[/url]

On learning theory
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Shoot-Dog-Teaching-Training/dp/0553380397[/url]

On dog evolution
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Dogs-Understanding-Canine-Behavior-Evolution/dp/0226115631/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1300888258&sr=1-1[/url]

On dog body language (this one is short and sweet)
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Talking-Terms-Dogs-Calming-Signals/dp/1929242360/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1300888293&sr=1-1[/url]

Happy reading![/QUOTE]



this


x 10000



and ditto the people thing. Main reason I don't persue it more often is the human factor. Depending on what you teach/offer, you likely wont be teaching "fun stuff" to wonderful willing people who hang on your every word.. whats more likely is you will be repeating the same potty training/loose leash/other simple task speal over and over to dense clients. Client compliance is a huge issue.


I personally do not recommend you follow the methods of either of those TV trainers. They are not reality based, and rely on pseudo science that is easily debunked.

GalaxiesKuklos March 24th, 2011 01:16 PM

[QUOTE=Criosphynx;996134]

I personally do not recommend you follow the methods of either of those TV trainers. They are not reality based, and rely on pseudo science that is easily debunked.[/QUOTE]

Both are teriible. They may impress people with their ability to suppress behavior through force, however when it comes to actually teaching the dogs something they are both incompetent.

As far as Pattison, he once had a Facebook fight on his fan site with a detractor and challenged him to a $10 000 challenge. When the other guy accepted and suggested a CKC obedience trial, he went quiet and deleted the whole discussion.

I've read this books as well and I've found it full of lies and exaggerations. Like these

[QUOTE]"the so-called “positive reinforcement” treat-training nonsense that has turned people into doggy vending machines and dogs into potentially lethal weapons."

"Your dog needs to learn that your physical movements can be powerful and that if he gets in the way, he might get hurt"[/QUOTE]

I guess since I don't use his methods I can actually teach my dogs directional cues( "LEFT RIGHT BACK FORWARD" ) so I didn't have to make them afraid of getting hurt.


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