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-   -   Owning a lion in Ontario Canada (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=75808)

lionking March 14th, 2011 12:13 AM

Owning a lion in Ontario Canada
 
I now live in Ontario Canada and i would like to know which municipalities allow owning a lion?? I understand that there are municipalities in Ontario that have little to no rules.... And that you dont need a permit or license to own a lion??... Does anyone know what i would need to do to import a lion cub from the states? I have contacted a breeder in Ohio that has some cubs for sale and he is USDA licensed but he hasnt shipped any big cats to Canada so he is not sure on what i need to do on my end.....Do i need to contact the my ministry of Agriculture to get some paper work or how does it go??

p.s im really not on here to hear peoples opinions or their criticism im just looking for someone who can help answer my questions thanks.....

erykah1310 March 14th, 2011 12:18 AM

Why would you want to take a wild animal and force it into captivity regardless if it is captive bred?
I dont think you can legally own a lion anywhere here and your "breeder" of said lion should know the answers to your questions and really I think your best bet is to contact Ministry of Agriculture on this topic.
As for your municipalities that have little to no rules, you mean unorganized townships, however neighbours may raise a stink about a lion living next door and getting you in some major trouble with the ministry.

erykah1310 March 14th, 2011 12:48 AM

Call ministry of agriculture if you want actual facts. they will know, I didnt state any opinons at all.
If I was stating my opinions I would have said if you dont know the ins and outs of importing a lion and have to come to a public forum you probably shouldnt be importing one.

lionking March 14th, 2011 01:54 AM

Yes you def stated your opinion please look back to the very first sentence you wrote in your first message......... i will definitely call the ministry of agriculture..... And i dont know the ins and outs of IMPORTING exotics to Ontario cause i have never had to import an exotic to Ontario before....... I bet if i was asking about what i would have to do to import a sport horse stallion from Europe for my breeding program you would be more then happy to give some advise and not criticize..... just cause i dont know anything about importing exotics doesnt mean i dont have the knowledge about owning one or caring for one...

p.s im really not on here to hear peoples opinions or their criticism im just looking for someone who can help answer my questions thanks.....

kathryn March 14th, 2011 02:06 AM

Sorry but you are barking up the wrong tree. From someone who works with and owns venomous reptiles and other deadly creatures, a lion is too much for me to even think about. I don't think there is anyone here who can specifically answer your question, because we don't know EXACTLY where you live.. because even if we know that you live in Ontario, it's really hard to track anything down beyond that because we would have to contact each individual town or whatever for you and specifically ask them, and being that not many sane people would want to own a lion then chances are it would be very hard to track down an answer.

In the states we have Fish and Wildlife for our states which govern each state. like in NJ I'm technically not supposed to own venomous reptiles anywhere within the state, but I purchased them in another state that allows them.. but at the same time it's not like owning a lion or anything! My exotics are confined to appropriately sized enclosures and the only danger they would be is to myself if I was dumb enough to do something I'm not supposed to, but a lion on the other hand is something completely different.

Also where I live counties, towns and townships can override whatever Fish and Wildlife has to add more restrictions.. like for instance, owning farm animals is not forbidden in the state of NJ obviously, but my towns zoning would not approve of me having a cow in my backyard.



Good luck on your quest, but I highly doubt anyone here will help you out even if they could.. I'm not entirely sure how things work in Canada but I could try calling your town clerk or something and see what they say.. there is also the matter of buying a lion from the US to be sent to Canada.. that is a GIANT mess right there. You better make sure all the paperwork is in order and that you know all the exotic importing rules and regulations and you have the proper health certificates because I can tell you right now that I've seen first hand the kind of trouble you can get in from not having proper papers with exotic animals.. My friend had her 2 pet prairie dogs confiscated from her by Fish and Wildlife and nearly got hit with a HUGE fine for having them...

So yeah, good luck and hopefully if you decide to go threw with this we don't see you on the news like that lady that had her face ripped off by a chimp =/

lionking March 14th, 2011 02:55 AM

thanks.. Ya i know i will probably have to call each township to find out which one is ok with it ,i was just hoping someone on here already knew which townships are a go.. And yes venomous reptiles are nothing like a lion..lol...And yes i do have previous experience with dangerous animals....whether its a lion,venomous reptiles or an aggresive dog you need to be a responsible pet owner....Also i think your friend had a prob with the prairie dogs because they are native to north america and therefor are not aloud to be owned as pets here..... any ways i think your right about no one on here wanting to help me out even if they could cause i think people get worried or scared about big cats.... It has nothing to do with the whole its a wild animal and should be left in the wild..... because lets face it horses,dogs,cats, pet mice and rats all at one time were wild.....and of course reptiles they are even less domesticated then lions... lol .... this is something i am going to do for sure...... oh ya and i 2 also hope you dont see me on the news killed by my lion...lol :)

Melinda March 14th, 2011 05:10 AM

a private resident residing in Ontario is not permitted to own any wild life, not even a squirrel. Unless you have special licencing, by that it would mean having to take courses and apprentice with a "zoo" or a wildlife refuge. Look up "cougar in ottawa".....

Love4himies March 14th, 2011 08:02 AM

You should contact the Canadian Food Inspection Agency first to find out if there are any restrictions on bringing in a lion. Then I would contact the townships. No use going through all that research if you are not allowed to bring one into Canada.

aslan March 14th, 2011 08:45 AM

It is against Ontario Provincial law to own a lion,tiger,bear,wolf,wolf-hybrid,,etc etc..at this point it no longer matters what any municipality says. Even having an apprenticeship with a zoo wouldn't help you at this point. You have to be a licenced zoo or animal attraction to be able to have any of the exotics in Ontario, so even if you got the cub past the boarder, it can still be taken from you and then it will be placed at " jungle cat world" on hwy 115.

I am just curious if you are aware of the work involved with raising an animal like a lion. the expense and the danger to both you and your neighbours. It takes decades to even come close to breeding them to any semblance of tame. Look at Siegfried and Roy,,,these men have an extreme amount of experience and education of the animals they deal with including the one that finally attacked. We're not talking about an animal you alone would be able to control if it chose to attack someone or yourself..Even with help look at the amount of damage done to Roy in a matter of seconds..I really do hope you reconsider obtaining an animal like this.

exkalibur March 14th, 2011 09:02 AM

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Love4himies March 14th, 2011 09:06 AM

[QUOTE=aslan;993181]It is against Ontario Provincial law to own a lion,tiger,bear,wolf,wolf-hybrid,,etc etc..at this point it no longer matters what any municipality says. Even having an apprenticeship with a zoo wouldn't help you at this point. You have to be a licenced zoo or animal attraction to be able to have any of the exotics in Ontario, so even if you got the cub past the boarder, it can still be taken from you and then it will be placed at " jungle cat world" on hwy 115.

I am just curious if you are aware of the work involved with raising an animal like a lion. the expense and the danger to both you and your neighbours. It takes decades to even come close to breeding them to any semblance of tame. Look at Siegfried and Roy,,,these men have an extreme amount of experience and education of the animals they deal with including the one that finally attacked. We're not talking about an animal you alone would be able to control if it chose to attack someone or yourself..Even with help look at the amount of damage done to Roy in a matter of seconds..I really do hope you reconsider obtaining an animal like this.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for posting that, aslan. There is really no use going any further if the Ontario Gov't won't allow a person to own a lion as a pet.

The other thing I was thinking of is getting liability insurance. Would there be any insurance companies that would insure you???

Melinda March 14th, 2011 09:08 AM

Aslan,*S* I meant that if you get your apprenticship (spelling?) and open a rescue/refuge like the one near Picton, its where we hid the cougar when the city was threatening to remove and euthanize it. this was a good 17-19 yrs ago? I imagine he's still going because there are so many..............people who buy these types of magestic animals thinking they can make them into pets.

Longblades March 14th, 2011 10:07 AM

[QUOTE=aslan;993181][B]It is against Ontario Provincial law to own a lion,tiger,bear,wolf,wolf-hybrid,,[/B]etc etc..at this point it no longer matters what any municipality says. Even having an apprenticeship with a zoo wouldn't help you at this point. You have to be a licenced zoo or animal attraction to be able to have any of the exotics in Ontario, so even if you got the cub past the boarder, it can still be taken from you and then it will be placed at " jungle cat world" on hwy 115.

I am just curious if you are aware of the work involved with raising an animal like a lion. the expense and the danger to both you and your neighbours. It takes decades to even come close to breeding them to any semblance of tame. Look at Siegfried and Roy,,,these men have an extreme amount of experience and education of the animals they deal with including the one that finally attacked. We're not talking about an animal you alone would be able to control if it chose to attack someone or yourself..Even with help look at the amount of damage done to Roy in a matter of seconds..I really do hope you reconsider obtaining an animal like this.[/QUOTE]I believe this is NOT TRUE. While I have no desire to help someone privately house a lion I believe it does a disservice to all of us to erroneously state facts and mislead people. Aslan, if this situation has changed since the date of the article in my link then I apologize profusely to you. However, I could not find any confirmation that this has changed. If you can provide it please, please post a link.

[url]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2010/01/11/wspa-animals.html[/url]

Another point: Yes it is illegal to house any NATIVE wild animal, even a squirrel. Unless the OP has meant a mountain lion, not a African lion, he/she is free in many parts of Ontario to keep one. If the OP was truly knowledgable on the care and keeping of lions I can't help but wonder why an appeal to a pets board is made. Surely the OP is aware that few people keep lions as pets? I can think of several places to ask this question that would likely get better results.

Let me stress, please, I don't intend to cause controversy by contradiciting a respected member and I beg forgiveness if I have done so. In that case I ask once again for corroboration. I do believe this is a serious topic. We need to address it by knowing the facts. Miss-stating them does not help.


Below is the Bill, Bill 125, propsed to make illegal the keeping of exotics as pets. It has passed first reading but has yet to pass second and third readings and then has to receive Royal Assent. It is NOT law yet.


[url]http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bills_detail.do?locale=en&Intranet=&BillID=2423[/url]

Please if you wish to take action on this topic, contact your MPP and let him/her know. WE need to make sure this bill goes all the way through. the next link is a place you can file to help make this happen.

[url]http://action.wspa.ca/ea-campaign/clientcampaign.do?ea.client.id=23&ea.campaign.id=8567&ea.tracking.id=wspaca[/url]


I want to add, just in case the website linked to the bill is out of date I have contacted my MPP and asked for a call back on the timeline of this bill. I will post back when they call me.


ETA: To lighten it up a little, I have a great story about a cougar that was removed from private premises some years ago. I think I will make a separate post for your entertainment.

[COLOR="Red"]ETA: My MPP's office just called back and this bill has only passed first reading. There may be an election and if that happens there is serious danger this bill could die and never reach second reading. There is quite a way to go yet on this. Please, get active and let people know you support Bill 125.[/COLOR]

ETA: Here's my cougar story thread. [url]http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=993191#post993191[/url]

Love4himies March 14th, 2011 10:15 AM

Longblades, I just read that article and I do remember that story. It may even have been posted on pets.

It is interesting that here in Ontario, you can own a large wild cat but not a pitbull :shrug:.

Melinda March 14th, 2011 10:53 AM

I also remember that story Longblades, well not your OH's side, but the removal of the cougar *S*

14+kitties March 14th, 2011 11:29 AM

Where is NoahGrey? Seems like this query is right up her alley. Maybe someone could PM her? :shrug:

BenMax March 14th, 2011 12:26 PM

[QUOTE=14+kitties;993196]Where is NoahGrey? Seems like this query is right up her alley. Maybe someone could PM her? :shrug:

[/QUOTE]

I will contact her.

ancientgirl March 14th, 2011 01:03 PM

Let me know if and when you do get this lion. I'll be watching out for a story about someone getting mailed by a "pet" lion.

kathryn March 14th, 2011 01:11 PM

[QUOTE=ancientgirl;993207]Let me know if and when you do get this lion. I'll be watching out for a story about someone getting mailed by a "pet" lion.[/QUOTE]

I too would like to see a lion manage to fit a person in a box and send him out to post ;)


Anyways, good luck with your quest OP.. I'm into exotics too but not quite to this extent!

aslan March 14th, 2011 01:27 PM

Longblades i do stand corrected,,i got my information from Mark Grimes office,,when i called back with your info the answer i got was" OOOOOH i thought you meant Toronto"....of course i meant Toronto that's why i said Ontario...so basically i can't own a Lion but 14+ can if her municipality says so.

14+kitties March 14th, 2011 02:07 PM

[QUOTE=aslan;993217]Longblades i do stand corrected,,i got my information from Mark Grimes office,,when i called back with your info the answer i got was" OOOOOH i thought you meant Toronto"....of course i meant Toronto that's why i said Ontario...so basically i can't own a Lion but 14+ can if her municipality says so.[/QUOTE]

:thumbs up Thanks aslan but I think I'll pass. I have enough wild animals around here. ;)

lionking March 14th, 2011 05:12 PM

[QUOTE=Melinda;993169]a private resident residing in Ontario is not permitted to own any wild life, not even a squirrel. Unless you have special licencing, by that it would mean having to take courses and apprentice with a "zoo" or a wildlife refuge. Look up "cougar in ottawa".....[/QUOTE]

you are def right about animals that are NATIVE to north america, like squirrels and cougars..........

Melinda March 14th, 2011 05:13 PM

yes, I was corrected lionking *S* and I thank them for correcting me

aslan March 14th, 2011 05:20 PM

lionking,,just out of curiosity,,why do you want to own a lion? I do understand and totally agree they are beautiful animals. lol,,and i did discover many years ago right after playing with a young tiger cub that hmmmm yup they're cats and also affect ones allergies to cats. I'm not trying to be confrontational i really am curious.

lionking March 14th, 2011 05:25 PM

[QUOTE=Longblades;993189]I believe this is NOT TRUE. While I have no desire to help someone privately house a lion I believe it does a disservice to all of us to erroneously state facts and mislead people. Aslan, if this situation has changed since the date of the article in my link then I apologize profusely to you. However, I could not find any confirmation that this has changed. If you can provide it please, please post a link.

[url]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2010/01/11/wspa-animals.html[/url]

Another point: Yes it is illegal to house any NATIVE wild animal, even a squirrel. Unless the OP has meant a mountain lion, not a African lion, he/she is free in many parts of Ontario to keep one. If the OP was truly knowledgable on the care and keeping of lions I can't help but wonder why an appeal to a pets board is made. Surely the OP is aware that few people keep lions as pets? I can think of several places to ask this question that would likely get better results.

Let me stress, please, I don't intend to cause controversy by contradiciting a respected member and I beg forgiveness if I have done so. In that case I ask once again for corroboration. I do believe this is a serious topic. We need to address it by knowing the facts. Miss-stating them does not help.


Below is the Bill, Bill 125, propsed to make illegal the keeping of exotics as pets. It has passed first reading but has yet to pass second and third readings and then has to receive Royal Assent. It is NOT law yet.


[url]http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bills_detail.do?locale=en&Intranet=&BillID=2423[/url]

Please if you wish to take action on this topic, contact your MPP and let him/her know. WE need to make sure this bill goes all the way through. the next link is a place you can file to help make this happen.

[url]http://action.wspa.ca/ea-campaign/clientcampaign.do?ea.client.id=23&ea.campaign.id=8567&ea.tracking.id=wspaca[/url]


I want to add, just in case the website linked to the bill is out of date I have contacted my MPP and asked for a call back on the timeline of this bill. I will post back when they call me.


ETA: To lighten it up a little, I have a great story about a cougar that was removed from private premises some years ago. I think I will make a separate post for your entertainment.

[COLOR="Red"]ETA: My MPP's office just called back and this bill has only passed first reading. There may be an election and if that happens there is serious danger this bill could die and never reach second reading. There is quite a way to go yet on this. Please, get active and let people know you support Bill 125.[/COLOR]

ETA: Here's my cougar story thread. [url]http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=993191#post993191[/url][/QUOTE]

Thanks for your message even though it doesnt help me.... but it does help some of the people on this forum understand that they dont know what they are talking about when they start typing...lol...everything you stated is true..... But please if you know of an easier way for me to figure out these answers i would like to hear back from you as i have tried calling all sorts of numbers and have gotten nowhere.... aside from calling every township to find out their laws... If you know of a number i could call to find out my answer please let me know thanks....

chico2 March 14th, 2011 05:27 PM

I know you did not want any negativity,but IMO nobody in Ontario should own a Lion,they belong as wild animals in their own habitat.
They are beautiful creatures,majestic and wild and should remain so..

aslan March 14th, 2011 05:29 PM

[QUOTE=lionking;993304]Thanks for your message even though it doesnt help me.... but it does help most of the people on this forum understand that they dont know what they are talking about when they start typing...lol...everything you stated is true..... But please if you know of an easier way for me to figure out these answers i would like to hear back from you as i have tried calling all sorts of numbers and have gotten nowhere.... aside from calling every ministry to find out their laws... If you know of a number i could call to find out my answer please let me know thanks....[/QUOTE]

I will assume that is directed at me and I also admitted that the information i was given by my local Mp was incorrect,,when i asked about information on Exotics in Ontario the woman gave me information on Toronto. I did and do apologize for posting incorrectly. There was no need to be rude, i tried to find the information you asked for on my own time and was given false information. Now from what i have googled pretty much everything is saying it depends on the municipality. I know many years ago there was a gentleman in Pefferlaw Ontario that owned two Lions but i don't know if they are still allowed in that area.

shirley1011 March 14th, 2011 05:33 PM

ok...so why would you come to a "pet" website looking for help and as you stated...they don't know what they are talking about when they start typing".

We know a lot about pets...and as chico says they are not pets..they are beautiful creatures, majestic and wild and should remain so.

I am sure there is a government agency that can clarify all your questions, and avoid any disappointments if you are give the wrong answers.

Best of luck in finding the right answers.

sugarcatmom March 14th, 2011 05:37 PM

Lionking, I know you said you don't want to hear anyone's opinions on this rather hot-button topic, but I really think you would benefit from some gentle education if you're willing to listen. And providing you aren't a troll, which is always possible.

For starters, breeders of big cats are a sleazy bunch and do not have the best interests of the cats in mind. Doesn't matter if they have a USDA license. So do puppy millers, and we all know what a wonderful industry that is. There is no such thing as responsible breeding of big cats unless done by an accredited zoo using thorough genetic profiling (and some would argue even that has questionable merrit). A backyard lion breeder in Ohio is only concerned about making money, not about the health and welfare of the cats. Do you really want to support this dubious industry, perpetuating inferior breeding and the overpopulation of captive exotic animals?

Obviously I have no idea what your motivation is for wanting to keep a lion in the first place. If it's because you love them so much, perhaps a better avenue for your passion would be to help out in the rapidly growing field of big cat rescue (largely populated by animals surrendered or confisicated from owners who got in way over their head). As for your own knowledge of lions in captivity, if you truly are as experienced as you imply, all the more reason to channel your skills into helping lions, not hurting them.

14+kitties March 14th, 2011 05:40 PM

[QUOTE=sugarcatmom;993314]Lionking, I know you said you don't want to hear anyone's opinions on this rather hot-button topic, but I really think you would benefit from some gentle education if you're willing to listen. And providing you aren't a troll, which is always possible.

For starters, breeders of big cats are a sleazy bunch and do not have the best interests of the cats in mind. Doesn't matter if they have a USDA license. So do puppy millers, and we all know what a wonderful industry that is. There is no such thing as responsible breeding of big cats unless done by an accredited zoo using thorough genetic profiling (and some would argue even that has questionable merrit). A backyard lion breeder in Ohio is only concerned about making money, not about the health and welfare of the cats. Do you really want to support this dubious industry, perpetuating inferior breeding and the overpopulation of captive exotic animals?

Obviously I have no idea what your motivation is for wanting to keep a lion in the first place. If it's because you love them so much, perhaps a better avenue for your passion would be to help out in the rapidly growing field of big cat rescue (largely populated by animals surrendered or confisicated from owners who got in way over their head). As for your own knowledge of lions in captivity, if you truly are as experienced as you imply, all the more reason to channel your skills into helping lions, not hurting them.[/QUOTE]

:highfive::thumbs up


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