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-   -   kitty neutering (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=73860)

jassy3399 November 30th, 2010 03:02 PM

kitty neutering
 
How early is safe enough to neuter Gizmo? My regular vet won't even consider doing it until he's six months old. I called our former vet (we changed due to location/price, not lack of trust) and they're willing to do it now, since he's over 3 pounds. Is it better to wait until he's a little older? He's starting to get pretty aggressive in his play, sometimes choosing to ignore the toy I'm holding in favor of biting my hand. He'll even turn and bite while I'm petting him. Like, one second he's laying there, eyes almost closed, purring and seeming very relaxed and mellow, and the next he just turns his head and bites. I'm hoping that neutering him will help reduce his aggresiveness, but if it's not really good for him yet, then I'll have to put up with it. He's approximately 14 weeks old and as of last week monday 3.6 pounds. It's just a little confusing to me that I've got two different answers from two different vets.

Sorry, I know I'm being a little pesty with all these newby questions.

chico2 November 30th, 2010 04:37 PM

Jassy,your little Gizmo is just doing what kittens do,I would not call it aggression ,just try to avoid playing with him with your hands.
As for neutering,my vet at the time would not neuter before 6 months,but I know some will do it much earlier,all 3 of my boys were neutered at 6 months
We did have a spraying problem,I am not sure if it was related to being neutered later.

catlover2 November 30th, 2010 04:59 PM

My cats were neutered and spayed just before 4 mos. Some males can start to get studdy when they're 5 mos.

Love4himies November 30th, 2010 05:19 PM

I wouldn't say it was aggression either, just typical kitty stuff.

Sometimes cats can get over stimulated when you are patting them and neutering will not change that. Normally you will see a change in facial expression or the tail will start flickering just before they bite. Watch for these signs and stop the patting.

As for play time, a firm no when he bites your hand and then redirect his attention to the toy. Do you allow him to get the toy and is it something he can get his teeth into?

clm November 30th, 2010 05:29 PM

Sounds like normal kitty behavior to me too. My vet won't neuter before 6months of age either, but you can find vets that'll do it earlier, although like has already been said, it's not going to change this behavior.
When he starts to play too rough, redirect to a toy or stop playing. My cats all love it when I roll up a small paper ball and throw it. They bring it back to me until they get tired of that game. :laughing:
Now I never minded the biting and scratching that came with playing with them....long sleeve sweatshirts helped and I got used to having hamburger hands when they were kittens. :laughing: I can understand why a lot of people don't though, ha, ha.

clm

jassy3399 November 30th, 2010 07:26 PM

I do stop playing with him, and he always gets a good, firm no when he bites. He's sometimes pretty stubborn, tho, and he'll chase after me instead of whichever of his toys that I tried to redirect him to. Since this is a recent developement, I thought it might be due to his testicles having dropped and the accompanying surge of hormones. As it's not, I'll try to remain patient and persistant. :) And he does have a mix of toys, some hard plastic with bells in, some plush ones with feathers on that he can sink his teeth into. Not to mention several wads of paper, since he seems to love paper most of all.

Thanks for the advice!

kathryn November 30th, 2010 07:37 PM

The shelter I worked at has been doing 2 months/2 pounds for ages.. we haven't seen any long term or short term side affects from it. I've personally found it to be alot better... my one cat that we were told we had to wait until 6 months for is such a jerk.. I mean, he started becoming super aggressive around 5 months and got HUGE and was just a big nasty tom cat.. and my vet (who I still love and trust) kept saying we HAD to wait until 6 months... I feel like if at the time, we had it done earlier, he would not be such a :censored:

I know some people are wary about the 2 month rule, which I can understand, but personally I've felt the best time on both ends is 3-4 months. They are a bit bigger, a bit stronger, but still young enough where it is minimally invasive.

14+kitties December 1st, 2010 09:59 AM

The rescue I work through is six months. Before that they call it microscopic surgery. Another vet I've used says 2 pounds. It really varies greatly from vet to vet. Personally I wait till six months for all of the ones I've had done.
Has Gizmo got a couple of stuffed toys (our size, not his) that you can give him when he starts using your hand/arm to play roughly? That may be enough to divert his attention. He really is just being a bratty boy. I have a few of them myself right now.
The other way of course for him to not use you for his personal play toy is to get him a playmate. That way they will be busy playing with each other and will leave you alone. ;)

jassy3399 December 2nd, 2010 07:51 PM

Just as an update on Gizmo's biting: I tried the suggestion that a couple of you gave me about giving him a bigger stuffed toy. He loved the large stuffed cat that I had, but only as long as I was holding/shaking it, which resulted in a few misses of the toy and contact with my hands. Today I went hunting and found a plush stuffed cat toy, basically just a rectangle with a fuzzy tail hanging off the back, and he LOVED it :thumbs up

Mind you, he was less thrilled with his other present, which was his very first collar. He kept trying to bite it off, which is pretty funny to watch. I'm sure he'll get used to it pretty quick, but until then...:laughing:

thanks for the advice everyone!

chico2 December 3rd, 2010 08:53 AM

jassy,just be careful with the collar,if he's really fighting it,he can get it stuck in his mouth,happened to one of my cats,especially if he's alone all day.
It is very hard to avoid getting scratched when you have a kitten,I believe most of us cat-owners have road-map hands:cat:

amcs76 January 3rd, 2011 09:38 PM

I think 14 weeks is too young to be spayed/neutered. Our vet wouldn't neuter our older cat until he was at least 5 months old. Check with your vet though, as they may have a different age requirement for neutering.

He is a kitten, so it's in their nature to be a bit wild, playful and bite sometimes. You can use a spray bottle and spray him with water when he bites, that may help.

binkybuff January 3rd, 2011 09:51 PM

Something I do, when my cats start playing a bit rough, is to "owwwww" like a cat would. (I think it would anyway) So far, they both stop the biting, and often look at me as if to say "sorry mom". I then tell them to be gentle.

Works for my household

take care
binky

catlover2 January 4th, 2011 05:57 PM

The breeder I got my Devons from had her pet quality kitties spayed/neutered at 4 mos. before they went to new homes. They both recovered quickly, and I picked them up a week later. I've had no problems with mine, and they're 6 y.o. now.

jassy3399 January 29th, 2011 04:42 AM

as an update/updated question, upon everyone's advice/suggestions, I chose to wait until Gizme is 6 months. He loves his big stuffies (see video in another thread!) and our issues with him biting me have (mostly) disappeared. However, 6 months is approaching, so I'll be making the appointment to get him snipped. So the updated question part is this: I plan to take at least the day of the surgery off to be with him, of course, but how quickly should he recover and be safe to leave alone for the 8 hours I'm at work? I had my dog neutered, but at the time I only worked part time, plus I lived at home so between all our schedules, he was never left alone, so I can't recall. Getting time off is no problem, I'm fortunate to have vacation time, I'm just wondering how many days I should plan to be with him.

chico2 January 29th, 2011 09:45 AM

jassy,my cats were all neutered at 6 months(vets norm)and I don't remember taking any time off,they were fine.
The vet kept them until they were awake and alert,eager to go home..:cat:
But to be sure Gizmo is ok,it cannot hurt to take a day off.

Love4himies January 29th, 2011 10:08 AM

Kitty neutering is a fairly simple surgery and should be back to his old self within 24 hours of the surgery. The worst part seems to be the after affects of the anesthesia.

14+kitties January 29th, 2011 11:08 AM

With all the kitties I have had done at six months or older the boys all seem to be back to normal by next day. If Gizmo is staying overnight at the vets (some do) then he will be his regular self when you pick him up.
Good luck with Dart's twin. :D:cloud9:

jassy3399 March 6th, 2011 01:03 AM

Alright, I'm back again. Gizmo goes in on the 14th to be neutered, and I was reading over the information packet the vet sent me, and part of it isn't very clear. They use a laser to perform the surgery, and mention post op pain management as an addition to the surgery. They'll give him an injection after, so that he can rest comfortably for the afternoon. Then they talk about an oral pain medication for the next couple of days. I know animals tend to heal quicker than humans, but pain meds for just a couple of days seems a bit...lacking. How long would you typically assume they need pain pills for, assuming there are no complications? Remington was on pain pills for a week, I think, but they didn't use the laser back then, so I assume that makes a difference. Should I ask for a week's supply of the pain meds?

and on a side note, how on earth does one pill a cat? The dog lets me open his mouth and put the pill at the back of his throat, but I'm thinking Gizmo wouldn't be so tolerant.

kathryn March 6th, 2011 01:24 AM

[QUOTE=jassy3399;991415]Alright, I'm back again. Gizmo goes in on the 14th to be neutered, and I was reading over the information packet the vet sent me, and part of it isn't very clear. They use a laser to perform the surgery, and mention post op pain management as an addition to the surgery. They'll give him an injection after, so that he can rest comfortably for the afternoon. Then they talk about an oral pain medication for the next couple of days. I know animals tend to heal quicker than humans, but pain meds for just a couple of days seems a bit...lacking. How long would you typically assume they need pain pills for, assuming there are no complications? Remington was on pain pills for a week, I think, but they didn't use the laser back then, so I assume that makes a difference. Should I ask for a week's supply of the pain meds?

and on a side note, how on earth does one pill a cat? The dog lets me open his mouth and put the pill at the back of his throat, but I'm thinking Gizmo wouldn't be so tolerant.[/QUOTE]


I don't give pain meds post-op for regular spays and neuters, especially not neuters. In 99.99999% cases it's totally not needed and also poses a danger in the form that if the cat has not had any bloodwork done, or just in freak occurrences, use of pain meds can cause renal or kidney failure. I won't even do pain meds at the time of surgery for neuters. It's just too risky for something that's nothing more than a papercut. And no, I'm not kidding.. it would be like giving morphine to a kid who scraped their knee. Sometimes you gotta just suck it up and deal with it for a bit. Actually I'd probably pick being a male cat being neutered over scraping my knee :laughing:

Also, I don't know why on earth you would need a laser for a neuter :confused: I could neuter a cat myself with a kitchen knife and blindfolded :p

Here is what I say to those who are very concerned about pain meds: Would you rather have a live kitty that is a bit uncomfortable or a dead one? May be harsh, but too often have I seen the very sad things that happen from dosing up a cat or a dog on pain meds. The pain helps them heal, so that way they KNOW how much activity they can safely manage. When they get all hopped up on pain meds (especially dogs!), they often feel MUCH better than they should and become over active. This results in serious injuries, major bleeding and sometimes.. the unthinkable. (Oh, and for those that have been like "oh what it it was you!", I have lupus, so I'm quite aware of how not fun pain is.)


Hope that helps :)

14+kitties March 6th, 2011 10:02 AM

Male cats' neuter surgery is pretty easy. I also never give pain meds to males. I have never had an adverse reaction from any males I've had neutered. In most cases they don't even bother with the tiny incision very much. Within a day or so you'd never think anything was done. Good luck Gizmo. :cloud9::goodvibes:

chico2 March 6th, 2011 11:37 AM

The same with my boys,no pain-meds,no problems...they usually are a little dopey when they get home anyway,I think that takes care of any immediate pain,but as soon as it wears off they were ok..didn't even know what they were missing:cat:

sugarcatmom March 6th, 2011 12:28 PM

[QUOTE=jassy3399;991415]They'll give him an injection after, so that he can rest comfortably for the afternoon. [/quote]

Probably Metacam. A one time post-surgical injection in a young cat is not likely to be a problem.

[QUOTE=jassy3399;991415]Then they talk about an oral pain medication for the next couple of days. [/quote]

I'd be very careful about this part. Like everyone else has said, most uncomplicated neuters don't need any further pain medication. The boys recover in a day and are back to being their rambunctious selves. If the oral pain medication that your vet is planning to use is more Metacam, that's an off-label use of the drug that has been given a black box warning by the FDA as having potential to cause kidney failure. For some reason, many vets continue to ignore that little tidbit. [url]http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/CVMUpdates/ucm231254.htm[/url]

jassy3399 March 6th, 2011 01:06 PM

wow, looks like I'm making a call tomorrow to investigate this further! Thanks guys, I'm not super keen on doling out drugs unless I absolutely have to.

jassy3399 March 14th, 2011 05:32 PM

Well, we got back from the vet's about half an hour ago. Gizmo is freshly neutered and came through everything just fine. He seems a bit unsettled, pacing around the house, but not overly distressed. I'm assuming it's just the stress of the day (he's never been away from home before, poor baby) and he'll settle down in a while. He's also flipping between 'I want affection' and 'leave me alone, pesky human'. although I suppose that's not really that different from normal:D Thanks for all you're advice on this matter, folks, I truly do appreciate it!:grouphug:

kathryn March 14th, 2011 05:49 PM

[QUOTE=jassy3399;993308]Well, we got back from the vet's about half an hour ago. Gizmo is freshly neutered and came through everything just fine. He seems a bit unsettled, pacing around the house, but not overly distressed. I'm assuming it's just the stress of the day (he's never been away from home before, poor baby) and he'll settle down in a while. He's also flipping between 'I want affection' and 'leave me alone, pesky human'. although I suppose that's not really that different from normal:D Thanks for all you're advice on this matter, folks, I truly do appreciate it!:grouphug:[/QUOTE]

Sounds like all went well :thumbs up Try to keep him confined, especially when you go to bed tonight. If you can lock him in the bedroom with you with a litter pan that is the best thing to do. Sometimes they seem totally fine when they first come home and then get a tad bit loopy throughout the day... I've had some fosters that have come home and crashed about the room even though they seemed fine at first :o

Oh, and only do a small amount of food at a time because their stomach will be yucky for a day or two.

If you need any help, I will be reachable for most of today and I've been a spay/neuter tech for quite a few years, so I've seen it all ;)

jassy3399 March 14th, 2011 06:10 PM

Thanks, half an hour later and he's perking up a bit, wanting to play. I'm mostly just ignoring him to avoid encouraging it while keeping an eye on him.

I was told not to offer food until breakfast tomorrow, and then only a small amount at first. I feel kind of bad about it, but I also don't want him throwing up. I'm hoping he settles down when I go to take my nap (long day, up early to drop him off, then off to get two teeth pulled for me:yuck:)
so we can all get some rest.

I'll move his litter box into the bedroom and shut the door when it's bedtime, though, that's a good idea.

14+kitties March 14th, 2011 06:11 PM

I am so happy Gizz came through his neuter!! I am sure it's a load off your mind. Sounds like he's pretty normal to me. :D I bet tomorrow or the next day you won't know anything even happened to him.
Thank YOU for being such a responsible owner and getting your kitty neutered! :grouphug:

jassy3399 March 14th, 2011 06:17 PM

[QUOTE=14+kitties;993337]I am so happy Gizz came through his neuter!! I am sure it's a load off your mind. Sounds like he's pretty normal to me. :D I bet tomorrow or the next day you won't know anything even happened to him.
Thank YOU for being such a responsible owner and getting your kitty neutered! :grouphug:[/QUOTE]

It's totally a load off my mind. It's maybe a little silly, but I had such a hard time leaving him at the vet's office, even though I know it's a routine procedure. He just looked so confused when the tech carried him out through the door into the back! I guess I'm just an overprotective mommy.

kathryn March 14th, 2011 06:36 PM

[QUOTE=jassy3399;993336]
I was told not to offer food until breakfast tomorrow, and then only a small amount at first. I feel kind of bad about it, but I also don't want him throwing up. I'm hoping he settles down when I go to take my nap (long day, up early to drop him off, then off to get two teeth pulled for me:yuck:)
so we can all get some rest.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'm not sure why a vet would say that :confused: Because first rule of post S/N is you need to get them to start eating a tiny bit at a time as soon as they get home to avoid having their blood sugar crash and them go into shock.

It's up to you though, if that's what your vet said maybe they have a reason for it? They might use different protocols.

Just glad your little man is doing already :thumbs up

14+kitties March 14th, 2011 06:41 PM

[QUOTE=jassy3399;993339]It's totally a load off my mind. It's maybe a little silly, but I had such a hard time leaving him at the vet's office, even though I know it's a routine procedure. He just looked so confused when the tech carried him out through the door into the back! I guess I'm just an overprotective mommy.[/QUOTE]

No, you are not over protective. You are a loving mommy. My Dart goes in this Sunday and I, even after as many as I have done in the last couple of years (around 50), am petrified. The last time I took six siblings in to get done I came home with five. That was not so long ago I don't remember the pain of having to bring home one that didn't make it through the surgery. :candle: It is still very painful, very hard to think of. I keep telling myself it was a fluke but....... the thought is still there. It still hurts. I will be sitting on pins and needles until I can pick him up in the afternoon and see for myself he is ok.


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