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-   -   Idiopathic Eosinophilic Meningitis and probable Vaccinosis (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=73462)

Rgeurts November 5th, 2010 12:46 PM

Idiopathic Eosinophilic Meningitis and probable Vaccinosis
 
As some of you know, we had an appt. to see a holistic vet. LP had went to Dr. Dodds seminar in ONT. a couple of weeks ago and put me in contact with Dr. Dodds (Thank you soooo much LP!! :2huggers::highfive:).

Dr. Dodds had me email her some of Nanook's test results, health and vaccine history etc. After reviewing, she said she believes he has Vaccinosis and asked that we start treatment to detox him of the vaccines. She was speaking at a seminar in Kentucky that day along with a holistic vet from Edmonton, Dr. Steve Marsden. She spoke with him regarding Nanook and he asked that I email him, so I did.

He responded saying that he thinks Nanook should be seen by his clinic, but that he himself, would not have time as he is very busy and does not see new patients. He asked that I forward Nanook's file to his clinic and schedule an appt. I was very hesitant as it was him I would have liked to see since he and Dr. Dodds know each other very well. So I was a bit disappointed. But I did as he requested and had our vet fax over all his files.

Later that evening I got an email from Dr. Marsden saying he was quite alarmed by Nanooks physical state, the harsh medications he is on and more than anything, by the most recent bloodwork and said he wanted to see Nanook himself, sooner rather than later.

I was bit confused and didn't know whether to be happy that we were actually going to get to see him, or extremely worried that he now wanted to see Nanook himself due to the test results, so I was a bit of both :laughing:

We had our first visit yesterday morning. I meant to write yesterday, but ended up at the hospital with DH and didn't get home until midnight.

Dr. Marsden believes that Nanook does have vaccinosis, but doesn't believe that is the main reason for his problems. He believes Nanook has severe digestive issues (which DH and I can attest to :eek: :yuck:) and he thinks that the vaccines aggravated the condition and fed fuel to the fire causing an immune mediated response (Eosinophilic Syndrome). He went on to explain how the body works from a holistic view and said he knew it would be a leap of faith for us to try and believe that his digestive system could cause all the problems, including the seizures, and he is right. But at this point, maybe a leap of faith is what's needed, so we plunged!

He has put Nanook on 2 different herbs and said he eventually wants to get Nanook off all the harsh medications that are slowly killing him, but said he's smart enough to know that those same medications are also keeping him alive and helping control the seizures, so he won't do it until he's sure we have his digestive system back on the right track. He said a lot of things and had another vet with him so she will be familiar and be able to help for the times he is out of town. I have always been such a skeptic about holistic treatments, but it's time to have some faith and believe that this will work.

He isn't going to detox him for the vaccines for 2 reasons. He said the vaccines were given so long ago and even though it may still be able to detox him, his body is too weak to undergo such a detox at this point.

He said with the treatment he's on now, we should notice an improvement in several areas within the next week such as consistent stools, more energy, less restlessness at night and should not see him foraging for food all the time. He said we should also notice him not wanting to eat dirt, rocks, concrete etc (he is obsessed with a patch of lawn we reseeded and tries to grab a mouthful of the soil every time we walk by it). He said if we notice all the improvements, we are on the right track. If not, he will have to rethink everything. So here's hoping!!

One thing he did say was that all the events we see that the specialist and our regular vet have stated are probably neurological events, are most likely not. Such as the swimming while he's laying on his side. He thinks that's just an invitation to play (Nanook did it while we were there). And the biting of our feet and ankles (he only does it once in awhile, but it's weird) he thinks is just him being playful as he may have a moment or 2 of "feeling good" despite all the problems. He said we've probably never seen the real Nanook due to all of the medications and health problems and that he hopes, with his help and the treatment he has planned, we will finally get to "meet" our puppy for the first time :cry: :cloud9: :lovestruck:

Sorry for the long post, but there was just so much information! And again, a HUGE thank you to luckypenny for caring enough to get this ball rolling for us :angel2:

Love4himies November 5th, 2010 01:06 PM

Wow, I hope you get some good results :pray:

So did he mention anything about changing his diet to a raw/natural diet?

breeze November 5th, 2010 01:12 PM

[B]LP[/B] is such a sweetie :grouphug:

hope that you get good results!!!! :goodvibes::goodvibes:

Dog Dancer November 5th, 2010 01:14 PM

Awesome news. I sure hope this is the miracle that Nanook needs to get himself back on track with life. I'm sure your leap of faith will be rewarded! I'm so happy to hear that you were able to see the Dr. you wanted, and now we'll be waiting for multiple positive updates. Yay yay yay, this is a happy day for all of us who have been following Nanooks story. :grouphug: Bless you for taking such good care of your baby no matter what, I'm sure it has been daunting.

Rgeurts November 5th, 2010 01:15 PM

[QUOTE=Love4himies;964484]Wow, I hope you get some good results :pray:

So did he mention anything about changing his diet to a raw/natural diet?[/QUOTE]

He did mention that we will have to change his diet, but not right now. He said a natural diet, but didn't specifically mention raw. So I'm not sure what he has planned as far as that goes. He did say it would be down the road a bit. He wants to stabilize him a bit more before any other changes are made. If the treatment is working in a week he is removing the Pancreas-V from his diet as the first step :)

Rgeurts November 5th, 2010 01:20 PM

[QUOTE=breeze;964488][B]LP[/B] is such a sweetie :grouphug:

[B][I]She is indeed :cloud9:[/I][/B]

[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Dog Dancer;964489]Awesome news. I sure hope this is the miracle that Nanook needs to get himself back on track with life. I'm sure your leap of faith will be rewarded! I'm so happy to hear that you were able to see the Dr. you wanted, and now we'll be waiting for multiple positive updates. Yay yay yay, this is a happy day for all of us who have been following Nanooks story. :grouphug: Bless you for taking such good care of your baby no matter what, I'm sure it has been daunting.[/QUOTE]

It has been lol, but he's worth it. Our doggies are our kids :)
I'm hoping to give those multiple positive updates starting this week!
Thank you so much for all the kind words :grouphug:

rainbow November 5th, 2010 01:39 PM

Wow, this is such great news. :highfive:

I am really surprised that you got a reply from Dr Dodds and an appointment with Dr Marsden so quickly though considering that they're both so busy. I sure hope that Dr Marsden's diagnosis puts Nanook on the road to recovery. :pray: :fingerscr :goodvibes:

hazelrunpack November 5th, 2010 03:03 PM

Sending :goodvibes: that Nanook responds well!!!!! Keeping all :fingerscr...not to mention crossed :pawprint:s...that you see improvements soon!!!!

Magicwildwolf69 November 5th, 2010 03:35 PM

:goodvibes::goodvibes: That you see improvements in a week and he feels better!

luckypenny November 5th, 2010 04:30 PM

[QUOTE=Rgeurts;964482]One thing he did say was that all the events we see that the specialist and our regular vet have stated are probably neurological events, are most likely not. Such as the swimming while he's laying on his side. He thinks that's just an invitation to play (Nanook did it while we were there). And the biting of our feet and ankles (he only does it once in awhile, but it's weird) he thinks is just him being playful as he may have a moment or 2 of "feeling good" despite all the problems. He said we've probably never seen the real Nanook due to all of the medications and health problems and that he hopes, with his help and the treatment he has planned, we will finally get to "meet" our puppy for the first time :cry: :cloud9: :lovestruck:[/QUOTE]

My only words of advice here for when Nanook is feeling much better is, "watch out!!!" :crazy:. :laughing: Nothing like a playful adolescent pup in the house :D :cloud9:.

I wish you all nothing but the best outcome possible :goodvibes: :grouphug:.

[QUOTE=rainbow;964503]I am really surprised that you got a reply from Dr Dodds... [/QUOTE]

She's very accessible, even when she's traveling for seminars or for out-of-country research projects. She explained that she reviews test results personally every evening and tries to get back to all her emails asap. My greatest impression is she's not just an incredible vet/researcher, she's a warm, caring person.

14+kitties November 5th, 2010 04:54 PM

You have my continued support and prayers for Nooky. I love him like he was one of mine. :cloud9: Sending tons of :goodvibes::pray: for you, your hubby and your babies. :grouphug:

Chris21711 November 5th, 2010 06:12 PM

This sounds so promising Rguerts....I'm praying hard that this is the solution and Nanook can be the pup he so deserves.

mastifflover November 5th, 2010 09:56 PM

Oh yeah I am so glad to hear some real positive news for Nanook. I think getting Nanook off all the drugs will be great especially if everything could be controlled by herbs and diet. Agreed you and your hubby are Nanooks angels.
Great news keep us updated and heres to solid poop:thumbs up

Rgeurts November 5th, 2010 11:23 PM

Thanks all! And ya, most of the time, he doesn't know he's sick :)
He sleeps a lot, and when he plays he's very weak and clumsy, but it doesn't stop him!

He had SUCH a wonderful day today!! He was up for a good 60 % of the day, normally he's up and moving around at feeding time and the occasional energy burst, but today was great! He was barking and howling a lot, biting me, pouncing on Thorin... he was just such a puppy :D
It really made my day. I think this is the most active he's been for a prolonged period since we've had him :D

mastifflover November 6th, 2010 07:48 AM

I feel like he may have a new lease on life. Nothing personal but I hope he keeps biting your ankles and pouncing on Thorin this is a real good sign.

hazelrunpack November 6th, 2010 02:12 PM

Don't ya love it when they have a good day? :highfive: Here's to many more of those to come! :goodvibes:

luckypenny November 6th, 2010 05:31 PM

How is Nanook today, Rgeurts?

Rgeurts November 7th, 2010 11:01 AM

Nanook was a bit sluggish again yesterday. Just seemed very tired and maybe had a sick tummy. The night before he pooped something ugly again :confused:
It looked like a piece of a soft frisbee (the kind with the rigid plastic boning covered in fabric, he pooped about a quarter of one). I have NO idea where he would have gotten it. We don't have anything like that and the daycare he's at now doesn't use toys at all. The only thing I can think of is the old daycare, but he hasn't been there in almost a month now :shrug:
I think we're going to have to do as our vet said a couple of weeks ago and put him on a low calorie food then increase the amount he gets so he feels fuller.

But this morning he is SO perky and happy! I was standing at the top of the stairs, hubby was at the bottom with him and he was just howling at me and trying to get over the baby gate. I came down and he just attacked me lol. He was howling, pawing at me, biting my feet and actually jumped on me (he's never done that before) lol. So I think today will be a good day. We're going to take him and Thorin out somewhere where they can just run and play for awhile :cloud9:

Rgeurts November 7th, 2010 12:12 PM

I had a great conversation with lp and she made a suggestion which I thought was great! Below are the holistic meds that Nanook is taking along with the links to the other threads regarding his condition and history. I was telling lp that I have spent hours researching the internet and other dog/pet forums trying to find even 1 person who has been in a similar situation with their dog, but with no luck. The only thing that comes up are my own posts here on pets. Hopefully if someone else has a dog with similar symptoms, this will help them (and their vet as not many vets are very familiar with his condition either) to possibly understand what is going on and find a treatment. It's still too soon to tell if the holistic treatment will work, but one thing I do know is that something has at least given him more energy to play and be a crazy, happy boy for the last few days :)

He's currently taking San Ren Tang-3 teaspoons twice daily and Calcarea Carbonica-5 pills once a day for 3 days, then 4 once a day for 3 days then 3 once a day until the vet tells us differently.

Below are the links to posts starting with the oldest (that are related to his condition, symptoms & treatments). He is also still on a traditional western treatment for Idiopathic Eosinophilic Meningitis which includes, at this point, 20mg Prednisone (10mg 2x daily), 120mg daily Phenobarbital (60mg 2x daily) and Azathioprine 75mg once every other day. He also takes, daily, Vi-Sorbits, Aller G-3 Omega 3 capsule, Fortiflora and then 1/2 tsp Pancreas-V with every meal (3x daily).

[url]http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=70716[/url]


[url]http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=70850[/url]


[url]http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=70907[/url]


[url]http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=71185[/url]


[url]http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=71933[/url]


[url]http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=72031[/url]


[url]http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=71990[/url]


[url]http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=72210[/url]


[url]http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=72650[/url]


[url]http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=72750[/url]


[url]http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=72865[/url]


[url]http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=73101[/url]

We have managed to keep him with us for 6 months now with the current treatment. We're praying that the holistic treatment will allow for him to be eventually taken off the Prednisone, Phenobarbital and Azathioprine so his organs can heal and escape further damage :)

We still have no guarantees, of course, but whatever happens, at least we have gotten to love him (and laugh at him) for the time that we have.
He has energized Thorin, who now loves him being around as well! We never thought Thorin would actually "like" him. Our best hope was that he would "tolerate" him. So we are thankful for everything! :cloud9::lovestruck:

Anything new that happens I will put in this thread to keep it updated and not create any new ones.

rainbow November 8th, 2010 10:54 PM

Great idea to amalgamate all your posts regarding Nanook. :thumbs up

I have another suggestion though .....you should pm Marko and ask him to change the title of this thread to something that relates to Nanook's condition so it will show up when people do a search.

Did you ever find out where Nanook got the frisbee from? I sure hope the poor guy is doing okay now. :fingerscr :goodvibes:

Rgeurts November 9th, 2010 10:46 AM

[QUOTE=rainbow;965233]Great idea to amalgamate all your posts regarding Nanook. :thumbs up

I have another suggestion though .....you should pm Marko and ask him to change the title of this thread to something that relates to Nanook's condition so it will show up when people do a search.

[B][I]Great idea! I'll do that today, thanks :)[/I][/B]

Did you ever find out where Nanook got the frisbee from? I sure hope the poor guy is doing okay now. :fingerscr :goodvibes:[/QUOTE]

[B][I]Nope. The only place possible could have been the old daycare :rolleyes:
We know they were neglecting him (almost to the point of abuse). I'll be speaking with the owner just so she is aware. Otherwise, he seems to be doing pretty good :fingerscr:pray:
[/I][/B]

Rgeurts November 11th, 2010 09:11 AM

Morning all! We have had a few pretty good days! Nanook seems to be feeling MUCH better. He still lounges around a lot, but doesn't sleep as much. He's had a lot less gas than usual and when I picked him up from daycare on Tuesday, the girls said he is doing wonderfully! :D
The one said they normally have to poke him to make sure he's still alive, but the last few days he's been gurgling (it's a weird little howl he does), very playful and just seems to be feeling so much better! So... obviously the herbs are doing something for him. Even if they don't "cure" him, they're allowing him to be happy and feeling good :lovestruck::cloud9:

chico2 November 11th, 2010 09:25 AM

That's great to read Robin,you all need some relief and hopefully more and more good days:pray::fingerscr:goodvibes::grouphug:

Sylvie November 11th, 2010 09:30 AM

Great news. :thumbs up

I am so happy for all of you. What would be do without LP.

Rgeurts November 11th, 2010 10:25 AM

[QUOTE=chico2;965756]That's great to read Robin,you all need some relief and hopefully more and more good days:pray::fingerscr:goodvibes::grouphug:[/QUOTE]

[B][I]We are very happy with the results so far. He plays with hubby and I, he plays with Thorin, he plays with MIL... it's just wonderful :cloud9:[/I][/B]


[QUOTE=Sylvie;965757]Great news. :thumbs up

I am so happy for all of you. What would be do without LP.[/QUOTE]

[B][I]We are very thankful for LP, and everyone here. The support has been wonderful and you are all beautiful souls :lovestruck:[/I][/B]

Chris21711 November 11th, 2010 11:11 AM

Fantastic news :thumbs up

Rgeurts November 11th, 2010 11:37 PM

Hey guys, are any of you familiar with chondrodysplasia? Since monster has been so perky and playful the last few days, we've noticed something a little odd. We have always thought he was just clumsy from all the illness and meds, but we've noticed some deformities in his front quarters. I'm now thinking that what may be causing him to fall (he falls over a lot onto his front left shoulder with his bum in the air and then has a hard time getting back up). His front ankle joints are extremely large and lumpy looking, and tonight I noticed his left front paw is a good inch longer than the right, almost has a club look to it. He also is a few inches shorter than Thorin, but just as long and weighs 5 pounds more :shrug:

I will, of course, be asking the vet to take a look on Monday. But I was wondering if anyone has encountered this? I read one sight that said it seemed to only affect Malamutes, but then I was looking at an old post here of someone with a GSD that possibly had it.

Robyn

hazelrunpack November 12th, 2010 11:00 AM

It could still be just individual differences, illness and meds, Robyn, but worth looking into. In my limited experience, even if a condition is said to only affect one breed, a dog is a dog is a dog, at least genetically, and any canine malady can strike any individual. That being said, though, he's on some pretty powerful meds that may well be affecting his development and appearance (the 'pred head' you mentioned, for instance).

:fingerscr the vet can set your mind at ease. Holy catz, if it's not one thing to worry about, it's another, eh? :grouphug: Good luck on Monday! :goodvibes:

Rgeurts November 12th, 2010 12:16 PM

[QUOTE=hazelrunpack;965939]It could still be just individual differences, illness and meds, Robyn, but worth looking into. In my limited experience, even if a condition is said to only affect one breed, a dog is a dog is a dog, at least genetically, and any canine malady can strike any individual. That being said, though, he's on some pretty powerful meds that may well be affecting his development and appearance (the 'pred head' you mentioned, for instance).

:fingerscr the vet can set your mind at ease. Holy catz, if it's not one thing to worry about, it's another, eh? :grouphug: Good luck on Monday! :goodvibes:[/QUOTE]

I think I'm just so paranoid now lol. I'm not really worried too much about it though. Hubby and I don't care as long as he isn't so bad it prevents him from having some fun and doing his "business". If he does have it, it's very mild from what I have read and will affect appearance more than anything (except for a bit of clumsiness), which is fine. He's going to be our beautiful little guy regardless. But you are probably right. He is on some heavy meds, and we do know the pred has caused muscle loss.

Thank you Hazel :)

chico2 November 12th, 2010 04:08 PM

I am not surprised you feel you are paranoid,I would be too..
Especially with little Nanook,it seems to be one thing after the other,he is so sweet and I can only :pray:he'll be alright in the end


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