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-   -   Hydrolyzed Protein Cat Food? (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=73246)

Loki Love October 23rd, 2010 12:05 PM

Hydrolyzed Protein Cat Food?
 
We've just dropped our 2 yr old cat at the vet. He's been lethargic and vomitting over the last day or so, and the final straw was watching him strain to use the litter box.

He's crazy constipated. He is staying at the clinic overnight, possibly until Monday as they try to work the poop out. Do I feel like a horrible cat owner right now? Yes.

He went through a period in the spring of vomitting as well, and we had changed his food source to Natural Balance Duck and Pea (both dry and wet formula, along with other canned formulas that didn't contain chicken). It worked well until a month or so ago - the vomitting began again, so we switched to EVO Salmon and Herring formula. Things have been fine until he started vomitting, etc again.

That all said - the vet is recommending a hydrolyzed protein type of food for my Mr Miyagi. It's the first I've heard of this. Has anyone ever had to use this for your own cats? Are the ingredients going to be as horrible as I fear (I'm such a strong believer in grain-free, especially for cats). She is also recommending just dry food (it's easier to limit the protein or something?). Again, and I told her - I much prefer a diet that does include canned food. When we pick him up, we'll be discussing food. I want to be prepared so any help would be appreciated.

sugarcatmom October 23rd, 2010 12:30 PM

[QUOTE=Loki Love;961135]
He's crazy constipated. He is staying at the clinic overnight, possibly until Monday as they try to work the poop out. [/quote]

Sorry to hear that. What are they doing at the clinic to help him pass the stool?

[QUOTE=Loki Love;961135]
That all said - the vet is recommending a hydrolyzed protein type of food for my Mr Miyagi. [/quote]
:wall: Of course she is. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Loki Love;961135]Are the ingredients going to be as horrible as I fear [/quote]

Yes. Here are the ingredients in Hill's Z/D:[INDENT]Brewers Rice, Hydrolyzed Chicken Liver, Hydrolyzed Chicken, Soybean Oil (preserved with BHA, propyl gallate and citric acid), Powdered Cellulose,
[/INDENT]
[QUOTE=Loki Love;961135]She is also recommending just dry food (it's easier to limit the protein or something?). [/quote]
:wall::wall::wall::wall: ???????? Seriously?????? That's ridiculous.
The number one cause of constipation in cats IS DRY FOOD!!!!! I personally wouldn't discuss diet with her at all if this is what her recommendation is.

Here's my advice, for what it's worth. Ditch ALL kibble. Doesn't matter if it's grain-free or not, it's still dry. Ideally, try a raw diet without too much bone and minimal plant content, but if that's not possible, there are some nice simple novel protein canned foods available, like Innova Evo 95% venison or duck. Nature's Variety also makes so excellent ones like Instinct Rabbit or Lamb. Add an extra tablespoon or 2 of warm water to Mr Miyagi's meals.

Some cats develop issues with a protein source after repeat and continuous exposure, so perhaps you need to rotate between a few different varieties to prevent that from happening. I would also stay away from fish, which tends to be high on the allergenic list.

You can also add some supplements to Mr. Miyagi's diet, like slippery elm bark, probiotics or digestive enzymes. Not all at once, but see if one of those helps.

Here is more info for you on constipation in cats:
[url]http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=constipatedcats[/url]

Loki Love October 23rd, 2010 02:03 PM

They are going to give him a couple of enemas to help with the stool - they may also need to put him under if they need to manually go in there and get it out. In any case, it doesn't sound pleasant for my kitty :/

My biggest question is - what's so special about hydrolyzed protein. Is there going to be a benefit to this kind of food (my understanding is its specially treated to be more easily digested?) vs say a limited protein diet (like Natural Balance LID, Instinct Variety, ect).

I, too, take pause in the thought of only feeding dry food. Logically, one would think canned food is going to have an easier time passing through the system (don't have to be a vet for that one!)

[QUOTE]Some cats develop issues with a protein source after repeat and continuous exposure, so perhaps you need to rotate between a few different varieties to prevent that from happening. I would also stay away from fish, which tends to be high on the allergenic list.[/QUOTE]

This is 100% opposite of what the vet told us. She said we would have to be on this 'hydrolyzed protein' diet for at least 6 months, ideally forever. We could never stray from it, etc. I'm so confused.:confused:

The only thing that comes to mind actually is the fact we did recently switch to a fish based dry food - maybe this is what is causing the upheaval? We figured his problems were chicken based, but maybe fish isn't so great either now?

If the Natural Balance Duck and Pea canned food worked - would you recommend sticking with just that for a long period of time? He doesn't seem to tolerate chicken either :/

I'm not opposed to raw - it's just not the ideal choice for us right now.

rainbow October 23rd, 2010 02:55 PM

Loki Love, sorry to hear about your kitty. :grouphug:

I agree with sugarcatmom and not discuss Mr Miyagi's diet with your vet .....just tell her you're working with a feline nutritionist and not interested in any food made by Hills.

Here is what the dogfood analysis site says about the z/d dog food ....

[url]http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1078&cat=7[/url]

Two other members here have this same problem with their cats (Chris21711 and quincymycat) and I'm sure they will post what has helped them once they log on.

Good luck. :fingerscr :goodvibes:

hazelrunpack October 23rd, 2010 04:02 PM

We had a dog with inflammatory bowel disease that needed hydrolized protein food--essentially his IBD meant that he was allergic to protein. When you hydrolize protein, it breaks it into small pieces that the body doesn't recognize as protein.

However, the IBD gave Evan diarrhea...it sure didn't constipate him! Don't know how different it might be in cats, but I can't know of any other reason to feed hydrolized protein except for IBD :shrug:

I hope your kitty feels better soon, Loki Love! :goodvibes:

Loki Love October 23rd, 2010 04:11 PM

[QUOTE=hazelrunpack;961172]However, the IBD gave Evan diarrhea...it sure didn't constipate him! Don't know how different it might be in cats, but I can't know of any other reason to feed hydrolized protein except for IBD :shrug:[/QUOTE]

Unless they do a bioposy then we can't diagnose for sure it's IBD, but the vet sure feels the signs are pointing in that direction (given this is the second time this year he's having such issues).

Am I to assume that I really am better off using a hydrolized protein in this case and that may be the thing that works for him? As much as I have my beliefs, etc - at the end of the day, I want what is going to work for the kitty so he doesn't have to do another overnighter at the vet and feel such discomfort :(

I appreciate the well wishes - it's so hard having a sick pet.

Loki Love October 23rd, 2010 04:18 PM

[QUOTE=rainbow;961149]Loki Love, sorry to hear about your kitty. :grouphug:

I agree with sugarcatmom and not discuss Mr Miyagi's diet with your vet .....just tell her you're working with a feline nutritionist and not interested in any food made by Hills.

Here is what the dogfood analysis site says about the z/d dog food ....

[url]http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1078&cat=7[/url]

Two other members here have this same problem with their cats (Chris21711 and quincymycat) and I'm sure they will post what has helped them once they log on.

Good luck. :fingerscr :goodvibes:[/QUOTE]

I agree - the food is going to be garbage. I'm just worried that if I don't follow the vet's advice, what happens if I'm putting Mr Miyagi more at risk? What if he does actually need this specially zapped protein food as compared to just a limited protein?

He was on Natural Balance LID Duck and Green Pea formula - and then he started vomiting on that hard food. I didn't clue in then, and simply switched the hard food to a fish based food (while keeping on with the regular canned food - NB Duck and Green Pea, EVO beef, Wellness Core fish something or other). He had been doing well (or so I thought).

It's not that I don't care about what I feed my cat - I just want the best chance of success - whether that's a special hydrolyzed protein vet food that is also filled with garbage.. or.. all wet food with limited protein sources.

I want to be ready for this discussion with the vet tomorrow.

hazelrunpack October 23rd, 2010 04:19 PM

I'm not sure what the signs of IBD in cats are, but the symptoms you've mentioned so far don't sound like what we saw in Evan. We saw bloody diarrhea, weight loss, and eventually a tarry stool in Evan. But again, I have no experience with cats. We used prednisolone in Evan to control the inflammation and switched him to the new diet, then weaned him off the steroids. Eventually, we were able to control the IBD with diet alone. We used a mix of Purina HA and Hills Z/D--it looked like really awful ingredients to me, but the hydrolized protein diet worked.

Have you considered taking your cat to a veterinary internist? We were referred to one at a local veterinary teaching hospital and they diagnosed the IBD and helped us tailor the treatment....

Loki Love October 23rd, 2010 04:40 PM

[QUOTE=hazelrunpack;961181]I'm not sure what the signs of IBD in cats are, but the symptoms you've mentioned so far don't sound like what we saw in Evan. We saw bloody diarrhea, weight loss, and eventually a tarry stool in Evan. But again, I have no experience with cats. We used prednisolone in Evan to control the inflammation and switched him to the new diet, then weaned him off the steroids. Eventually, we were able to control the IBD with diet alone. We used a mix of Purina HA and Hills Z/D--it looked like really awful ingredients to me, but the hydrolized protein diet worked.

Have you considered taking your cat to a veterinary internist? We were referred to one at a local veterinary teaching hospital and they diagnosed the IBD and helped us tailor the treatment....[/QUOTE]

You're right - I'm doing more reading on IBD.. and yeah, it seems diarrhea is one of the main symptoms :confused: I don't know what to think now.

I don't want to be one of those people who thinks they know more than a vet - because I clearly don't, but I also have to trust my gut and question things when they don't seem to fit.

The good news is - the vet called and all bloodwork came back perfectly fine, he's absolutely healthy except for the constipation. They've given him 2 enemas and he's already started to pass some of the stuff, so they are hopeful that by tomorrow he will have emptied himself out, or may just need a 3rd to finish up the job (and avoid having to put him under for the manual dig out!)

luckypenny October 23rd, 2010 04:51 PM

Loki Love, have you tried feeding wet food only, no dry, for any length of time?

Loki Love October 23rd, 2010 05:01 PM

[QUOTE=luckypenny;961188]Loki Love, have you tried feeding wet food only, no dry, for any length of time?[/QUOTE]

We haven't actually. We considered it briefly when Mr Miyagi had a vomiting episode a month or so back. He suddenly wasn't tolerating the NB LID Duck and Green Pea hard food that he had been on since April - but he was doing fine with the canned version. Sadly, he's one of those cats that really loves his dry food - but I'm thinking at this point, it's not worth it and we're going to eliminate the dry food completely.

Love4himies October 23rd, 2010 06:07 PM

It has been my experience that Sugarcatmom (and Growler) has more knowledge about cat nutrition than any vet I have had over the years. Any vet that recommends a dry food for a constipated cat, or one in kidney failure does not know a whole heck of a lot about cats :frustrated:. Cats get their food from moisture (as all animals actually). They don't have the luxury of cups. I just don't understand why vets don't get that :yell: :shrug:

Think about yourself eating crackers all day, then licking up water for your moisture, not hard to believe that you won't be very hydrated :shrug:.

It is a fact that vets don't get a whole lot of training on nutrition and what they do get is from cat food manufacturers.

Your cat's issue could actually be with the nervous system which is not moving the bowels properly, if that's the case, then a low residue food is would be the best diet and that would be a raw diet with minimal bone in it. I find with my cats, even a quality canned doesn't produce as small poops as raw does.

Love4himies October 23rd, 2010 07:06 PM

I have been pondering the hydrolyzed cat food, isn't that for cats who have an intolerance to meat proteins? Wouldn't allergies or intolerances result in eosinophilic granuloma complex (ulcers) or at least diarrhea for intolerances :shrug:?

You know, I would certainly do some research before going back to the vet.

Loki Love October 23rd, 2010 07:10 PM

[QUOTE=Love4himies;961228]I have been pondering the hydrolyzed cat food, isn't that for cats who have an intolerance to meat proteins? Wouldn't allergies or intolerances result in eosinophilic granuloma complex (ulcers) or at least diarrhea for intolerances :shrug:?

You know, I would certainly do some research before going back to the vet.[/QUOTE]

I agree - it doesn't seem to be making sense :/ Unfortunately, I have to go back to the vet tomorrow because they have my cat!

I'm really at a loss on what course of action to take - if I was confused and unsure before, it's doubled now.:wall:

Love4himies October 23rd, 2010 07:13 PM

[QUOTE=Loki Love;961232]I agree - it doesn't seem to be making sense :/ Unfortunately, I have to go back to the vet tomorrow because they have my cat!

I'm really at a loss on what course of action to take - if I was confused and unsure before, it's doubled now.:wall:[/QUOTE]

It doesn't make sense to me either.

There was a member who has a chronically constipated cat, but I can't remember who :frustrated:. I think hers has the problem with the nervous system not moving the bowels often enough.

rainbow October 23rd, 2010 07:19 PM

[QUOTE=Loki Love;961232]I agree - it doesn't seem to be making sense :/ Unfortunately, I have to go back to the vet tomorrow because they have my cat!

I'm really at a loss on what course of action to take - if I was confused and unsure before, it's doubled now.:wall:[/QUOTE]

I would just pick him up and pay the bill and tell them you will come back if you want their cat food.


[QUOTE=Love4himies;961234]It doesn't make sense to me either.

There was a member who has a chronically constipated cat, but I can't remember who :frustrated:. I think hers has the problem with the nervous system not moving the bowels often enough.[/QUOTE]

That would be either [B]Chris[/B] or [B]qmc[/B] or it may be both that the reason is due to the nervous system. I know they will answer here as soon as they log on. :thumbs up

Loki Love October 23rd, 2010 07:28 PM

[QUOTE=rainbow;961238]I would just pick him up and pay the bill and tell them you will come back if you want their cat food.[/QUOTE]

But what do I feed him then? Definitely only canned food - no problem with that, but should I stick to limited protein food, like duck, rabbit, venison, etc?

What about giving vaseline regularly? Will that help keep the constipation at bay? The article suggest earlier in this thread also mentions Miralax - should I be using this regularly in his food?

I don't want to put him through this again (nor my pocketbook) - I can only imagine how painful it was for my poor Mr Miyagi having to deal with not only one enema, but two .. and a possible third tomorrow, let alone being so constipated to begin with :(

Love4himies October 23rd, 2010 07:38 PM

Limited protein is for allergies. I really don't think you have an allergy issue :shrug:. I think you need to stick to a low residue cat food and that means one that doesn't have junk in it that cats can't digest.

Not sure about vaseline :shrug:, what about olive oil :shrug:, I think that is OK for kitties. I would also try pumpkin.

Here is an article, note the importance of water in the diet:
[url]http://pets1st.ca/articles/00046constipationandyourcat.asp[/url]

Loki Love October 23rd, 2010 07:47 PM

[QUOTE=Love4himies;961243]Limited protein is for allergies. I really don't think you have an allergy issue :shrug:. I think you need to stick to a low residue cat food and that means one that doesn't have junk in it that cats can't digest.

Not sure about vaseline :shrug:, what about olive oil :shrug:, I think that is OK for kitties. I would also try pumpkin.

Here is an article, note the importance of water in the diet:
[url]http://pets1st.ca/articles/00046constipationandyourcat.asp[/url][/QUOTE]

So anything from Wellness Core, Orijen, TOTW, etc should be fine to feed him, regardless of the protein source?

Mr Miyagi has always been pretty good with drinking water (plus, we normally add some warm water to their servings of canned food).

I really appreciate all the advice and help.

Love4himies October 23rd, 2010 07:59 PM

Geesh, sometimes I don't know where my brain is :wall:.

Rose had a horrible constipation problem a few months ago. My vet gave me some Lactulose for her and it worked wonderfully I started her slowly on it. It is an orange liquid that I mixed with her food and she had no problem eating her food with it mixed in.


Definitely add water to the canned food :thumbs up. I do that all the time.

Loki Love October 23rd, 2010 08:05 PM

[QUOTE=Love4himies;961245]Geesh, sometimes I don't know where my brain is :wall:.

Rose had a horrible constipation problem a few months ago. My vet gave me some Lactulose for her and it worked wonderfully I started her slowly on it. It is an orange liquid that I mixed with her food and she had no problem eating her food with it mixed in.


Definitely add water to the canned food :thumbs up. I do that all the time.[/QUOTE]

How long did you add the Lactulose to her food for? I just wonder if I'm going to have to give him something continually given this is the second time we're dealing with this.

luckypenny October 23rd, 2010 08:13 PM

I think before adding anything to his diet, you should stick to canned only and see if that doesn't correct the problem entirely.

[QUOTE=Loki Love;961244]So anything from Wellness Core, Orijen, TOTW, etc should be fine to feed him, regardless of the protein source? [/QUOTE]

All these are dry foods which would exacerbate your cat's constipation issues. Sugarcatmom mentioned some excellent brands in her post. If you live near Westmount, Naturalanimal & Pawtisserie carries the widest selection of quality canned I've seen. You can call ahead of time to see when Diana, the owner, will be there to help guide you in your choices.

Cat ladies, can you provide Loki Love with a list of recommended brands?

Loki Love October 23rd, 2010 08:17 PM

[QUOTE=luckypenny;961247]I think before adding anything to his diet, you should stick to canned only and see if that doesn't correct the problem entirely.



All these are dry foods which would exacerbate your cat's constipation issues. Sugarcatmom mentioned some excellent brands in her post. If you live near Westmount, Naturalanimal & Pawtisserie carries the widest selection of quality canned I've seen. You can call ahead of time to see when Diana, the owner, will be there to help guide you in your choices.

Cat ladies, can you provide Loki Love with a list of recommended brands?[/QUOTE]

I didn't realize Orijen didn't make any kind of canned food; however, Wellness CORE and Taste of the Wild do have canned food for cats. I think you're right about switching completely to canned food and taking it from there - one step at a time.

sugarcatmom October 23rd, 2010 08:30 PM

[QUOTE=Loki Love;961244]So anything from Wellness Core, Orijen, TOTW, etc should be fine to feed him, regardless of the protein source? [/quote]

Not if they're dry foods, and Orijen only comes in dry (and TOTW only has one canned food that contains fish).

I totally understand how confusing this is, and especially the doubt you must feel about going against your vet's advice. You'd think they would have the proper training to address issues like this, but they don't. Most are only regurgitating what the Hill's/Medi-cal/Purina propaganda pamphlets have "taught" them.

What cat's need (ALL cats) is species-appropriate food, not a bag of moisture-depleted brewer's rice and "scientifically formulated" protein sources.

Khari is another member here who has suffered with a constipated cat. A low-residue raw diet was what really helped her kitty. She hasn't posted in a while, but perhaps if you pm'd her she'd see your post.

Oh, and it's totally fine to leave wet food out for free-feeding, if that's one of your concerns.

Let us know what the vet says.

luckypenny October 23rd, 2010 08:30 PM

[QUOTE=Loki Love;961249]Wellness CORE and Taste of the Wild do have canned food for cats. [/QUOTE]

Oops, sorry, I wasn't aware of that :o. Just make sure to read the ingredient labels carefully. You might find this page helpful [url]http://catinfo.org/?link=cannedfoods[/url]

Loki Love October 23rd, 2010 08:36 PM

Thank you so much everyone - I will let you know how Mr Miyagi is doing once we hear back from the vet again tomorrow morning. I'll have a food discussion with the vet when we pick him up and go from there.

Again, my thanks for all the advice and helpful articles.

growler~GateKeeper October 24th, 2010 04:29 AM

[QUOTE=Loki Love;961240]What about giving vaseline regularly? Will that help keep the constipation at bay? The article suggest earlier in this thread also mentions Miralax - should I be using this regularly in his food?[/QUOTE]

Absolutely NO! to the vaseline not only does it contain ingredients made from petroleum (a naturally occurring, toxic, flammable liquid consisting of a complex mixture of hydrocarbons; mostly associated with crude oil) it also has mineral oil in addition to numerous other chemical preservatives [url]http://www.vaseline.com/Template2.aspx?Path=Consumer/Glossary/Home[/url]

1/4 - 1/2 tsp of Butter or the same amount of butternut squash or pure pumpkin (not the pie filling) is a much better alternative.

If you are aiming for single protein grain free canned foods:

Innova Evo has [URL="http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?id=1664"]95% Beef[/URL], [URL="http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?id=1662"]95% Chicken & Turkey[/URL], [URL="http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?id=1663"]95% Duck[/URL], [URL="http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?id=1665"]95% Venison[/URL]

Nature's Variety Instinct has [URL="http://www.naturesvariety.com/Instinct/cat/can/chicken"]Chicken w/Turkey[/URL], [URL="http://www.naturesvariety.com/Instinct/cat/can/beef"]Beef[/URL], [URL="http://www.naturesvariety.com/Instinct/cat/can/lamb"]Lamb[/URL], [URL="http://www.naturesvariety.com/Instinct/cat/can/duck"]Duck[/URL], [URL="http://www.naturesvariety.com/Instinct/cat/can/rabbit"]Rabbit[/URL], [URL="http://www.naturesvariety.com/Instinct/cat/can/venison"]Venison[/URL]

Other grainfree foods
Wellness [URL="http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/product-details.aspx?pet=cat&pid=7"]Turkey[/URL], [URL="http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/product-details.aspx?pet=cat&pid=2"]Chicken[/URL], [URL="http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/product-details.aspx?pet=cat&pid=4"]Beef & Chicken[/URL], [URL="http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/product-details.aspx?pet=cat&pid=16"]Wellness Core Chicken, Turkey & Chicken Liver[/URL]

Taste of the Wild has more than 5 different protein sources & not recommended in a situation with possible protein issues.

A great site regarding constipation [url]http://www.harpsie.com/constipation.htm[/url]

Let us know how Mr Miyagi did after his night at the vet :goodvibes:

Love4himies October 24th, 2010 05:49 AM

[QUOTE=sugarcatmom;961252]
Khari is another member here who has suffered with a constipated cat. A low-residue raw diet was what really helped her kitty. She hasn't posted in a while, but perhaps if you pm'd her she'd see your post.

[/QUOTE]

That is who I was thinking of.

Loki Love October 24th, 2010 09:07 AM

We heard from the clinic this morning. Mr Miyagi has passed some more poop, but not all. They are considering a 3rd enema this afternoon and there's a high probability he will be staying one more night at the clinic. :(

Chris21711 October 24th, 2010 11:46 AM

Herbie has suffered from constipation issues for 5 - 6 years now, eventually resulting in Megacolon.......I mix his food to a soup consistency, normally he doesn't eat all in one sitting but does lap up the fluid, when he returns to continue eating I mix more water with it......He also gets 3ml of Lactulose twice a day. I DO NOT mix it with his food but give it with a syringe.

Due to his Megacolon he also takes 5ml Cisipride twice a day.

Less than a year ago I changed Vet's...this Vet has an instrument akin to forceps used in child birthing....As the stool works it's way down through the colon, when it reaches a point where he can remove it with the forceps, he does, speeding the process along.

Note: I added more water to his food gradually....in the beginning if it was too soupy he would eat a little and walk away.


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