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-   -   Working vs. Show (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=71926)

cell August 10th, 2010 10:19 AM

Working vs. Show
 
Or THEN vs NOW (suggested by Frenchy)

Just thought it would be a interesting thread to post photo comparison of Working vs. Show or Then vs. Now animals. For those not familiar with the breed point our a few characteristics that vary between the 2 lines.

Can be any type of animal, dogs, cats (I guess thats show vs pet quality maybe), horses etc.

Starting with the Dachshund.


[img]http://www.mordanna.com/dachshund/akc_long.jpg[/img] AKC Longhaired

[img]http://www.mordanna.com/dachshund/working_long.jpg[/img] Working Longhaired

[img]http://www.mordanna.com/dachshund/akc_smooth.jpg[/img] AKC Smooth

[img]http://www.mordanna.com/dachshund/working_smooth.jpg[/img] Working Smooth

[img]http://www.mordanna.com/dachshund/akc_wire.jpg[/img] AKC Wirehaired

[img]http://www.mordanna.com/dachshund/working_wire.jpg[/img] Working Wirehaired

[img]http://www.antiquemapsandprints.com/p-9012.jpg[/img]

Working dachshunds are not the ponderous heavy-bodied standard dachshunds most people are familiar with. To differentiate working dachshunds from their heavy-chested pet- and show-dog cousins, the German word "Teckel" is generally used. (Unless your in Quebec, were the French say Teckel, albeit incorrectly)

Frenchy August 10th, 2010 10:23 AM

awww interesting thread cell !

can we put pictures of breeds , what they looked like , let's say , in the 1960's versus what they look like now ?

cell August 10th, 2010 10:29 AM

Sure, then vs now is also a great idea!

Frenchy August 10th, 2010 10:40 AM

1 Attachment(s)
[QUOTE=cell;943379]Sure, then vs now is also a great idea![/QUOTE]

I'm trying to find old pictures of breeds but it's hard ... will try again later. But for now , look at what has become of our chi's :(

[img]http://bestsmileys.com/lol/4.gif[/img]

Frenchy August 10th, 2010 10:40 AM

just kidding :p will come up with better pictures later , if I can find them. :goodvibes:

Floppy Dog August 10th, 2010 11:55 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Here's Cocker Spaniels:

Working:

[ATTACH]68254[/ATTACH]

Show:

[ATTACH]68255[/ATTACH]

Also, see my album for Lady's pictures.

Love4himies August 10th, 2010 11:59 AM

[QUOTE=Floppy Dog;943410]Here's Cocker Spaniels:

Working:

[ATTACH]68254[/ATTACH]

Show:

[ATTACH]68255[/ATTACH]

Also, see my album for Lady's pictures.[/QUOTE]

:eek: Holy smokes what a difference.

bendyfoot August 10th, 2010 01:38 PM

Most of those AKC dacshunds are fat. I hate seeing overweight dogs in show rings, even worse when they win. I want to see slim, toned, athletic animals...probably why I'm more attracted to working dogs anyways.

Floppy Dog August 10th, 2010 02:48 PM

If I had known 2 years ago what I know now about Cocker Spaniels, I would have gone looking for one bred from hunting lines, not AKC conformity. However, now we have Lady and we wouldn't trade her for the world, she's part of the family and the cat would be completely miffed if "his" dog disappeared. But we are seriously considering, if we purchase a house in the town we're living in, to get another CS from hunting lines so that G-Man has a working dog to take on his more extreme outdoor adventures.

Loki Love August 10th, 2010 03:00 PM

The sad thing is that there should theoretically be no difference between working and showing dogs. A breed standard is just that - the standard.

Why do they differ so much? Is it as someone mentioned in another thread - the judges fault for not judging according to the standard? Is it the parent group fault for not holding its members and judges to the standard or even having changed the standard over the years?

Definitely an interesting topic.

Frenchy August 10th, 2010 03:09 PM

2 Attachment(s)
English bulldog ... before and today. They were not as "stocky" , legs were longer , nose wasn't that pushed back into his face , not as wrinkled ...

Frenchy August 10th, 2010 03:13 PM

2 Attachment(s)
I could not find an old picture for the pug , but still ... this drawing is from 1745.

cell August 10th, 2010 03:54 PM

[QUOTE=Loki Love;943437]The sad thing is that there should theoretically be no difference between working and showing dogs. A breed standard is just that - the standard.[/QUOTE]

I read a article re: Labrador retreivers Show VS Hunting lines and basically said its like breeding Models VS Athletes, how true that is.

[img]http://0.tqn.com/d/huntsville/1/5/Q/2/4/TGGAruby.jpg[/img] Racing bred Greyhound

[img]http://www.greyhounds.it/blog/kucha/hlama/Sobers-Kampari-L%C3%B6vudden-20092.jpg[/img] Show bred Greyhound

Racing greyhounds are very healthy and generally free of hereditary disease, which is due to breeding by racing lines and removing imperfect dogs from breeding. Greyhound Hereditary Neuropathy is seen only in showing lines and leads to muscle atrophy/wasting and appearing as young as 3-4 months.
Show dogs are larger and carry a higher body fat percentage then racing bred.

erykah1310 August 10th, 2010 06:43 PM

[QUOTE=Floppy Dog;943410]Here's Cocker Spaniels:

Working:

[ATTACH]68254[/ATTACH]

Show:

[ATTACH]68255[/ATTACH]

Also, see my album for Lady's pictures.[/QUOTE]

Uhh, may be just me, its been a while since I have focused a lot of time on AmCockers. but did you compare an English Cocker to an American here?

Floppy Dog August 11th, 2010 11:51 AM

[QUOTE=erykah1310;943475]Uhh, may be just me, its been a while since I have focused a lot of time on AmCockers. but did you compare an English Cocker to an American here?[/QUOTE]

I might have done. When I went looking for pictures on the internet, I didn't specify American or English, just working and show. I'd forgotten there's a considerable difference between the two countries. I'll refine my search and see what I come up with.

cell August 11th, 2010 12:28 PM

The cockers looks like a young English and a show standard American

this is a American Cocker or old

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Ch_Obo_American_Cocker_Spaniel.jpg[/img]

Floppy Dog August 11th, 2010 01:16 PM

[QUOTE=erykah1310;943475]Uhh, may be just me, its been a while since I have focused a lot of time on AmCockers. but did you compare an English Cocker to an American here?[/QUOTE]

After some checking on the internet, I couldn't find any pictures of working American Cocker Spaniels, all the working ones seem to be English. I did find the picture of Obo II that Cell posted and even he(?) looks way different to what American Cocker Spaniels look like today. I hope that doesn't mean that I have to go all the way to the UK to find a working Cocker if we want to add another dog to the houselhold! Not that I'd mind the trip, LOL, it just seems ridiculous to have to go that far away to get a dog from working stock if you are set on a particular breed.

BTW, did you catch the neck on the show Greyhound?!? I thought it's supposed to be a dog, not a baby giraff! LOL

TwinTails August 11th, 2010 02:16 PM

[QUOTE=Floppy Dog;943716]
BTW, did you catch the neck on the show Greyhound?!? I thought it's supposed to be a dog, not a baby giraff! LOL[/QUOTE]

I'm looking at that huge chest and those awkward hind legs :yell: So disproportionate :frustrated:

It's sad and ugly. I love purebred dogs, but seriously, show rings need to shape up :mad:

cell August 11th, 2010 02:27 PM

[QUOTE=Floppy Dog;943716] Not that I'd mind the trip, LOL, it just seems ridiculous to have to go that far away to get a dog from working stock if you are set on a particular breed.

BTW, did you catch the neck on the show Greyhound?!? I thought it's supposed to be a dog, not a baby giraff! LOL[/QUOTE]

In my searches I found a American society for hunting cocker spaniels, most seemed to be English line but are located in USA.

I never noticed the neck on the greyhound, but now that you mention it! lol

[img]http://www.outbackgundogs.com/images/labfhersheygood.jpg[/img] Chocolate hunting lab[img]http://www.blackhillslabradors.co.nz/images/Lab_club_ch_show_William.jpg[/img] Chocolate show lab
[img]http://www.outbackgundogs.com/images/pillar.jpg[/img] Black Hunting Lab[img]http://www.legasealabs.com/ole%20standing%20in%20Reston.JPG[/img] Black show Lab
[img]http://www.outbackgundogs.com/images/labfgeorgiafront.jpg[/img] Yellow hunting lab[img]http://images01.olx.in/ui/2/42/44/16253844_1.jpg[/img] Show Lab


side note: ever seen a

[img]http://www.silvermagnolialabradors.com/choclab.jpg[/img] Silver lab
[img]http://www.guidingeyes-md.org/images/Quick%20Photo%20Album/Quick%202(75).jpg[/img] Black and Tan Lab

TwinTails August 11th, 2010 04:45 PM

[QUOTE=cell;943767]side note: ever seen a

[img]http://www.guidingeyes-md.org/images/Quick%20Photo%20Album/Quick%202(75).jpg[/img] Black and Tan Lab[/QUOTE]

How about a Chocolate and Tan (Working) Lab:

[IMG]http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af226/112644/Pets/Byron201054.png[/IMG]

ownedbycats August 12th, 2010 09:32 AM

Im afraid I don't have pictures, but the disgust over what breeding for looks does to a breed has been around for a long time. I remember reading Albert Payson Terhune's Lad books as a kid (Terhune bred collies) and his rants over the toothpick nosed and legged, "no room in the narrow skull for a brain" results of breeding for looks in the collie breed date back to the ninteen twenties.

Longblades August 12th, 2010 12:21 PM

Just in case someone reading would like to get a Lab and doesn't know much about them yet I'd like to point out that Labs only come in three official colours, which are black, yellow and chocolate. Silver is hugely controversial and CKC membership, for one, prohibits advertising dogs as silver, meaning a breeder who does so is very likely to be a disreputable breeder. I've never seen a real live silver but the one pictured above is much less "weim" looking than most photos I've seen.

Labs do occasionnally appear in "mismarked" colours which would include the black and tan and the tan on tan shown above. As well odd spots and brindling has occurred, also long hair. These can be purebred, registered Labs but they cannot be shown in conformation.

There's a good website on mismarks here: [url]http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/mismarks.html[/url] I just love the yellow puppy with the musical note on his side.

Off-topic, sorry. The terms most commonly used in Labs are [B]field[/B], the lankier looking (working) one, and [B]bench[/B], the ones that show in conformation. "American" and "English" are also used, respectively, but are incorrect. Both types should be able to hunt and I personnally know several of each type that are. But it's mostly the fieldy type that you see in field trials.

How about the schism between field and bench English Springer Spaniels? Sorry, I can't find photos I can post but there is this site which describes the differences. [url]http://www.essft.com/fieldshow.html[/url] Be aware, if you google for images of each you will find bench types listed as either. I'll try later to post some photos. Too bad I don't have a good one of our own field girl but she pre-dated digital cameras.

Choochi October 13th, 2010 05:51 PM

Some very interesting examples, especially the doxies. You can totally see utility in the working ones having longer legs.

German Shepherds:

[IMG]http://www.extremedogsport.com/vickoludwigseck1.jpg[/IMG]
working line

[IMG]http://www.extremedogsport.com/original_71291.jpg[/IMG]
show line

Here's a very interesting site about the variations in the GS lines, types, even off-breeds:

[url]http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/13_Breed_Type/Breed_Types.html[/url]

VizLuv September 19th, 2011 10:27 AM

working v show
 
Depending on the breed and the breeder, there are often no differences between the two except perhaps temperment and eagerness to work/learn. I also notice that when people talk about the differences they tend to find the most extreme examples of each.

Dont get me wrong, I often see/hear differences in breeds, and there shouldnt be. Each breed has a standard, which has been developed many years ago by people who knew and understood the breed. They selected characteristics that were the best for the type of work done. Unfortunately many breeders who are only producing dogs that will work, dont really care what it looks like, as long as it resembles it in most ways. Take labs for example. They are supposed to be tough solid working dogs. They do not need great speed, thus the need for long legs is reduced. They are swimmers, so short thick legs are best for that. Dog that need to be fast, have longer toes (Greyhound, Saluki, etc.) but dogs that need more endurance have shorter cat-like toes.

Those looking for a dog can find a breeder that will suit their needs, they may just have to work hard to find one. Some breeds are not used often for their original purpose, which is sad, but there are still some breeders that trial the dogs to ensure working ability. They are out there, you just need to find them. I suggest that anyone looking for a working dog should visit tests/trials for that breed. There you will find breeders who work to keep their lines working.

Keep in mind that many of the original purposes of these dogs are no longer popular or acceptable (fox hunting for example). Even hunting dogs are becoming less popular due to a reduction in hunting lands and people who are joining this sport. Not a lot of farmers still use dogs to herd, ATV's are quickly taking their place. And how many people are able to use a Greyhound to hunt antelope, not in North America anyways. So tests, although not always realistic, are the only way to determine working ability.

I am please to say that our dogs are both show and hunting dogs. Just this past weekend I took two of our dogs to a Field test for pointers. Our female, Xena, who in 2009 was the #5 Vizsla in Canada (CKC) and has won a UKC Best in Show, earned 2 passing scores for her Field Dog junior test with results of 88 and 93 out of 100. Our boy, Monte, who is also a show dog and has won both a UKC Best in Show and Reserve Best in Show earned a quilifying score of 83 in the intermediate level. These dogs love to work, and I am proud to say that many of the breeders I see at shows, I also see at field tests, running the same dogs they show.

There are some breeds that have really changed, and I am sorry to see that, but dont assume all have. Many breeds still look very much like they did 50+ years ago. You cant look at 2 photos and go with that, look at many, as there are always good and bad dogs, no matter what decade you are in.

Mary-Ellen


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