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-   -   Iranian cleric issues Fatwa against dogs (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=70982)

Rick C June 19th, 2010 02:46 PM

Iranian cleric issues Fatwa against dogs
 
In an effort to discourage the inclusion of dogs as pets, an Iranian cleric issues a Fatwa against dogs, considered "unclean" in Islam.

[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37794231/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/[/url]

Rick C
[url]www.goldentales.ca[/url]

chico2 June 19th, 2010 04:07 PM

Rick,nice to hear from you again:thumbs up
I am sorry,but these people are unbelievable to me,not only because of the dogs,but for the way women are treated and a million other reasons.:evil:

NoahGrey June 19th, 2010 05:07 PM

While yes it is horrible to think that dogs are not as pets, but look at places like India...where cows are sacared, yet North America seems nothing wrong with eating cows.

chico2 June 20th, 2010 09:20 AM

The truth is,these "sacred"cows are suffering on the streets,in the cities:(
It really has nothing to do with some cleric in Iran deciding to order war(Fatwa) against dogs:evil:

Frenchy June 20th, 2010 09:46 AM

[QUOTE=chico2;929383]
I am sorry,but these people are unbelievable to me,not only because of the dogs,but for the way women are treated and a million other reasons.:evil:[/QUOTE]

I know what you mean :frustrated:

Sew-sew-steve June 20th, 2010 09:48 AM

as a muslim (though it might not matter to some of you) i'd like to say that you shouldnt look at countries like iran, india, pakistan, afghanistan, and other countries that share similar circumstances as good role models for islam. i mean, its not only for dogs, theres [I]many [/I]other things that are being blown out of proportion all for the sake of islam, which is a [I]complete [/I]neglegance.

all animals are creations of god (Allah in islams case). so you cant discriminate against them, some people need them for livestock protection, and other things of that nature. they've prooved wonderful for drugs, bombs, etc.. etc...

yes a dog is very loving, loyal, and couragous.

yes they're saliva is considered unclean, but thats what soap and sand are for.

but for reasons other than the most obvious ones (like angels' dislike for them) theres reasons we dont know yet as to why we cant have dogs [I]for recreational reasons.[/I]

if its a necessity then thats a different story.

really, the only restriction with dogs in islam is that you dont own one for a unecissary reason such as: [I]i want it for a pet.[/I]

but that doesnt mean you are allowed to harm dogs, bother them, or even torture/kill aimlessly for that matter. thats basically a one way ticket to hell.

though i will most likely end up with like 2 or so GSD's.

anyhow, yeah... take it or leave it.

Sew-sew-steve June 20th, 2010 10:00 AM

[QUOTE=chico2;929502]The truth is,these "sacred"cows are suffering on the streets,in the cities:(
It really has nothing to do with[B] some cleric in Iran deciding to order war(Fatwa) against dogs[/B]:evil:[/QUOTE]

[I]where [/I]did it say he was declaring [I]war[/I]?

[I]fatwa [/I]doesnt mean [I]war[/I]. it means an [I]opinon[/I], or a [I]ruling[/I].

[I]not [/I]war.

not that im blaming [I]you[/I], but thats how people missunderstand my religion :shrug:

mikischo June 20th, 2010 10:15 AM

Thank you for your explanation, Abe. It does matter and is obviously needed. It is unfortunate that you and other members of your faith or any other faith for that matter are put in a position (on this board or elsewhere) where you need to defend or explain your religion. Unfortunately, there is far too much ignorance and misinformation about Islam here in North America, although I believe and hope that this is slowly changing.

Sew-sew-steve June 20th, 2010 10:23 AM

[QUOTE=mikischo;929511]Thank you for your explanation, Abe. It does matter and is obviously needed. It is unfortunate that you and other members of your faith or any other faith for that matter are put in a position (on this board or elsewhere) where you need to defend or explain your religion. Unfortunately, there is far too much [B]ignorance and misinformation about Islam here in North America[/B], although I believe and hope that this is slowly changing.[/QUOTE]

i feel sometimes that i have to explain, and other times, i have to just grit my teeth and overlook someones rude comments (in real life or the internet.)

but its the few people who's thoughts arent taken away by the media (or whatever else) that really make you feel better.

14+kitties June 20th, 2010 10:49 AM

Just wondering what happens to all these dogs? If they are not allowed to be kept as pets do they just wander? After all, a person can only own so many dogs for herding purposes or guarding purposes. If that is the case do they form packs of wild dogs? Are they allowed to breed? That then leads to sickness and inbreeding. Soon the population is out of control which brings out many many more problems.
And, before I get attacked [I]one more time [/I]because people take what I write the wrong way, I am not talking because of the area they are in. I would be asking the same if it was going on in my back yard. This is a general question to anyone who feels they have the answer(s). I don't. :shrug:

Edit to say if it were going on in my back yard I would be doing something to fix it. One person at a time slowly changes things for the better........

Frenchy June 20th, 2010 10:58 AM

[QUOTE=Sew-sew-steve;929505]

.

really, the only restriction with dogs in islam is that you dont own one for a unecissary reason such as: [I]i want it for a pet.[/I]

[/QUOTE]

:confused: the "only" restriction ? It's one hell of a restriction to me !!

Sew-sew-steve June 20th, 2010 10:59 AM

[QUOTE=14+kitties;929515]Just wondering what happens to all these dogs? If they are not allowed to be kept as pets do they just wander? After all, a person can only own so many dogs for herding purposes or guarding purposes. If that is the case do they form packs of wild dogs? Are they allowed to breed? That then leads to sickness and inbreeding. Soon the population is out of control which brings out many many more problems.
And,[B] before I get attacked [I]one more time [/I]because people take what I write the wrong way,[/B] I am not talking because of the area they are in. I would be asking the same if it was going on in my back yard. This is a general question to anyone who feels they have the answer(s). I don't. :shrug:[/QUOTE]

i dont recall you being [I]attacked [/I]for anything before. so i dont know what you were insinuating there.

as for your question, thats another issue that can be taken as neglect to the animals because some solely depend on their persons. unless they are being relocated then thats a different story.

Sew-sew-steve June 20th, 2010 11:02 AM

[QUOTE=Frenchy;929517]:confused: the "only" restriction ? It's one hell of a restriction to me !![/QUOTE]

i dont get what you're saying.

its a restriction, sure.

but is it causing any [I]harm [/I]to the animal? no.

is it causing any [I]neglect [/I]to the animal? no.

is it even gonna [I]affect [/I]the animal? no.

doesnt mean, if you see a baby stray dog, you're not allowed to raise it. it also doesnt mean you cant nurture a wandering dog, and it surely doesnt mean cant play with a dog someone [I]already [/I]owns.

its really the owning thing.

14+kitties June 20th, 2010 11:10 AM

I remember my father saying if you want to start an argument start a conversation about politics or religion. Once more it seems it is true. :rolleyes:

Get the religious part out of this equation please and focus on what happens to these dogs who are not allowed to be kept as pets. [B]That[/B] is what I care about. Do they then wander and form packs which become a danger to livestock? Simple question. Look at China and the major cull that went on before they hosted the Olympics. That was a travesty of their own making. It was also the reason I refused to watch the Olympics that year but that's another story. It was horrible to read the stories coming out of there. Dogs being shot, clubbed, etc. :( You can not tell me that is purely the media perpetrating stories to make news. There has to be a grain of salt in there somewhere.

Sew-sew-steve June 20th, 2010 11:18 AM

no one is [I]arguing [/I]with you. you said you dont want to get attacked again.

all im saying is, you never did. atleast not by me.



i came on her, to make sure my religion was in the clear, not to argue with anyone. because its obvious its gonna get tied up with the stupid rule they have.

i dont know what they are doing exactly with the dogs, i dont live in iran, im not irani, and i dont plan on visiting there. i found about this just like you did.

[I]"You can not tell me that is purely the media perpetrating stories to make news. There has to be a grain of salt in there somewhere."[/I]

i was talking about the media perpetrating my religion, not whats going on with the dogs.

like i said, i came on her to make sure people understand this is an [I]irani [/I]thing, not an [I]islamic [/I]thing.

didnt come on here to argue, especially not with [I]you[/I].

14+kitties June 20th, 2010 11:27 AM

I couldn't care a monkey's hill of beans if people are Catholic, Islamic, Protestants, white, black, purple, whatever. I judge people by their actions and the way they treat other people and animals. I like [B]most [/B]people for that. Couldn't care a fiddler's hoot for religious background. In fact if religion never came up again it would make me ecstatic!!!! This is a pet site, [B]not[/B] a religious site.
If anyone else would like to answer or can answer without involving religion I would love to hear the responses. Other than that I am so done with this thread. Sorry Rick.

Sew-sew-steve June 20th, 2010 11:37 AM

well excuse me for learning my lesson from the last time my religion came up.
i'd love it if religion was kept out too, but i cant take that for granted can ii?

im very well composed, and i havent made any confrontations or anything. im just replying to what you are saying. you wanna leave, go ahead, you wanna stay be my guest. but if my religions comes up, i will too.

not here to argue or anything, here to clear things up, thats all.

mikischo June 20th, 2010 01:43 PM

I totally agree that religion should not matter, and [B]defamatory and condescending statements against any religion, particularly when based on ignorance and misinformation, absolutely do not belong on this forum.[/B] Our religion or, in some cases, lack thereof is a part of who we are. As I said in a previous post, it is unfortunate that members of any faith are put in a position where they feel the need to to defend or explain it.

Abe, you were not the one who brought up religion. You attempted to correct some erroneous (to say the least) statements that should never have been made on this forum in the first place, and you did so in a very polite and respectful manner. Keep coming back.:grouphug:

Frenchy June 20th, 2010 02:01 PM

[QUOTE=mikischo;929541]I totally agree that religion should not matter, and [B]defamatory and condescending statements against any religion, particularly when based on ignorance and misinformation, absolutely do not belong on this forum.[/B] [/QUOTE]

There was nothing posted of this sense . But we're all in tittle to our opinions and .. oh yes , free speech !

Rgeurts June 20th, 2010 02:20 PM

[QUOTE=Sew-sew-steve;929505]
yes they're saliva is considered unclean, but thats what soap and sand are for.
[/QUOTE]

Edited to add this paragraph: Sew-sew-steve, even though the quote was from you, please do not think my statements below are in any way aimed at you or intended for you. It's just a general statement.

The human mouth (and saliva) is far more unclean than a dogs.

My husband and I can't have children, so we have pets... and my oldest boy has gotten me through some very tough times, emotionally. I can't imagine being without him.
I understand people have different religions/beliefs, and that's fine. I don't push mine on anyone or talk down/judge anyone I don't agree with, but one thing that does bother me is you hear people saying we need to be "tolerant" to Muslim (and all other) beliefs. I say "fine", but it goes both ways. When all you ever hear in the Muslim communities (both North American and abroad) is how "western ways" and "western lifestyle" are evil and immoral (yet alot of them have no problem benefiting from the freedoms here) it becomes harder and harder to remain tolerant.

This Fatwa against dogs is just unimaginable to me. Even though the Fatwa is not intended to harm or injure animals, there will [B][U][B][B]always[/B][/B][/U][/B] be the extremists who take it that step further. What's to happen to these poor dogs when that happens? Keep the Fatwa in the originating country and pray those animals will have someone caring who will look out for them because it won't be tolerated here.

Just my :2cents::evil:

chico2 June 20th, 2010 04:00 PM

Well said Rgeurts:dog:
Abe,sorry if I misunderstood the word"fatwa",but we hear it often and "fatwa "against westerners,is about the same as war,it's been proven time and again..
Kuwait is a reasonably wealthy country,I do not compare Kuwait with Iran,who has a nut-case for a leader.

As for Muslims in general,I cannot say,I carry any great respect,but yes,mostly due to the fanatics from 9/11 and thousands of other horrors committed in the name of Islam.

I am certain Muslim people who only want to live in peace,is the majority,but not the ones we read about.
I just wish we could all live happily ever after,people of all color and faiths and care for all the animals in the world,before they are all gone,like you say,we are all Gods(Allahs)creatures.

marko June 20th, 2010 11:21 PM

[QUOTE]I am certain Muslim people who only want to live in peace,is the majority,but not the ones we read about.

I just wish the arab world would join the 21st century and we could all live happily ever after,people of all color and faiths and care for all the animals in the world,before they are all gone,like you say,we are all Gods(Allahs)creatures.
[/QUOTE]

I too am 1 million percent certain that the the vast vast vast vast majority of Muslims, Jews and Christians and atheists want to live in peace.

But to say that you wish Arabs would join the modern world is very provocative...
Personally I'd like people to reconsider their words when writing about other people's religions.

Every major religion that I know of has aspects of that religion that are not popular (depending on your particular belief - that phrase could be a major major understatement), every single one.

This forum is no place to bash the religion/traditions of other religions. We can talk about most anything around here as long as threads remain civil.

Thx - Marko

Melinda June 21st, 2010 06:46 AM

I enjoy when different nationalities/religions talks about their way of life...its interesting to see how others live and to find out the truth about it besides what the tv wants us to know, sorry, just my opinion, I don't get involved in these topics because I like to stay in the background and just read and learn.*L*

Love4himies June 21st, 2010 06:48 AM

[QUOTE=mikischo;929511]Thank you for your explanation, Abe. It does matter and is obviously needed. It is unfortunate that you and other members of your faith or any other faith for that matter are put in a position (on this board or elsewhere) where you need to defend or explain your religion. Unfortunately, there is far too much ignorance and misinformation about Islam here in North America, although I believe and hope that this is slowly changing.[/QUOTE]

It's not their religion they have to defend, it is the treatment of animals :frustrated:. Religion is not a factor.

Love4himies June 21st, 2010 07:01 AM

There is nothing that can beat the unconditional love from a pet, whether it be a dog, cat, bird, or cow. Many children and adults have been consoled by a pet during very stressful times in their lives.


It is too bad that this Iranian cleric does not see that all creatures on this planet are worthy of sharing love.

Jim Hall June 21st, 2010 07:12 AM

I think we are missng a point here betwwen religion , government ant social mores. Relgion is always a factor in muslim countries, islam defines your life and is a great part of political thought and action.

14+kitties June 21st, 2010 08:34 AM

[QUOTE=Love4himies;929677]It's not their religion they have to defend, it is the treatment of animals :frustrated:. Religion is not a factor.[/QUOTE]

:thumbs up Exactly the point I was trying to make earlier but unfortunately ----

[QUOTE=Jim Hall;929688]I think we are missng a point here betwwen religion , government ant social mores. Relgion is always a factor in muslim countries, islam defines your life and is a great part of political thought and action.[/QUOTE]

the above statement seems to be the norm. That is so sad.

marko June 21st, 2010 08:34 AM

I'll be honest, I know much less about Islam than i do about Christianity and Judaism. I am not a religious person but I am quite fascinated by religion and religious belief.

I'd be willing to bet 95% or more members also know very little about Islam.

We have an opportunity in this thread to learn a little bit from some of our Muslim members and we should embrace this learning opportunity.

Do i agree with a Fatwa against owing dogs on a personal level, no. But am I going to to bash the religion or people belonging to that religion because of what 1 cleric believes or preaches, no.

For what it's worth.....Ultra-Orthodox Jews also do not keep dogs for the same reason (uncleanliness) and it would not surprise me one bit if certain branches of Christianity also believe the same. Certainly Christianity, the prevalent religion in north America has plenty of tenets or decrees from the Church that are not acceptable to many people on this board.

Let's learn - not bash please.

Almost every Jew and Christian I know has problems with certain things that are written in their respective bibles...

What I am incredibly curious about is how this Fatwa (and Fatwas is general) affects Muslims in the western world.

14+kitties June 21st, 2010 08:44 AM

[QUOTE=marko;929707]Let's learn - not bash please.[/QUOTE]

Marko - in all due respect - I fail to see anyone that has "bashed" anyone else. I have asked a question that no one seems to be able to answer. No bashing intended. If it was taken that way I apologize. But this thing has been going on for the last couple of months now. I made a mistake which I apologized for a long time ago. I am done. It is unfortunate because of it I now have an ignore list which I never felt the need to have before. Freedom of speech seems to be a one way street at times. :(

marko June 21st, 2010 09:11 AM

My comment was not aimed at any one person in particular.

'Free Speech' - I'm all for it, but for obvious reasons it's not an absolute in any media in any country in the world as far as i know. It's only an absolute when people are talking in private.

We the admin and mods have every right to curtail any member's speech for rudeness, spam, slander etc. This in and of itself limits a member's free speech. Every other decent forum I know is the same and every forum would be overun by spammers, trolls etc if this were not the case.

We are not perfect but most members seem to think that we do a decent job.

To end this post on a positive note...Nobody will curtail anyone's free speech around here so long as threads remain civil.


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