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-   -   Homeade raw diet for kitty with CRF (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=67276)

SnowAngel01 December 11th, 2009 04:32 AM

Homeade raw diet for kitty with CRF
 
I have been reading some of the threads on the board regarding kitties with CRF. I have a 16 year old kitty who was diagnosed with CRF almost two years ago. His numbers have been relatively stable but he is having some muscle wasting from lack of protein. I would like to get him on a homemade raw diet. Preferably something made with chicken or turkey as I live in Alaska and raw meat is far to spendy to order in and not in abundance here. He will be starting calcitriol and Aluminum hydroxide gel powder as a binder next week.

He was eating the K/D chicken (yes, i now know how bad this is) and has been recently eating wellness grain free chicken, turkey and beef variety's. He gets raw egg yolk a few times a week (yes, I know about the biotin deficiency this can cause and he gets additional biotin in his supplement to counter act the avadin and has not had an issue in the year he has been getting the eggs) and is on a complete whole food supplement called BioPreparation. He gets 1 capsule of the f3 and one of the f2 split into two meals daily. He was on Renafood but has now been switched to Feline Renal Support. No subq's at this time.

Any suggestions/recipes are greatly appreciated.

sugarcatmom December 11th, 2009 06:42 AM

[QUOTE=SnowAngel01;859858]I would like to get him on a homemade raw diet. [/quote]

I think for your situation, the best thing would be to have a diet consult with Dr. Lisa Pierson, who is behind the very informative [url]www.catinfo.org[/url] website. Go to this link and scroll down a bit to find her email address: [url]http://www.catinfo.org/makingcatfood.htm#The_Ingredients[/url] The reason a consult would be good is because she looks at your cat's lab work and helps formulate a diet plan based on that. Many raw diets are too high in phosphorus for kidney cats and she has methods to help reduce that.

[QUOTE=SnowAngel01;859858]He gets raw egg yolk a few times a week (yes, I know about the biotin deficiency this can cause and he gets additional biotin in his supplement to counter act the avadin and has not had an issue in the year he has been getting the eggs) [/QUOTE]

Just to clarify, it's raw egg [I]white[/I] that contains avidin, not the egg yolk (which is actually high in biotin). I wouldn't feed egg yolk to a cat with CRF because it's also very high in phosphorus. A much better idea, if your cat will eat it, is to mix some finely chopped [U]cooked[/U] egg white into her food. Egg white is an excellent source of low phosphorus protein.

SnowAngel01 December 11th, 2009 08:07 PM

I went to the website and the Dr. emailed me back but at the moment I can not afford the 125.00 an hour phone consult fee. I just spent over 800 in teeth cleanings and blood work and it is far out of my range.

And yes, I meant he has been eating egg whites, not yolk...that was a mis-type.

So there are no people here feeding their CFR cats raw? I saw one member who said that they were. Is the only way to get a diet for him to pay a high consult fee? Seems a bit ridiculous to me.

Love4himies December 12th, 2009 09:50 AM

Yes, there is a member named Growler. She has had alot of success with it and is soooo very knowledgeable. She normally logs on at night, but I haven't seen any posts by her lately so not sure if she is very busy with Christmas right now.

She may want to see the results of your kitty's bloodwork and urinalysis so perhaps if you can post that, she may be able to give you more advice.

Here is her thread:



[url]http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=45017[/url]

sugarcatmom December 12th, 2009 11:42 AM

[QUOTE=SnowAngel01;860135]
So there are no people here feeding their CFR cats raw? I saw one member who said that they were.[/quote]

As Love4himies said, growler's CRF cat is doing great on a raw diet, but it's a premade commercial (frozen) product. I'm not sure what would be available to you in Alaska, and if you could get the nutritional profile of those foods (which is important because they can vary quite a bit). They also tend to be on the expensive side.

[QUOTE=SnowAngel01;860135]Is the only way to get a diet for him to pay a high consult fee? Seems a bit ridiculous to me.[/QUOTE]

No, the consult fee is just a shortcut to getting the info you need without all the research. But if you have more time than money, you could certainly do the research yourself.

It sounds like your cat's blood phosphorus levels must be high enough to warrant the addition of a phosphorus binder to her food, so phosphorus levels of the diet you make are going to be important. What's tricky is that phosphorus is an essential nutrient and cats, even ones with CRF, still need to get [I]some[/I]. Just not too much. And that still has to be balanced in the proper ratio with calcium (around 1.2 to 1.4 x as much calcium as phosphorus).

What you can do is peruse some nutrient databases for the calcium/phosphorus levels of the meat you choose and go from there. Some meats (like venison) are naturally lower in phosphorus than others (like rabbit). Omitting the bone can also reduce phosphorus dramatically, but it also reduces calcium, which means you'll have to add the calcium back in (using ground eggshells or one of the various calcium salts). And when you add the calcium, you have to calculate the amount you need from the [I]elemental[/I] amount of calcium, which varies with each source. Some info on that here: [url]http://www.faqs.org/nutrition/Ca-De/Calcium.html[/url]

Some nutrient databases:
[url]http://www.ars.usda.gov/main/site_main.htm?modecode=12-35-45-00[/url]
[url]http://www.answers.com/topic/phosphorus-and-calcium[/url]
[url]http://www.nutritiondata.com/tools/nutrient-search[/url]

Other supplements that may be required are taurine, omega3 fatty acids, vitamin B.

Still think $125 is too much?

growler~GateKeeper December 15th, 2009 03:29 AM

[QUOTE=SnowAngel01;860135]So there are no people here feeding their CFR cats raw? I saw one member who said that they were.[/QUOTE]

That would be me :D Hi SnowAngel01. It's been rather :crazy: here lately so I haven't been on as much.

My 18yr old CRF kitty has been eating raw for 2 years now, I first saw a homeopath vet not long after she was diagnosed & that's when she first started eating raw recommended by her homeopath vet. I [I]was[/I] feeding a local BC commercially produced raw diet but due to non-kidney related issues she can't handle bone anymore, so now I am purchasing raw meat from a local butcher and prepping it myself ~ the food I've fed has always been approved by her animal homeopath & homeopath vet for her situation.

My grrl has always had & still has normal phosphorus & calcium levels, she is taking a feline vitamin which contains taurine etc, she is also on Renal Support, Whole Body Support, Azodyl, as well as Subq fluids and 2 specifically tailored classic homeopathic remedies and I have recently tried a homeopath approved bone-free powdered pre-mix that is added to the meat to complete the necessary mineral requirements.

[QUOTE=Love4himies;860349]She may want to see the results of your kitty's bloodwork and urinalysis so perhaps if you can post that, she may be able to give you more advice.[/QUOTE]

Yes, thank you L4H :), if you can post your kitty's last 2 or 3 (to show stability/timeline) blood & urine numbers with reference ranges I can better see what you're dealing with. Anything out of normal as well as the usual BUN, creatinine, protein, phosphorus, calcium, potassium, Urine Specific Gravity, pH level.

[QUOTE=sugarcatmom;860374]As Love4himies said, growler's CRF cat is doing great on a raw diet, but it's a premade commercial (frozen) product.[/quote]

Yes Duffy is doing great, but she hasn't been on the commercial prepped raw for about 6 months now ;) except for an occasional bone-free meal for a little variety.

[QUOTE=sugarcatmom;860374]It sounds like your cat's blood phosphorus levels must be high enough to warrant the addition of a phosphorus binder to her food, so phosphorus levels of the diet you make are going to be important. What's tricky is that phosphorus is an essential nutrient and cats, even ones with CRF, still need to get [I]some[/I]. Just not too much. And that still has to be balanced in the proper ratio with calcium (around 1.2 to 1.4 x as much calcium as phosphorus).[/quote]

All very true, and a good reason to have a knowledgeable animal homeopath and homeopath vet working with you as there may be remedies that can help along with the food advice.

I find this shortcut [url]http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/index.html[/url] to the database search most helpful as well, be sure to choose the search item as close as possible to what you will be purchasing although some allowances must be made for bone as the database marks it as refuse.

$125/hr is not unreasonable for a consult :2cents:, I pay $175/hr for an in-clinic consult & exam with both an animal homeopath & a homeopathic vet.


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