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-   -   Lean Cuts by Tri-V (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=67153)

Melei'sMom December 4th, 2009 05:49 PM

Lean Cuts by Tri-V
 
:dog:I found this in the grocery store and wondered if anyone has tried this dog food or has thoughts on it
LABEL:
Ingredients: fresh ground lean red beef roast and steak meat, fresh beef liver and kidney, carrots, vegtable gums, onion powder, calcium, vitamin & mineral supplements, sodium nitrate and water sufficient for processing.
No cereals, grains, starches, artificial colour or salt added.
Gaurenteed Analysis
Moisture 84.5%
Protien 10.4%
Fiber 0.2%
Ash 0.9%
Fat 6.3%

kandy December 4th, 2009 06:05 PM

Onion is toxic to dogs - I can't believe a dog food manufacturer put that in it's ingredients. The toxin has a cumulative effect, so over time the dog would be slowly being poisoned. That would be my only concern about this food - other than the fact that the website doesn't list anything as ingredients past the vegetable gum (which is used to bind the ingredients).

Melei'sMom December 4th, 2009 06:10 PM

:wall:i am such a moron sometimes. I read the can...bought one and brought it home, and sat here and copied the label onto the post and still it did not dawn on me that there was onion in it. I know what onion does to dogs... and I just seemed to totally blank the info out when I got so excited about the meat listed and the no starches/grains.
that can will not be opened here for Melei to eat. I will be emailing the company as well and asking about the onion.

Melei'sMom December 4th, 2009 06:23 PM

Have emailed company with my concern about the onion, and included that what I have purchased will be returned to the store and I will not be buying anymore. no reason they need to know I only bought one can.
Lets see what happens now...

Melei'sMom December 10th, 2009 03:59 PM

Got a response from the makers of Lean cuts...
I don't know, what do you think of this reasoning...sounds a little weird to me but I am no expert...

[COLOR="Navy"]Hi Teresa;

Thank you so very much for your inquiry regarding onion powder in Lean Cuts
Beef.

You are correct that onions can cause a type of anemia due to damage to the red blood cells when fed to pet at toxic levels. There are two toxicity
levels, one would be toxicity with one serving and the other is toxicity
with many servings over time. Another level would be extremely minute
quantities that would never reach a toxicity level after a lifetime of
feeding. The level of onion powder in a 400g can of Lean Cuts Beef would be
.06%(.0006) of the can. The minimum level to cause toxicity over many
servings is .5% of your dog's body weight. A Chihuahua would need 15g or
more per day over time. A Labrador 450g or more per day.

Onion powder is added in a minute amount to reduce the strong aroma of 100% beef. Despite the damages of larger quantities of onion, many people
believe that in small quantities it is quite beneficial.

I hope this information helps reduce your concerns about using Lean Cuts
Beef and I can assure you that the product is completely safe for your
family pet.

Kind Regards,
Cliff Jones
President[/COLOR]

rainbow December 11th, 2009 01:45 PM

As long as this food is only given occassionally then I don't see a problem with it. :shrug:

As far as their reason for adding onion power, I think it's a little weird ....why don't they use garlic powder instead? :confused:

Maybe you should send back an email to ask them. :D

Melei'sMom December 12th, 2009 04:35 PM

[QUOTE=rainbow;859956]Maybe you should send back an email to ask them. :D[/QUOTE]

Ok :)
email sent, now just have to wait and see what they say this time:confused:

luckypenny December 12th, 2009 05:13 PM

[QUOTE]Onion powder is added in a minute amount to reduce the strong aroma of 100% beef.[/QUOTE]

:confused: That is simply an odd reason imo. How strong does beef smell? I would think the smell of meat is what would entice a dog to eat it?

I'd be more concerned about the addition of sodium nitrate...a chemical preservative.

Considering the ingredients, I'm guessing it would take less than an hour to prepare a large quantity yourself to freeze in small portions. No onions or preservatives necessary and at a fraction of the cost.

rainbow December 12th, 2009 06:37 PM

OMD, I never even noticed that in the ingredients. :o I guess because it was listed after the vitamins & minerals but still that is no excuse. :o

[B]LP[/B] is right.....it is a [B]BIG[/B] concern. :eek: From [url]http://www.cspinet.org/reports/chemcuisine.htm[/url] ....


[QUOTE]SODIUM NITRITE, SODIUM NITRATE
Preservative, coloring, flavoring: Bacon, ham, frankfurters, luncheon meats, smoked fish, corned beef.

Meat processors love sodium nitrite because it stabilizes the red color in cured meat (without nitrite, hot dogs and bacon would look gray) and gives a characteristic flavor. Sodium nitrate is used in dry cured meat, because it slowly breaks down into nitrite. Adding nitrite to food can lead to the formation of small amounts of potent cancer-causing chemicals (nitrosamines), particularly in fried bacon. Nitrite, which also occurs in saliva and forms from nitrate in several vegetables, can undergo the same chemical reaction in the stomach. Companies now add ascorbic acid or erythorbic acid to bacon to inhibit nitrosamine formation, a measure that has greatly reduced the problem. While nitrite and nitrate cause only a small risk, they are still worth avoiding.

Several studies have linked consumption of cured meat and nitrite by children, pregnant women, and adults with various types of cancer. Although those studies have not yet proven that eating nitrite in bacon, sausage, and ham causes cancer in humans, pregnant women would be prudent to avoid those products.

The meat industry justifies its use of nitrite and nitrate by claiming that it prevents the growth of bacteria that cause botulism poisoning. That’s true, but freezing and refrigeration could also do that, and the U.S. Department of Agriculture has developed a safe method using lactic-acid-producing bacteria. The use of nitrite and nitrate has decreased greatly over the decades, because of refrigeration and restrictions on the amounts used. The meat industry could do the public’s health a favor by cutting back even further. Because nitrite is used primarily in fatty, salty foods, consumers have important nutritional reasons for avoiding nitrite-preserved foods.
[/QUOTE]


[B]Melei'sMom,[/B] I'm sorry I didn't notice that before you sent the second email. :o

MaddyCakes December 23rd, 2009 10:10 AM

Ack, I actually tried a couple cans of this product this past month! And although I had just opened a can...I went home and threw it out! I'm so happy I noticed this post!! Thanks for the info!

rainbow December 23rd, 2009 12:41 PM

[B]Melei'sMom,[/B] did you ever get a reply to your second email?

Morbo March 23rd, 2010 08:27 PM

Onion Powder in Lean Cuts dog food
 
To those who have stopped using this dog food because it contains Onion Powder.

Are onions potentially dangerous to dogs? Sometimes, if ingested in HUGE quantities. (several pounds of onion at one time)

Can prolonged exposure to onions be dangerous. Yes, but it takes LARGE quantities to do any damage at all (1/4 to 1/2 pound daily for an extended period of time)

Can minute amounts of onion powder fed daily affect a dog in any way. NO

The amount of Onion Powder in Lean Cuts dog food is equal to 1/4 of a gram per can (1/112 of an ounce or aproximately 1/1800 pound). This amount cannot harm dogs in any way and it would even be difficult or impossible to detect through detailed blood analysis.

The quality of the ingredients used is very high, the amount of Onion Powder used is next to nothing. The food is safe for lifetime consumption and will not harm your dog in any way.

Before you start writing posts directing others to use or not use a product based on your opinions (as opposed to science) at least do your homework.

kandy March 24th, 2010 12:26 PM

While immediate symptoms of toxicity from onions would require more than the amount in this particular dog food (but much less than 'several pounds at a time'), the cumulative effects are largely unknown - and IMO probably misdiagnosed as hemolytic anemia from other causes or as other conditions such as immune mediated hemolytic anemia. Just as there are some dogs that can eat chocolate with no visible effects, I'm sure there are some dogs that can handle onions better than others. IMO, and I'm sure for alot of other pet owners, it's better to err on the side of caution and not allow ingestion of ANY known toxins, especially those with a possible cumulative effect.

The onion powder in this food is fairly high up on the ingredient list and that, IMO, is a risk that isn't worth taking.

We don't tell people what to feed or not feed, we simply offer our opinions when asked for them.

exkalibur March 24th, 2010 08:18 PM

[QUOTE=Morbo;900095]To those who have stopped using this dog food because it contains Onion Powder.

Are onions potentially dangerous to dogs? Sometimes, if ingested in HUGE quantities. (several pounds of onion at one time)

Can prolonged exposure to onions be dangerous. Yes, but it takes LARGE quantities to do any damage at all (1/4 to 1/2 pound daily for an extended period of time)

Can minute amounts of onion powder fed daily affect a dog in any way. NO

The amount of Onion Powder in Lean Cuts dog food is equal to 1/4 of a gram per can (1/112 of an ounce or aproximately 1/1800 pound). This amount cannot harm dogs in any way and it would even be difficult or impossible to detect through detailed blood analysis.

The quality of the ingredients used is very high, the amount of Onion Powder used is next to nothing. The food is safe for lifetime consumption and will not harm your dog in any way.

Before you start writing posts directing others to use or not use a product based on your opinions (as opposed to science) at least do your homework.[/QUOTE]

Morbo, do you represent tri-v in any way ?

rainbow March 30th, 2010 12:14 PM

[QUOTE=kandy;900307]While immediate symptoms of toxicity from onions would require more than the amount in this particular dog food (but much less than 'several pounds at a time'), the cumulative effects are largely unknown - and IMO probably misdiagnosed as hemolytic anemia from other causes or as other conditions such as immune mediated hemolytic anemia. Just as there are some dogs that can eat chocolate with no visible effects, I'm sure there are some dogs that can handle onions better than others. IMO, and I'm sure for alot of other pet owners, it's better to err on the side of caution and not allow ingestion of ANY known toxins, especially those with a possible cumulative effect.

The onion powder in this food is fairly high up on the ingredient list and that, IMO, is a risk that isn't worth taking.

We don't tell people what to feed or not feed, we simply offer our opinions when asked for them.[/QUOTE]

Well said, kandy ......always better to err on the side of caution. :thumbs up

And, it's also the sodium nitrate that is a big concern. :eek:

Morbo July 6th, 2010 08:26 PM

Lean Cuts by Tri-V
 
Do I work for Tri-V? NO

I did however take the time out of my life to do some research on onion toxicity in dogs, found out the amounts required to cause any problems, read the newspaper article from SFGate (very poor article that takes select information from a paper by a vet does not give all the information required) and then asked Tri_v to provide me with the amount of onion powder they use in the product and, once I had all the info required I posted my comments.

What I will never do is say anything that cannot be backed up by science, and I will NEVER give you MY OPINION (IMO) without being able to back up my comments.

If somebody continually adds the famous IMO throughout their posts, these are the people you need to not listen to for they have simply read something somewhere and taken it to be the honest truth.

Read the scientific papers on the internet, get the facts straight and then (and only then) make up your own mind.

Quotes from sites that talk of the problem ......

"Dogs develop hemolytic anemia if they eat enough onions. I don't think that it matters too much whether the onions are cooked or not. The quantity of onions required is high enough that dogs can generally tolerate small doses of onions without any problem and moderate amounts of onion without clinically apparent disease, even though there may be measurable changes on lab test results."

"Consumption of as little as 5 g/kg of onions in cats or 15 to 30 g/kg in dogs has resulted in clinically important hematologic changes. "

This is the LEAST that must be ingested to cause problems that can be diagnosed with blood work.

Tri-V Lean Cuts contains about 1/4 of a gram per can of onion powder (I believe they have actually removed the onion powder from their new products). It would take 60 cans of food to make 15g of onion powder and that is the least amount required to cause problems in a small (15kg) dog.

To put it simply, this dog food is perfectly good for your pet. And that is not just IMO.

I have 2 large breed dogs,(Bernese Mountain Dog and a Shepherd cross) and both are in excellent health. They are fed Leans Cuts as an additive to their kibble. I used to use RollOver, but the dogs prefer this food.

luckypenny July 6th, 2010 08:45 PM

Still wouldn't use a product with sodium nitrate...not for my human family, not for my dogs. Besides, still a lot cheaper making your own stew and you know exactly the quality of ingredients that go into it :shrug:.

Morbo July 6th, 2010 09:05 PM

Ingredients listings
 
[QUOTE=kandy;900307]While immediate symptoms of toxicity from onions would require more than the amount in this particular dog food (but much less than 'several pounds at a time'), the cumulative effects are largely unknown - and IMO probably misdiagnosed as hemolytic anemia from other causes or as other conditions such as immune mediated hemolytic anemia. Just as there are some dogs that can eat chocolate with no visible effects, I'm sure there are some dogs that can handle onions better than others. IMO, and I'm sure for alot of other pet owners, it's better to err on the side of caution and not allow ingestion of ANY known toxins, especially those with a possible cumulative effect.

[B][B][B][I][U]The onion powder in this food is fairly high up on the ingredient list and that, IMO, is a risk that isn't worth taking.[/U][/I][/B][/B][/B]

We don't tell people what to feed or not feed, we simply offer our opinions when asked for them.[/QUOTE]



Just for your info. Where the product shows up on the list of ingredients has nothing at all to the amount of the product. It shows only that the ingredients ahead of it are more numerous and those after it are of lesser quantity. if a product is 99% one ingredient, then the ones that follow are minimal in amount. Regardless of where it shows up, TRI-V has already stated that the amount of onion powder is equal to about 1/4g per can.

This amount is so minimal that it would be undetectable in the blood of an dog fed this product. This small level cannot accumulate in the dog because their body will effectively remove all traces of onion powder at a rate that makes accumulation of toxins impossible.

This is not IMO, but FACT.

Morbo July 6th, 2010 09:15 PM

Toxicity buildup?
 
[QUOTE=kandy;857313]Onion is toxic to dogs - I can't believe a dog food manufacturer put that in it's ingredients. The toxin has a cumulative effect, so over time the dog would be slowly being poisoned. That would be my only concern about this food - other than the fact that the website doesn't list anything as ingredients past the vegetable gum (which is used to bind the ingredients).[/QUOTE]

Kandy; Could you please tell me where you heard or read about "The toxin has a cumulative effect, so over time the dog would be slowly being poisoned."?

I suggest you do a little light reading on the subject. The main way to treat a dog that has eaten onions, let them be, give them a day or two and all will be fine. WHY? Because the dogs body will naturally clean out the toxins, and they do so at a rate that far exceeds the amount of onion in this product. There is no cumulative effect at minute levels.

Rgeurts July 6th, 2010 09:40 PM

[QUOTE=Morbo;934762]Do I work for Tri-V? NO



What I will never do is say anything that cannot be backed up by science, and I will NEVER give you MY OPINION (IMO) without being able to back up my comments.

[B][I]Then it would not be an "opinion" it would be a fact. I, for one, trust the opinions of the members here. Alot of what they have told me has been backed up by my vet[/I][/B]

If somebody continually adds the famous IMO throughout their posts, these are the people you need to not listen to for they have simply read something somewhere and taken it to be the honest truth.

[I][B]The "IMO" just simply says that is their opinion, which they are entitled to. It is up to each individual to do their own research prior to making any decisions. But an opinion can make you think about things you may not have. [/B][/I]



[/QUOTE]

And as an FYI... your dogs may be fine with it, but others will not be. Our Malamute puppy ate 1/8 of an onion about 2 weeks ago. It made him so sick. Diarrhea, gas etc and he had to be checked for anemia. Our vet told us not to let him have ANY onion or onion products. She told us that it isn't a needed or necessary ingredient and should be avoided as it will be extremely harmful to some dogs, even in small amounts (like ours). Our puppy weighs 56 pounds at 4 months, so the small amount he ate should not have affected him in such a manner, but it did. Why take a chance on something that isn't necessary.

I also find it hard to believe that you would come on here, so defensive and argumentative because of others "opinions" and not in some way have an interest in Lean Cuts (or the company that makes it), especially considering this is the ONLY thread you have posted in. People do not generally create an account and try to convince people that the grocery store brand of food is a good and safe product. However, there are people who works for these companies that search google for keywords like "lean cuts", find negative posts then post themselves, as an individual (when in fact they have alterior motives) to sway opinion back to a positive level. Not saying that's you, in any way;)

Morbo July 6th, 2010 09:43 PM

Tri-V ingredients
 
Just got off the Tri-V website. It appears that they no longer use onion powder OR sodium nitrate in their Lean Cuts dog food. Neither is listed in the ingredients list.

luckypenny July 6th, 2010 09:48 PM

They also cut out the calcium, vitamin & mineral supplements in addition to the onion and sodium nitrate. I wonder why that would be?

deisel August 2nd, 2010 01:07 PM

I just purchased a case of the stuff at Costco and there is still nitrates and onion powder in it. I should have red the label before purchasing—i just assumed that Costco would carry a high grade product.(Not saying that it isn't) I checked the website and see that the product that i purchased has a lighter label than what is shown (beige)I would still purchase this product if they removed the onion powder and nitrates. How about adding pumpkin or some other vegetable that is beneficial to animals.

deisel August 2nd, 2010 01:14 PM

Also wondering about the soy bean meal. How is it beneficial to dogs or is it just a filler—does anyone know? Thanks

Eskie August 6th, 2010 12:51 PM

Hi. I saw this brand of food at Save on Foods and recognized it as the food my breeder would mix into the diet of her dogs. She even gave me a can to take home in the starter kit she assembled for me earlier in the year. The kibble she used was special order from some company, but I can assure you she is no backyard breeder and I have done research before deciding where to buy my dog. (i wonder if she still uses it?)

I didn't inquire about the onion, but I was excited to see a healthy brand of wet dog food on the market. However now my mind is being plagued with doubt about Lean Cuts. Surely onion powder can't be all that bad? My puppy has just started eating this brand of food (I've begun to mix it into his Innova puppy kibble, that must shrink the onion factor even more?) and he's still as lively as ever. It's been about 3 days. I suppose I'll do more research but my main point of signing up and posting is to prove that [B]YES[/B], people will sign up and post on a thread if it involves their beloved pets, or something they wish to debate, and they don't necessarily support the company that makes the food (to the user who said Morbo must be connected to the company in some way). I may be young but I, too, want to know what is best for my dog.

also, i'm pretty sure too much of anything (even if dogs can consume it and it is beneficial to them) will cause the dog to become sick and cause diarrhea. is the bit of onion powder really so much of a problem compared to the 100% ground beef, no by-product and no "mystery meats"? i was glad to see a dog food without filler but perhaps i'll have to shell out more money for the [I]really[/I] good stuff or something.

rainbow August 11th, 2010 07:23 PM

The last time I checked the cans in the supermarket here the label still showed onion powder and sodium nitrate. :shrug:

I just checked their website and this is what they list ...

[QUOTE]Lean Cuts Beef 690g

Ingredients:
Fresh ground lean red beef roast and steak meat, fresh beef liver and kidney, water sufficient for processing, carrots, and vegetable gums.
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:
Moisture: 84.5%
Protein: 10.4%
Crude Fibre: 0.2%
Ash: 00.9%
Fat: 06.3%
[/QUOTE]

I guess if anyone wants to know for sure they should email the company instead of phoning so you get a written response.

rainbow August 11th, 2010 07:25 PM

[QUOTE=deisel;941149]Also wondering about the soy bean meal. How is it beneficial to dogs or is it just a filleródoes anyone know? Thanks[/QUOTE]

Imo it is not beneficial as it is a filler used as a cheap source of protein.

thor'n'loki May 23rd, 2011 12:17 PM

lean cuts
 
I have just bought some Lean cuts, and have fed my dog lean cuts as an additive to his kibble quite often. I am very particular about what I feed mr. Loki
and read all the labels, I can assure you Onion Powder is no where to be found on the ingredients list and neither is Sodium Nitrate. What I would be more concerned with is the ingredients in some of the commercial kibbles out there that contain wheat, soy and corn as my little Mr. Loki can attest to causes horrible skin problems. Now he eats Medical kibble from the vet.:dog::dog:

Poodle Servant July 9th, 2011 11:25 PM

lean cuts food for dogs
 
I purchased a 400g can of lean cuts food for dogs today from the Super Value around the corner. It cost the same price I have paid for a good canned food from Bosley's, and my fussy little toy poodle loves it! She has tried many canned foods (and a large number of other small dog foods) and has not liked them. She really likes this one, mixed with a bit of good grade kibble, and I will continue to give it to her for as long as she chooses.

The label on the can states the following ingredients:

"Fresh ground lean red beeef roast and steak meat, fresh beef liver and kidney, carrots, begetable gums, calcium, vitamin and mineral supplements and water sufficient for processing.

No cereals, grains, starches, artificial colour or salf added."

No onion, no garlic, no nitrates

pattymac July 10th, 2011 12:27 AM

I've been feeding this to Bayley for a while now. I mix about 2 tblspns into her Kirkland kibble. She likes it, I checked out the ingredients and didn't see anything bad and right now with money being tight, it works for us. Gotta find a butcher here so I can get scraps and bones for her.


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