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-   -   President's Choice Nutrition First - new formula (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=66434)

Hound Dog October 27th, 2009 08:57 PM

President's Choice Nutrition First - new formula
 
This week President's Choice launched its reformulated Nutrition First dry food for dogs and cats. The old formulation, called "Nutrition 1st" will continue to be available for some time, to allow pet owners to make a gradual transition.

I got a look today at the Large Breed dog Chicken and Brown Rice formula and copied down the ingredients. They look pretty good for a supermarket brand - no corn, no wheat, no soy, no by-products, and no fillers.

As per the package, here are the ingredients:

Chicken Meal, Chicken, Oatmeal, Dehulled Barley, Brown Rice, Brewers Rice, Chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols - source of vitamin E), Natural chicken flavour, Tomatoes, Whole Dried Egg, Herring Meal, Flaxseed, Brewer’s Yeast, Salmon Oil (source of DHA), Whole Sweet Potatoes, Whole Carrots, Whole Blueberries, Whole Cranberries, Whole Apples, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Dicalcium Phosphate, Sodium Chloride, Chicory Root Extract, Choline Chloride, Vitamins & Chelated Minerals (Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Niacin, Vitamin C, Inositol, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Beta Carotene, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin K, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulphate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulphate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Probiotics (Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Casei, Enterococcus Faecium, Bifidobacterium Thermophilum), DL-Methionine, Glucosamine, Yucca Schidigera, Chondroitin Sulphate, Dried Rosemary.

Crude Protein 23%
Crude Fat 13%
Crude Fibre 4%
Moisture 10%
Omega 6 1.8%
Omega 3 .4%
Glucosamine 350 mg./kg.
Chondroitin 50 mg./kg.

I didn't check the formulations for Puppy, Adult, Toy & Small Breed, or Weight Control, or any of the Cat ones (Kitten, Adult, Weight & Hairball Control). There's also a Lamb & Brown Rice flavour for dogs.

The pricing appears to be substantially less than comparable name brands - less than $3 a kilo if you buy the large sizes.

I have some minor concerns (no Magnesium, and what the heck is "Natural chicken flavour" doing as the 8th ingredient) but overall this looks like a nutritious food.

What do others think?

Chaser October 27th, 2009 09:42 PM

For a supermarket brand I'm actually pretty impressed.....but it's VERY grain heavy (oatmeal, barley & brown rice comprising 3 of the first 5 ingredients). And brewer's rice is actually just a crappy filler.

But I'll reluctantly admit it's a big step for any supermarket brand to make. Way to go PC! I like their people products, and it's nice to see them making an effort to improve their pet food.

BUT, I still believe strongly in feeding a high-protein food with human-quality ingredients. This food definately doesn't do that.....but it's a good step in the right direction.

[B][I][U]ADDITION:[/U][/I][/B] Eek! It has vitamin K....essentially toxic and should not be in pet food. They would still have a very long way to go with this food before I would feed it to my dogs.

rainbow October 28th, 2009 01:09 PM

I agree with Chaser about it being too grainy but it is alot better than the other brands available on the supermarket shelves. :thumbs up

As far as the Vitamin K send them an email and ask if it is Vitamin K1 or Vitamin K3 ......it's the K3 that you want to avoid. :)

Love4himies October 28th, 2009 01:21 PM

Hmmmm, I had a problem finding the new cat food.

Anyways. I used to feed my cats PC Nutrition 1st kibble (red bag) and some of their canned, and I am sure the first ingredient was corn so I hope they have changed it.

Winston October 28th, 2009 03:16 PM

The first ingrediant is chicken meal??? second is chicken?? Here is an explanation of what chicken meal is

[B]Chicken meal is a commonly-used ingredient in pet foods. It is defined by the AAFCO as "the dry rendered product from a combination of clean flesh and skin with accompanying bone, derived from whole carcasses of chicken thereof, exclusive of feathers and skin".[B][I] Chicken meal is never suitable for human consumption as it is rendered[/I][/B]
Turns me right off! sorry guys! and as you all said it is way too grainy for my liking. Good for PC trying to improve the quality though :thumbs up

Hound Dog October 28th, 2009 04:20 PM

[QUOTE=Winston;840257]The first ingrediant is chicken meal??? second is chicken?? Here is an explanation of what chicken meal is

[B]Chicken meal is a commonly-used ingredient in pet foods. It is defined by the AAFCO as "the dry rendered product from a combination of clean flesh and skin with accompanying bone, derived from whole carcasses of chicken thereof, exclusive of feathers and skin".[B][I] Chicken meal is never suitable for human consumption as it is rendered[/I][/B]
Turns me right off! sorry guys! and as you all said it is way too grainy for my liking. Good for PC trying to improve the quality though :thumbs up[/QUOTE]
If the first ingredient listed were chicken, it still wouldn't be the first ingredient, once 75-80% of its weight is reduced by dehydration.

[url=http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=meat-meal]Sabine Contreras[/url], for whom I have much respect, says:
[quote]In my opinion, as long as high quality ingredients are used, it's not as important whether a dry food contains only fresh meat, or only meat meal, or some of both - what's far more important is your dog's overall diet.

If you feed your dog mostly dry food, with nothing or very little else added - like most people do - I recommend looking for a product that does contain one or more concentrated sources of animal protein in form of meal (either by itself, or in combination with fresh meats). This kibble will make up almost all of your dog's food intake, and if you feed a food that only contains fresh meat, the actual proportion of meat to grains or other carbohydrate sources is very low - and thus species inappropriate for an animal that is a meat eater by nature, with a digestive tract designed to process mainly meats and fat.[/quote]

On the same page, she quotes the AAFCO definition of poultry meal:
[quote]"Poultry meal is the dry rendered product from a combination of clean flesh and skin with or without accompanying bone, derived from the parts of whole carcasses of poultry or a combination thereof, exclusive of feathers, heads, feet, and entrails. It shall be suitable for use in animal food. If it bears a name descriptive of its kind, it must correspond thereto."[/quote]

kandy October 29th, 2009 11:38 AM

Personally I would rather have 'meal' as a first ingredient rather than meat in it's wet weight. Once the water is removed during processing, a wet weight meat is going to drop down the ingredient list. Since this food has chicken meal first, and chicken second - the actual chicken is going to drop down to about 5th on the list anyway. While this food is much better than most store brands I've seen - it's still fairly grainy. I also don't like the brewer's rice.

Still, it's a huge step forward for a store brand food. I'd be curious as to where it's made though - and where they get their ingredients from.

ETA: Ok - well, perhaps the large breed has taken a step forward but this formula hasn't:
[QUOTE]President's Choice, Nutrition 1st, Adult Chicken & Rice formula:
Chicken, chicken meal, brewers rice, ground corn, corn gluten meal, poultry fat (naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols, a source of vitamin E), ground barely, fish meal, poultry flavour, beet pulp, flaxseed meal, dried whole egg, yeast culture, salt, dicalcium phosphate, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, mannannoligosaccharide, choline chloride.
[B]Please note that product ingredients and product information may occasionally change from the above[/B]. Kindly refer to actual product labelling. [/QUOTE]

That last 'qualifying statement' would have me running the other way quickly even if the ingredients weren't sub-par (I added the bold).

claddaugh October 29th, 2009 01:45 PM

Chicken Meal?
 
There's chicken meal, and then there's chicken meal. Ultimately, you have to know what's being rendered.

The kibble I buy uses only human-grade ingredients, so all the ingredient going in are fit for human consumption. The chicken is then [I]rendered[/I] into a powder than can be used to form a [I]dry[/I] kibble.

Now, if your pet food manufacturer renders chicken beaks, feathers and feet, then the quality of the meal you're getting is sub-standard.

It's much like making a meat-loaf. You can start with fatty, gristly ground beef, or you can start with ground sirloin. The end product will be very different, both nutritionally and in taste!

rainbow October 29th, 2009 02:45 PM

[B]kandy,[/B] I think those are the ingredients from the old formula .....they probably haven't updated their website yet.

And let's hope they don't include that 'qualifying statement' with the new formula. :eek:

Hound Dog October 29th, 2009 08:39 PM

[QUOTE=rainbow;840614][B]kandy,[/B] I think those are the ingredients from the old formula .....they probably haven't updated their website yet.[/quote]
That's right. Don't get confused between "Nutrition 1st" (old name) and "Nutrition First" (new name) - especially since both will be sold side by side until the old stock runs out.

mafiaprincess October 31st, 2009 09:05 PM

Meal is more desirable as the top ingredients in a food as it is without water weight.. I'd prefer to see chicken meal, salmon meal, etc on my dog's food as opposed to straight up chicken.. Chicken alone will fall down the list when water weight is removed and then your dog is getting way less meat.

I don't want to see un-named meal.. or anything like poultry meal as who knows what is in it. But named meat sources in meal form are generally some of the top ingredients on all higher quality kibbles.

threenorns February 18th, 2012 06:12 PM

if it just says "Vitamin K", it'll be vitamin K - either K1 or K2.

Vitamin K is a primary vitamin important for clotting - it's the first response against rat poisoning.

what you're thinking of about vitK being toxic is a substance called "menadione", which isn't actually vitamin K. it'll be listed as "menadione sodium bisulfate", "menadione sodium bisulfite", "menadione dimethylprimidinol sulfate", "menadione dimethylprimidinol sulfite", or "menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite". sometimes they'll leave off the "menadione" and just put, ie, "sodium bisulfate". in parantheses after, it'll say "vitamin K" or "a source of vitamin K activity" or some such blithering vagary.


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