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-   -   Any Experience With Prolapse Issues Caused by Neurological issues?? (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=64326)

Smiley14 July 22nd, 2009 07:00 PM

Any Experience With Prolapse Issues Caused by Neurological issues??
 
Midwest Boston Terrier Rescue just got in a new Boston Terrier puppy named Nismo that has a prolapsed anus and leaks pee and poop continually. He came to the rescue so sore, that he cries whenever they wipe him clean and he has infections in his bum as well. Very sad case for a tiny 3 pound baby! He went to the vet for surgery today, but end up not getting it as the vet thinks his issues might be more neurological. According to them, Nismo should still be hunching over to poop and squatting to pee. Snce it appears to the foster mom that he goes without knowing and doesn't hunch over to go that it's a Neurological issue, and that it can't be fixed. They did not perform the prolapse surgery yet because of this and MWBTR is left scrambling for answers on what to do next and how to help. They are trying to get him into a specialist if they can, but are short the funds right now. I'm not with the rescue directly, but am helping with a fundraiser, but we are trying to find if anyone out there has any ideas or experiences with his issues or if anyone has ever heard of this before?? It's just heartbreaking. [URL="http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=14209507"]Here[/URL] is his petfinder link. But he won't be available for adoption for a long time, if ever. If anyone has any experience with this, I can PM you the foster mom's info. She is desperate for information right now.

hazelrunpack July 22nd, 2009 09:46 PM

I do know of a puppy that had a prolapsed anus, Smiley, but I'm not sure if that pup was hunching and squatting. The surgery [I]was[/I] done and I know it was successful, but I'll see if I can find out about behavior before the surgery was done and get back to you.

Dr Lee July 22nd, 2009 09:57 PM

I am sorry to hear about Nismo's problems. How old is Nismo? Is the rectal prolapse improving? What is being done to treat the rectal prolapse and the infection?

There are nerves that control the anal and bladder sphincters that come off of the spine. If there is neurologic damage or malformation then these can lead to problems. Since the nerves come off the spine, are there any problems walking?

Does the pet have sphincter tone? During a neurologic examination, one of the tests done is to lightly pinch (I use light pressure with forceps) the sides of the anus and see if it 'winks' back. If it winks back, that is evidence that the nerves are working.

Can radiographs (X-Rays) be taken? Sometimes puppies can have congenital issues like spina bifida, etc...

I have also worked with some very young boston terrier puppies that will poop while they walk and it be a difficult behavioral issue.

I hope this helps

Smiley14 July 22nd, 2009 10:09 PM

[QUOTE=Dr Lee;805307]I am sorry to hear about Nismo's problems. How old is Nismo? Is the rectal prolapse improving? What is being done to treat the rectal prolapse and the infection?

There are nerves that control the anal and bladder sphincters that come off of the spine. If there is neurologic damage or malformation then these can lead to problems. Since the nerves come off the spine, are there any problems walking?

Does the pet have sphincter tone? During a neurologic examination, one of the tests done is to lightly pinch (I use light pressure with forceps) the sides of the anus and see if it 'winks' back. If it winks back, that is evidence that the nerves are working.

Can radiographs (X-Rays) be taken? Sometimes puppies can have congenital issues like spina bifida, etc...

I have also worked with some very young boston terrier puppies that will poop while they walk and it be a difficult behavioral issue.

I hope this helps[/QUOTE]


Dr Lee, thank you so very much! I really appreciate your time and help. I sent your questions over to the foster mom. As far as I know, no trouble with walking. They thought and assumed it was a standard prolapse that could be corrected with surgery and dropped him off this morning for that surgery at a local vet in MI where the foster mom lives. They were shocked when the vet told them they think it's neurological and that nothing could be done. You would think they would still correct the prolapse, so that part confuses me. They want to get to a specialist as soon as they can as they know time can be of the essense. They've had over $10k in special needs rescue costs in the past month and so have to raise the funds first before they can do more to help him. In the meantime, are trying to find out as much information as possible. They were devastated to be told that "nothing could be done" and need to get a second opinion of an expert. Hopefully there is help for Nismo yet. He is a darling little puppy and is only 8 weeks old and 3.8 pounds. They just got him from the "breeder" (I use that term with sarcasm) on Monday so much is still unknown and in the initial stages at this point. I know he has no control and leaks poo and pee along with some blood, which they were told was from the irritation. I don't believe there has been any sign of improvement yet, but I don't think there's been enough time to really determine that yet either.

Smiley14 July 22nd, 2009 10:13 PM

[QUOTE=hazelrunpack;805298]I do know of a puppy that had a prolapsed anus, Smiley, but I'm not sure if that pup was hunching and squatting. The surgery [I]was[/I] done and I know it was successful, but I'll see if I can find out about behavior before the surgery was done and get back to you.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Hazel! In their previous experiences with prolapse, they've never run into this before. I'm hoping it's just bad information from that vet. So sad.

hazelrunpack July 22nd, 2009 10:23 PM

I just heard back. The pup didn't show any incontinence--but her case was much less severe, too. Only a small part of her rectum was prolapsed and there was never any real irritation before the surgery was done. So I guess there's nothing there in the way of enlightenment... :sad:

Is this puppy in MN? Have they tried a referral to the U of MN VTH?

Smiley14 July 22nd, 2009 10:27 PM

[QUOTE=hazelrunpack;805317]I just heard back. The pup didn't show any incontinence--but her case was much less severe, too. Only a small part of her rectum was prolapsed and there was never any real irritation before the surgery was done. So I guess there's nothing there in the way of enlightenment... :sad:

Is this puppy in MN? Have they tried a referral to the U of MN VTH?[/QUOTE]

Thanks for trying, Hazel! I REALLY appreciate it! They're in MI. Hopefully they can at least get him into a specialist for a second opinion/consult while they're raising the funds for a more expensive surgery (if one can even be done :sad:)

Dr Lee July 22nd, 2009 10:30 PM

Some rectal prolapses can be treated medically and some are treated both medically and surgically. If the prolapse gets really bad, it can be fatal. Once treated and managed, this part of the dog usually goes back to normal for the rest of their life (most of the time).

Smiley14 July 22nd, 2009 10:40 PM

[QUOTE=Dr Lee;805320]Some rectal prolapses can be treated medically and some are treated both medically and surgically. If the prolapse gets really bad, it can be fatal. Once treated and managed, this part of the dog usually goes back to normal for the rest of their life (most of the time).[/QUOTE]

Thank you again, Dr. Lee! This vet in MI led them to believe that if the cause is neurological, the surgery would be ineffective and nothing more could be done. They even cancelled the surgery today based on that assumption. It still seems odd to me they would come to that conclusion and go so far as not do surgery based on the sole observation he doesn't hunch to go and just leaks. Hopefully they can get him into another vet asap for a second opinion.

Smiley14 July 23rd, 2009 11:31 AM

They were able to take Nismo to a different vet this morning and here's the update from the foster mom:

[I]
Vets office said that they did an x-ray on Nismo and it was determined that it's either one or two of the back vertebra's (towards the end of his spine near his anal opening) that weren't formed correctly. They feel he has a mild case of spinal difda.(question spelling) They also said Nismo has no anal tone so a prolapse surgery will not work and will just come out again. He is at low risk of any urine infection, because he does dribble pee, and because he can't control his poo, his only risk would be that the prolapse tissue would dry up or maybe even a fly would land on his opening and lay an egg, not sure the odds on that happening.

Vets office feels there is nothing else they can do at this moment and suggests that we take Nismo to see a neurological specialist.[/I]

So at this point, they are going to raise the funds to get him to a specialist. I don't know anything about these kind of issues and if there is hope with a specialist or if Nismo will be in diapers for life or what his outcome will be. Hopefully they can get him into a specialist soon! Thank you Dr. Lee and Hazel again so much! Tammy (foster mom) was very grateful for you, Dr. Lee! It gave her hope to try for a second opinion and push for the x-ray. Thank you so much!

bendyfoot July 23rd, 2009 12:32 PM

can I xpost this on another board? I can ask my hcapp pets peoples...there's tons of neuro/diapery-types there, lots of experience...

or you can ask yourself at [url]www.handicappedpets.net[/url]

Smiley14 July 23rd, 2009 05:53 PM

[QUOTE=bendyfoot;805442]can I xpost this on another board? I can ask my hcapp pets peoples...there's tons of neuro/diapery-types there, lots of experience...

or you can ask yourself at [url]www.handicappedpets.net[/url][/QUOTE]


Oh, thank you so much!!! If you could cross-post, that would be much appreciated! I'll send the link to the foster mom too! Thank you!!!

They found a specialist who will do an initial consult for them on Monday and will let the rescue do a payment plan. GREAT news for little Nismo and hopefully they'll get good news from the appt too! They don't know if he'll just walk poorly as he develops or if he'll need diapers and wheelchair or if surgery can be done or not, so hopefully Monday will yield more answers. In any event, at least they are finally getting Nismo into the right people who can help and who will work with them with their budget. What a relief. Thank you all again so much for your help as well!

hazelrunpack July 23rd, 2009 11:13 PM

How exciting!! I hope the specialist can get him back on the right track. :grouphug: Luckily, he's found some angels! Nismo has had a rough start, now he deserves a long and healthy life!:goodvibes:

bendyfoot July 27th, 2009 08:34 AM

Some info for you Smiley, check your pms...

Smiley14 July 27th, 2009 05:56 PM

[QUOTE=bendyfoot;806857]Some info for you Smiley, check your pms...[/QUOTE]

Got it, thank you!!!!

Sad update for Nismo from the foster mom:

[I]Nismo went to see the neurological specialist today. Dr. Wolf did a few tests on Nismo to check reflexes in his back legs and around his spine. After he reviewed Dr. Wilson's findings and his tests, it was determined that nothing "surgically" can be done to help Nismo. He said we could do an MRI to see exactly the extend of his condition, but it would only give us more details on what we already know. There is no way of knowing if Nismo will loose function of his back legs, so based on that, I don't think their is any need spending the money on an MRI, unless he does eventually loose function of his back legs (at which time that can do a Tether Cord surgery).

Dr. Wolf felt that Nismo is completely incontinent. He also feels as if Nismo isn't releasing his pee as he should, and said he felt full which is a cause of concern that he might get an infection. I will continue to check his bladder to see if he needs to be manually expressed. I guess it's a good thing that I'm home during the day, because if needed, he will need to be expressed at least 4 times a day.
Anyone that sees this boy play, can agree with me that he has more energy then most other puppies. I'm seeking out an acupuncturist to see if they can do anything for him. If anything, maybe they can help avoid him from losing the function of his back legs, but with that said, I have seen dogs in those wheel chairs that are still really happy and loving.[/I]

So unfortunate no surgical option for Nismo. The rescue will continue to work with him and hopefully get him eventually ready for an adoption with a very special person who doesn't mind his special needs. He's such an adorable little boy! :lovestruck: But anyway, thank you all again so much for your help!!!

hazelrunpack July 28th, 2009 10:29 PM

Aw, poor Nismo! :sad:

:fingerscr that the acupuncture can help him out! He sounds like such a champ!

:goodvibes: for Nismo! I hope a special family comes along for this special boy soon!


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