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-   -   Getting a puppy (or kitten)? Please read! (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=6081)

Lucky Rescue August 3rd, 2004 11:49 AM

Getting a puppy (or kitten)? Please read!
 
Never buy a puppy or kitten at a pet store! These animals come from puppy and kitten mills and/or disreputable "backyard breeders" who breed ONLY for profit.

Don't be fooled by pet store staff saying they come from "responsible breeders". NO responsible breeder would even think of dumping their puppies/kittens at a pet store, to be sold to anyone who has the money!

Every time one of these animals is purchased it financially rewards and encourages the millers and perpetuates the incredible cruelty that is involved with producing the puppies and kittens!

Not sure what a puppy mill is?

[URL=http://www.nopuppymillscanada.ca/what_is_a_puppy_mill.htm]No Puppy Mills Canada[/URL]

sammiec August 3rd, 2004 11:51 AM

Great post Lucky!! :D

Luba August 3rd, 2004 12:52 PM

Tx LR :D Much needed

belly August 12th, 2004 12:59 AM

Pet Stores
 
My sister bought our dog from a pet store for $900 CDN. The pet store had all his papers. I recently discovered that my dog is mostly likely from a puppy mill. My sister thought that becasue the dog was registered by the American Kennel Club that meant he wasn't from a puppy mill, but in fact the American Kennel Club will registers dogs even if their from a puppy mill!

Lucky Rescue August 14th, 2004 06:31 PM

[QUOTE]but in fact the American Kennel Club will registers dogs even if their from a puppy mill![/QUOTE]

Exactly!! AKC or CKC papers are basically worthless, as ALL they mean is that the parents of the puppies were purebred, and of the same breed. Doesn't matter if they they are kept in filthy conditions and abused, or bred in mills. Doesn't matter if they were extremely poor specimens, or not breeding quality in any way.

The AKC and CKC do NOTHING to discourage backyard breeding and puppy mills who are churning out tons of puppies with all kinds of genetic defects from being badly bred, and inbred. :mad:

It's time for these organizations to take a stand against this sort of thing.

Luba August 14th, 2004 06:45 PM

IMHO the CKC AKC have had their documents fraudulently reproduced (according to a HS cruelty investigator)

So what you even think may be certificates could even be fraudulent.

Cflat August 15th, 2004 08:24 AM

My 2 cents
 
I would like to add to this thread to stay away from ads in newspapers where people are selling puppies that they have purposely bred (again as Luba said these are BYB/Millers). A reputable breeder does not sell puppies in the newspaper, they don't have to. Reputable breeders have waiting lists. I don't believe anyone of any reputation needs to breed period, but that is another topic altogether :p

krdahmer September 21st, 2004 11:42 AM

Well I noticed that my *******'s has been selling kittens for about the last year or so, they look well taken care of at the store but I am sure are coming from a BYB or just an irresponsible pet owner. They sell them for about $20, but they say the cat is free, you are paying for the 'starter' kit, and the kittens are dewormed (no doubt with something from the store). I have been buying my cat food there for years and they have always had fish and birds but not kittens. The kittens are not always available but I have seen them about 3 or 4 times this year (which made me think BYB). I went to check out Paulmacs.com and found that they advertise there that they do not sell Cats or dogs and instead encourage you to visit your local shelter. So, I started calling the main office, got transferred twice and have now left a message for someone and await a call back.

There is another store here in the falls at Niagara Square called **** and I am positive that they are dealing with Mills and/or BYB, the animals they have there look so sad and poorly taken care of, but the up side is it seems to be the only one of its kind here in the falls. The others here and in St. Catherines only adopt out their critters and are often in association with a rescue or foster organization.

debanneball September 21st, 2004 12:33 PM

[QUOTE=LuckyRescue]Never buy a puppy or kitten at a pet store!

:eek: Sorry Lucky, but I did. One Saturday my husband and I were at PJ's, buying fish food, looking around, I saw these 2 seal point kittens, and one of them was just terrified, crouching in the corner. It bothered me so much that on Monday morning, I called, and the kitten was still there. I left work, went and got her, took her home. Today, Rose is 11 years, and doing fine. :D Correct, I may have paid too much, but what else could I do...leave her there and have nightmares.....

Lucky Rescue September 21st, 2004 12:45 PM

[QUOTE]but what else could I do[/QUOTE]

I understand, and this is why I never go into any pet stores that sell puppies and kittens. You can get everything you need at pet supply stores, and there is no temptation to financially reward and encourage these backyard breeders who don't care how much suffering they cause.

You can also write to the petstores and tell them just why you will no longer buy their products.;)

mastifflover September 21st, 2004 12:50 PM

My only defense for ******* is if like the Pet Valu around the corner from me they have cat adoptions monthly all the cats are from the Toronto Cat rescue they do not sell pets in the store. The owner said he would never allow pets to be sold in his store he refuses to put money in the pockets of BYB or Puppymills.

krdahmer September 21st, 2004 11:11 PM

The *******'s here was in fact selling the kittens without the permission of their head office, the man I spoke to there said it is only acceptable if it is a situation such as in Toronto where they are adoptions only through an organization (the pet store just provides food and litter and space). The owner no doubt was trying to be helpful by helping these kittens find homes as he is a very nice man and his staff treated the kittens great. I actually went in to the store this afternoon and overheard that they were already contacting people on some sort of kitten list. So I guess the man from corporate nipped this problem in the bud. I just hope that this owner does decide to align himself with the local Humane Society because they really do need more space for these little critters.

Writing4Fun September 22nd, 2004 09:21 AM

Well done, Krdahmer! Very nice of you to get the owner educated in ways he can better serve the cat overpopulation issue! :D

jackieb September 24th, 2004 10:55 AM

cats and dogs for sale in shops
 
Havent seen dogs and cats in shops till we immigrated here it isnt allowed in England althought they can sell some reptiles and small animals fish etc. Couldnt get over the shops selling cats and dogs well puppies and kittens and yes they are cute i know avoiding the shops as my boys pester me to buy them and i wouldnt. I personally dont think you should buy a puppy especially without seeing both parents and i wouldnt. I am doing research at the moment i a hope to rescue or purchase a english mastiff or both maybe.

mastifflover October 13th, 2004 08:31 AM

True Jackieb these are dogs and cats come from backyard breeders and puppymills. Disgusting that the stores support these breeders by selling there animals for inflated prices and bad health

lilith_rizel October 13th, 2004 05:42 PM

Lucky,
My husband and I just read the link on your post. How horrible!! I almost cried it was so sad. We noticed it said puppy mills in Canada. Do they have puppy mills in the USA as well? My husband is curious, because if there is, he wants to try to do something about it.

krdahmer October 14th, 2004 12:21 AM

OK...now I have gone into another PaulMac's and they were selling yet another kitten, this time a little older (looks maybe even old enough to be the mom of the last batch), but with a note on the cage explaining how much responsibility comes with owning a pet...oh and most importantly that for your $20 you get a starter kit! :mad: Grrr...maybe time for another call!

Lucky Rescue October 14th, 2004 09:18 AM

[QUOTE]Do they have puppy mills in the USA as well? [/QUOTE]

There are many THOUSANDS of puppy mills in the United States. Many are concentrated in Missouri and Pennsylvania. The Amish are big time puppy millers.

[URL=http://www.hsus.org/ace/Article_Printer_Friendly?Content_ID=11797]Puppy mills USA[/URL]

lilith_rizel October 14th, 2004 10:37 AM

Thanks Lucky,
I will let everyone that I know about this!

lexah October 27th, 2004 01:08 PM

I know that if you purchase a dog from a pet store then you are indirectly supporting puppy mills.... but what happens to these poor dogs otherwise? Its not their fault they are in the shop.

It makes me so sad, its a lose-lose situation.

Buy the dog, you support the puppy mill. Don't buy the dog and it will probably go to some ignorant owner who is only buying it to shut their kid up.

CaneCorso81 October 31st, 2004 05:58 PM

No reputable breeders will breed mixed breeds.
 
[QUOTE=parcc]can anyone suggest a good breeder / somoene who just does it for the love of dogs for mini schnoodles / (mini ?) golden phoo's????

thanks :) :)[/QUOTE]


You have to do research on breeders and ask many questions related to parents temperament, health guarantee such as OFA, CERF, SAS, and health problems, etc.. If a breeder tells you that her dogs don't have health problems, she is lying. Run away from this breeder period! A reputable breeder will inform you what kind of health problem do they see in their lines, etc. This is called homework.. It is your responisble to do homework and ask many questions. You should never depend on your friends or strangers about who is a reputable breeder, you are the one who make the decision to know if this person is a reputable breeder or not. Always ask for a proof of OFA, Cerf, or penn hips, etc...
Don't trust what a breeder tells you that she has OFA papers, etc. You have get the ofa numbers and search it up online.

I want to let you know that reputable breeders will never breed mixed breeds such as schnoodles, peekapoos, labdoodles, etc..

CaneCorso81 October 31st, 2004 06:08 PM

[QUOTE=lexah]I know that if you purchase a dog from a pet store then you are indirectly supporting puppy mills.... but what happens to these poor dogs otherwise? Its not their fault they are in the shop.

It makes me so sad, its a lose-lose situation.

Buy the dog, you support the puppy mill. Don't buy the dog and it will probably go to some ignorant owner who is only buying it to shut their kid up.[/QUOTE]

Yeah... If a person bought a puppy from petstore, the store will make money and fill in another sad/sick puppy in. It is sad, but this is the only way to put the pet store out of business by not buying their animals, products, etc...

Keep in mind some pet stores were sucessfully put out of business.

fuhggers December 31st, 2004 01:35 AM

Sorry.. My opinion..
 
Sorry folks. You have a wonderful community here, and I can tell you all care about your pets very much, but I cannot agree with everything you all are saying.

When it comes to breeders, I agree with your comments, get the papers, get your references, do your homework. Make sure your breeder is reputable, or go somewhere else.

As for pet stores, it is impossible to lump them all together. Yes, some of the pet stores out there, unfortunately a LARGE number of them, do match what you are saying about them. There are however, decent pet stores around. Once again, you must do your homework before shopping with them. Just like any other business: some get away with bad things, and they all get a bad name because of it. I have worked in a number of pet stores myself, and yes I have seen many things I do not agree with. I will not name any names however. I have seen many things that I DO agree with, that are common misconceptions by customers and the general public as well. Don't be misled by silly rumours and heresay.

Just because a dog in a pet store comes down with a disease, does not mean they were born in a puppy mill. If your child goes to school sick, are you automatically accused of child abuse? I don't think so. Even puppies are not immune, with or without their shots, with or without proper care.

As for cats in pet stores, often they Do come from irresponsible pet owners. I for one an a BIG advocate of neutering your animal. However, if you do have an accident, and your pet gets pregnant, would you rather have a responsible pet store take care of them, expose them to the higher traffic and get them a home, after having them checked out by a veterinarian? Or would you rather give them away at a yard sale, with no guarantees, no shots, no background, and not much chance of finding homes for them in a short time? How many people do you know who can actually handle 8 kittens or 8 or 9 puppies in a small house?

Yes these people should be slapped for allowing their pet to run free in heat, but those animals need homes too. Simple fact is, if the pet store IS legitimate, and will take them to a veterinarian for shots and inspections, they can expose the animal to a much higher volume of traffic than any simple consumer, and can find these animals homes faster.

Just because a store deals with a homeless shelter and adopts animals out, does not give them any more credit to their cause. Do some research on many of these shelters, including the SPCA, and you will find as bad of a history of complaints as many of the pets stores you all are complaining about. In many cases, I'm sure you will find worse.

Many complaints pet stores do recieve are from well meaning people who do not stop to ask a staff member about a problem. I have seen the SPCA called into a store because there is a small peice of fecal matter in the bottom of the puppies kennel. Most people do not understand that these puppies are young enough they have not been house trained as of yet, and they do tend to make messes in their kennel, which staff will attempt to clean up as soon as possible. Immediately is not always possible, as any retail worker will tell you.

Now I am not defending any specific pet store, nor am I condoning the practice of pet stores selling puppies and kittens, etc. I will never condone the running of puppy mills, and I will be right there beside any one of you to shut these illegal operations down. However, You should take each case as an individual case. Lumping EVERY pet store together is like saying all Men are bad because your boyfriend cheated on you. It's impossible to rate every store based on the bad ones you hear about. You notice good pet stores with reputable practices don't often make the news.

All I can say is keep an open mind, don't automatically assume everyone is bad, and DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE BUYING ANY ANIMAL!!!

Cflat January 6th, 2005 06:48 PM

A reputable pet store would never sell animals and a reputable breeder would never allow them to.
Unless you "need" to show a dog there is no reason to buy one from anyone. I can pick you out plenty of awesome dogs almost any day at almost any shelter.

lil_kirk January 6th, 2005 07:02 PM

No reputable breeder would ever put their puppies in a pet store window--to sit on a grated floor for days and nights on end.

No CKC breeder is permitted to sell their puppies to pet stores.

No one who truly cares about their breeding program would put their puppies in pet stores to be bought impulsively by any Joe Blow who walks in and has enough credit on their card.

WeeZee March 6th, 2005 08:47 AM

I used to go to the pet store in the mall to buy toys - no longer
I stick to our home-town guy and bypass the new **** (or whatever) too.
why ...
One day I was visiting a friend at the mall pet store. she said let's go in the back, I am taking a break.
To my horror, the 'seats' they used to sit on and hold their ASHTRAY was on top of animal crates .... with kitens in them!!! The kittens were in there because they had some sort of ailment and were waiting for a clean-bill before they could be put in the window again. 4 butts burning in the tray and I hightailed it out of there. (the only thing the manager said to me was that the staff room was restricted to staff)

I wanted to take every single one of them home. I was so sad for so long I just had to stop thinking about pet shop animals. [B]Advice[/B] - take a look in their back room! Find out what conditions those precious things must live in when the store closes and you're not looking.

The home-town guy has a great store ... the employee's personal dogs roam around and it is a great treat for my dog to go and visit.

joeysmama November 18th, 2005 10:33 PM

Getting a puppy (or kitten)? Please read!
 
When we finally decided to get a dog we were adamant about it being a rescue dog. Our kids were in high school and we knew they were responsible so our only condition was that it be rescued from a no-kill facility.

When I think I can, I'll post about how Joey touched our lives. On the day he died they must have heard my wails in the next state. I can't stop crying. I miss my baby dog so much !!

And of course I said I would never get another dog--no one could replace him. But there is an empty space in this house that needs to be filled with a furry. When we passed the pet store at the mall and saw baby dogs in the window it broke my heart and my husband said we could start calling breeders. We just wanted the experience of a puppy---although I know that our rescue days are not over.

Anyway....here's my problem. I was working with local kennel clubs trying to find a breeder with a litter in the near future and haven't had any luck yet. One breeder I'd heard good things about said that he knew someone who would be breeding in about 9 weeks and then another 9 before the puppies would go home.

Well my husband brought me home a puppy. And I'm sure it's from a pet store. I absolutely ABHOR pet stores!! I agree that no one who cares about animals, no one who has a conscience, could send their puppies to live in cages, to stand on wire, to have almost no human contact except from the parents who indulge their kids by letting them take the puppies out. And then I don't think there is any supervision by the workers to be sure that the animals are being handled correctly.

The day we got Joey there was a family looking at him when we got there and they were told that they weren't a good match and they werent allowed to take him. Those kids were rough and the rescue agency was looking to be sure these dogs found good homes. The stores dont care.

In the stores these puppies and kittens are just merchandise and they want to move the merchandise.

So...what do I do? My husband is a sweetheart and he thinks that he is making a grand gesture to heal my broken heart. He has never felt that anyone should buy a dog from a store OR a breeder. He's always said that there are plenty of dogs out there. So I think he just wants, somehow to make things right. That guy thing of trying to fix things. I can not take this little guy back--could you put him back in a cage after he's been freed? And our money is very tight right now after having spent THOUSANDS on Joey when he was sick. It's very upsetting to me to have our money spent there.

Bottom line---I love my husband, and I am growing to love the new baby dog. But I'm embarassed about it. I'm truly just embarassed. I think when I add a rescue dog to the family it will make me feel that I've evened the score somehow.

Anyway--thank you for listening. I love this website because it's such a supportive community and you all feel the same way I do about behaving responsibly towards the creatures in your care. People thought we were crazy for taking Joey to specialists and spending money on tests and hospital stays. But when I found this website I got wonderful advice and even, at the suggestion of some members here, found a chiropractor for him. And he came to the house. There was a point where we knew it wouldn't alleviate his problem but it did alleviate the pressure and was kind of a treat for him so we continued with the visits until he was hospitalized.

Sorry this is so long. I had to get this off my chest. Thank you for listening.

Prin November 18th, 2005 11:04 PM

I would tell your hubby about pet stores and puppy mills, outside the context of your doggy. I'd say, "Hey did you hear about the puppy mill busts this past week? I'm learning so much about them and apparently, pet stores buy from puppy mills. Let's promise never buy from a pet store ever again, ok?" :)

You have the doggy. The best thing you can do now, is do what you are doing: give him a happy home with love and care and health.:)

Lucky Rescue November 19th, 2005 10:08 AM

Of course I wouldn't take the puppy back to be resold to anyone with money in their pockets, or to end up dumped at a shelter because it's shelf life has expired and it's not profitable anymore.

But, in your case, this is how petstores sell puppies. Many people cannot/won't wait for a puppy from a reputable breeder or rescue and want what they want right now. You can see how it happens. Your husband KNEW all about the abuse and mills, yet got one there anyway. Many people do not know.

What you can do is spread the word about where petstore puppies come from and urge everyone you know NOT to patronize these stores at all and to tell the store WHY they will not shop there. Petstores care only about profit/loss, so the only way to put pressure on them is to cut their profits.

You could also volunteer to help a rescue. There are many ways to do this, incuding fostering animals, helping at adoption events or fundraisers etc and your help would be so appreciated!!:)

joeysmama November 21st, 2005 10:16 AM

Getting a puppy (or kitten)? Please read!
 
Thank you for your responses. Prin, I did just what you suggested. I brought the subject up in the context of dog food, buying him a coat etc. I told him that I would feel better if the store didn't get any more of our money and I told him that they buy from puppy mills. And then he said "Oh no--he's a purebred, he has papers." (It turns out his aversion to buying a dog was a monetary thing--he always had a houseful of dogs growing up and they just found their way there--he didn't see a reason to spend money. That's my guy !) So later I showed him a few posts in a kind of offhanded way and the next time I mentioned that the puppy should have a sweater he said something about driving over to Target.

Deb, I would LOVE to get involved with a rescue organization. I don't want to foster until this guy is housebroken but I'm going to ask about adoption days. I stil have the info on the rescue organization that saved Joey. I always hear from them about this time of year too. I'll contact them ! Thank you for suggesting that !


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