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-   -   Why spay/neuter your pet? (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=58823)

suparnikkay December 5th, 2008 02:44 PM

Why spay/neuter your pet?
 
I'm not saying it's a bad idea, and I definitely agree it's the responsible thing to do. My question goes out to those that feel it's irresponsible not to spay/neuter your pets. Why do you feel it's so important to do that to your pets when you don't feel the need to do it to yourself? Think of all the starving children in the world. Do we need to populate the world more? Again I'm definitely for spaying and neutering your pets but I'm just curious what people's thoughts are on the subject.

BenMax December 5th, 2008 02:53 PM

For me it's because I work in rescue and also with shelters. I see how many are killed per day, per week, per month, per year. I am only aware of this death rate within a small region. I was also on the phone with another rescue in Ontario last night that was quoting the euthansia rate there. If you add it up millions of animals are killed all because they were born and sold to people that did not make a life committment to that animal. Then there are the 'accidents' that happen and then again numbers added to the death rate. I cannot even imagine what happens in rural areas.

I guess after 15 years of trying desperately to save them I am all for spay/neuter. I also believe that everyone should be obliged to do so if they are not reputable breeder.

There are those that disagree with me and that is fine. I am in the trenches trying to save them and I also SEE the ones I cannot. This will haunt me forever.

There are medical reasons as well, but my reasons are based on the living, dying and dead.

bendyfoot December 5th, 2008 02:55 PM

I don't think there's a relevant comparison between the sterilization of companion animals and human (over)population. :shrug:

BenMax December 5th, 2008 03:01 PM

[QUOTE=bendyfoot;707177]I don't think there's a relevant comparison between the sterilization of companion animals and human (over)population. :shrug:[/QUOTE]

No there is not but I can only speak about animals. Humans are not my thing...well you know what I mean Bendyfoot.

bendyfoot December 5th, 2008 03:03 PM

I hear ya. Your post is right on. I just think the OP should consider rephrasing the question if this is really a discussion they want to have.

rainbow December 5th, 2008 03:06 PM

I think it needs to be rephrased as well as I find it a little confusing. :shrug:

suparnikkay December 5th, 2008 03:29 PM

You make a very good point. I believe that animals should have some of the same rights that people have. In my opinion, putting an animal to sleep is no better than murdering a human being. I feel there should be better programs to assist shelters.

suparnikkay December 5th, 2008 03:30 PM

What's confusing about it? I really don't see the difference between an animals life and a human beings life. In my eyes they have the same value.

ancientgirl December 5th, 2008 03:36 PM

For me, it's two things. 1. I believe my pets are healthier because they are spayed and neutered and the future health benefits and keeping them healthy, and 2. I see so many homeless animals who don't have homes because someone didn't spay or neuter a pet and they couldn't/wouldn't take responsibility to keep the litters that were not wanted.

And as for me adding to the worlds population, at this point in my life I just don't have the patience or the willingness to have a child.

BenMax December 5th, 2008 03:36 PM

To weigh the birthrate of humans and animals and what we should do about them is separate. To me, these are two separate issues. Since this is a forum about animals, I address the animal issues. Humans can take care of themselves and I certainly cannot shed any light on what we would do in regards to the human over population.

babymomma December 5th, 2008 03:48 PM

Humans can use condoms, birth control ect. As far as I know, S/N is the only form of Birth control for animals.

These people that are overpopulating in other countries, do it out of choice, animals however, cannot control themselves when another animal is in heat. They are 2 VERY different subjects, and quite frankly i think they should be kept as 2 different subjects.


I see more need of animals being S/N, then humans, because, no matter how populated the earth gets, humans wil never be "humanely" Euthanized, like perfectly healthy animals are everyday.

Diamondsmum December 5th, 2008 03:50 PM

[QUOTE=suparnikkay;707214]What's confusing about it? I really don't see the difference between an animals life and a human beings life. In my eyes they have the same value.[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=suparnikkay;707161]I'm not saying it's a bad idea, and I definitely agree it's the responsible thing to do. My question goes out to those that feel it's irresponsible not to spay/neuter your pets. Why do you feel it's so important to do that to your pets when you don't feel the need to do it to yourself? Think of all the starving children in the world. Do we need to populate the world more? Again I'm definitely for spaying and neutering your pets but I'm just curious what people's thoughts are on the subject.[/QUOTE]

The confusing part I found was Your post seems pro-spay/neuter [QUOTE=suparnikkay;707161][B][I]I'm not saying it's a bad idea, and I definitely agree it's the responsible thing to do.Again I'm definitely for spaying and neutering your pets but I'm just curious what people's thoughts are on the subject[/I][/B].[/QUOTE]but you state:

[B][I]My question goes out to those that feel it's irresponsible not to spay/neuter your pets. Why do you feel it's so important to do that to your pets when you don't feel the need to do it to yourself? Think of all the starving children in the world[/I].[/B]

So IMHO that is confusing?? No?

babymomma December 5th, 2008 03:54 PM

Yea, uh, Im not going to spay myself because of the irresponsible people out there that cannot afford a child.. Thats a very Crazy statement that you've made and is in NO way at all, even remotely close to S/N a animal! Im appaulled that you would even say that!:eek:


No to mention the fact that, Humans will ussually have 1 child every 9 months (Most ussually stop at 3-4 children) Where as dogs cats ect. Can have 4-12 babies TWICE a year! Totally different!

suparnikkay December 5th, 2008 04:01 PM

The world is overpopulated with people as much as it is overpopulated with cats/dogs. The reason I bring this up is get people thinking. I'm not trying to say that I don't agree that spaying/neutering your pets is the responsible thing to do I'm not saying that we should do that to a human being either. But I feel that this subject needs to be explored.

They are definitely two different subjects but at the same time they do go hand in hand. They have their similarities in many many ways. And for those of you that think that overpopulation only happens in third world countries, think again. How many homeless/orphaned children do you think there are in the United States? Do some research.

suparnikkay December 5th, 2008 04:10 PM

[QUOTE=babymomma;707224]No to mention the fact that, Humans will ussually have 1 child every 9 months (Most ussually stop at 3-4 children) Where as dogs cats ect. Can have 4-12 babies TWICE a year! Totally different![/QUOTE]

Actually, the majority of cats and dogs don't even get the opportunity to have babies and there are parents out there on welfare with ten children.

Of course you may not be one of those parents but you're also not the type of person to let your pets have babies and give them up to a shelter.

Diamondsmum December 5th, 2008 04:17 PM

[QUOTE=suparnikkay;707235][B]Actually, the majority of cats and dogs don't even get the opportunity to have babies[/B] and there are parents out there on welfare with ten children.

Of course you may not be one of those parents but you're also not the type of person to let your pets have babies and give them up to a shelter.[/QUOTE]


Ummmm have you heard of puppy mills? 100+ dogs having puppies in deplorable conditions? I think there was recently 3 busted in the news.

Kiiji.ca at moment has IN ONLY Toronto 5185 Puppy for sale posts now if there say a minimum of 3 puppies per litter... That isnt Majority of cats & dogs having babies?? That is only DOGS.

babymomma December 5th, 2008 04:20 PM

[QUOTE=suparnikkay;707235]Actually, the majority of cats and dogs don't even get the opportunity to have babies and [SIZE="4"][FONT="Arial Black"]there are parents out there on welfare with ten children. [/FONT][/SIZE]
Of course you may not be one of those parents but you're also not the type of person to let your pets have babies and give them up to a shelter.[/QUOTE]
[SIZE="4"][FONT="Arial Black"]Their choice![/FONT][/SIZE]Dogs and cats dont have that choice. If they did, do you honeslty think that they would make the choice to have 12 or more babies yearly? And BTW- Alot of people on welfare that have 10 children (Around here anyways) They have them for a bigger check.

Accually im not a parent at all. At 15 years old i have better sense then most parents out there though.

Masha December 5th, 2008 04:22 PM

I believe that this is not about human versus animal, rather about the circumstances in which animals find themselves. If a human was told that he/she can NEVER have s*x for fun or to reproduce, yet they still had all the urges and hormones, they would be uncomfortable and stressed all their life. And if someone were to say ‘there is this procedure, its safe, simple and even has health benefits, and it will eliminate all your urges and frustrations due to hormones” I am certain that majority of people would say “YES PLEASE!!!!” Just like we choose to have our wisdom teeth removed to eliminate the complications that can arise from them. We don’t need wisdom teeth, all they do is give us headaches and created problems, so we remove them. Same thing with animals and their reproductive organs, they don’t need them in this life, it just creates problems for them.

14+kitties December 5th, 2008 04:25 PM

These are my thoughts.
Dogs and cats are not capable of thinking logically, as humans are. Or at least they arenít capable on the same wavelength as humans. They do not know that if they have two or three litters a year that the probability of those litters ending up living a full, complete, safe life is not good. Humans [B]should[/B] be able to distinguish that.

I am more familiar with the cat so will address them. Cats have a litter and six months later forget that those babies are theirs. Yes, they recognize the fact that they know that kitten but they forget itís theirs. Separate a cat from her kittens for a few months and then reintroduce them. Watch the momís reaction. She wants nothing to do with the kitten. Unless itís an intact male. Then she will mate with it.

A human can (or should) be able to make a decision to have sex or not. We do not have intercourse only to reproduce. We also are not capable of spitting out 6 to 14 babies a year. A female cat can and will go into estrus at any time that an intact male is around. It does not matter that she just had a litter of kittens. Often she will abandon that litter once she becomes pregnant again. Or, worse, she will kill and eat them. Letís hope humans are above that.

Can you imagine the euthanasia rates if all cats are allowed to reproduce whenever the spirit moves them? The illnesses, diseases, cats dying at a young age from mammary and testicular cancer? Can you? Do you want to?

And lastly, as so many others have already said, live their lives and see how quickly you decide to get your cats/dogs fixed. You get the 3 AM phone call to come take a dog away from someone who is beating the crap out of it. Or the call to pick up a litter of kittens abandoned on the side of the road. Walk in BenMaxís shoes for one day. Visit some shelters where they are about to put down 100 cats or more because they have no homes for them. Listen to some of the horror stories then decide if your dog/cat should be fixed. Heck, come visit me for the morning when I am feeding my crew.

We all value our petsí lives. We do what is best for them. We get them fixed to extend their lives and to stop the madness.

Oh, and I AM fixed! I had my three children and made a decision to have no more. Cats and dogs canít do that.

Bearsmom December 5th, 2008 04:33 PM

[QUOTE=14+kitties;707251]Oh, and I AM fixed! I had my three children and made a decision to have no more. Cats and dogs canít do that.[/QUOTE]

Well stated, 14+. I was going to post that my pets are fixed, as am I.:thumbs up

The rest of the stuff, I can't follow the thread/question because I'm just too g*ddamned tired tonight.

suparnikkay December 5th, 2008 04:40 PM

RE: 14+kitties

Thanks for your response, I think it's the most thought out so far.

Again I'd like to reiterate the fact that I do not disagree with spaying/neutering your pets. I have two kittens myself that are going in to the vet next week to get fixed. I think more can be done to care for abandoned animals and I don't think that all animals need to be spayed/neutered. But that is a personal opinion.

The reason I brought up this topic was not to say that spaying or neutering your cat is a bad idea, or that human beings shouldn't have children. I just think that this topic needs to be explored. I think the world needs to change in many many ways and the first step to change to ... well discussion, thinking things through etc.

There are a lot of unexplored questions. For example, what are your thoughts on breeders? I think there should be laws against that type of thing. People shouldn't be able to make money off of selling a living creature.

suparnikkay December 5th, 2008 04:45 PM

[QUOTE=Diamondsmum;707242]Ummmm have you heard of puppy mills? 100+ dogs having puppies in deplorable conditions? I think there was recently 3 busted in the news.

Kiiji.ca at moment has IN ONLY Toronto 5185 Puppy for sale posts now if there say a minimum of 3 puppies per litter... That isnt Majority of cats & dogs having babies?? That is only DOGS.[/QUOTE]

I think that's a very ignorant statement to make, yes it's true about puppy mills. But those are bad people doing bad things. The same thing could technically happen to human beings however we have better laws in place to protect human beings. I don't think the issue with puppy mills is that the animals are not spayed/neutered, the issue is that there are not better laws in place to protect those animals.

Masha December 5th, 2008 04:47 PM

[QUOTE=suparnikkay;707269]People shouldn't be able to make money off of selling a living creature.[/QUOTE]


Truly ethical breeders spend so much time, energy and money on breeding the dogs that they usually do not even manage to break even. These people do it for their love of the breed not for money, the money just helps them cover some of their many costs.

However, there should be laws to regulate the breeding of cats and dogs to help prevent BYB and puppy mills.

suparnikkay December 5th, 2008 04:48 PM

If the world is so overpopulated, is it ethical?

Bearsmom December 5th, 2008 05:03 PM

Is the world ethical? No. Is speutering ethical? I believe so. Should some people not have children? Yes.

I'm unsure of what your point is. Is it that you don't think breeders should be in business? Have you ever purchased a purebred dog? Perhaps you should make a point of shadowing a truly ethical breeder and check out the amount of dedication and work that goes into raising truly purebred animals.

suparnikkay December 5th, 2008 05:37 PM

[QUOTE=Bearsmom;707299]Is the world ethical? No. Is speutering ethical? I believe so. Should some people not have children? Yes.

I'm unsure of what your point is. Is it that you don't think breeders should be in business? Have you ever purchased a purebred dog? Perhaps you should make a point of shadowing a truly ethical breeder and check out the amount of dedication and work that goes into raising truly purebred animals.[/QUOTE]


okokok, so let me just make sure I understand you correctly. What you're saying is that spaying / neutering your pet is a MUST unless you're an ethical breeder. Correct? ... Doesn't seem right to me somehow.

I've already made my point. I don't think everyone should agree or think the way I think. I just believe that being a responsible human being involves thinking things through and making responsible changes.

want4rain December 5th, 2008 05:40 PM

i didnt read through everyone elses posts but my initial thought (before i go cook dinner) is that animals reproduce compulsively to pass on genes, humans on the other hand have generations of knowledge and intelligence to pass on.

sorry if thats confusing but i had to get that out before busying myself with other things for the night. if i come up with more ill post it!!!

to say though, i value the company of an animal more so than most people i have met.

-ashley

Karin December 5th, 2008 10:23 PM

[QUOTE=Bearsmom;707264]Well stated, 14+. I was going to post that my pets are fixed, as am I.:thumbs up

The rest of the stuff, I can't follow the thread/question because I'm just too g*ddamned tired tonight.[/QUOTE]

I too, am spayed, had my rabies vax's and awaiting adoption.

All that aside. Spaying & neutering makes a healthier, happier pet. An added plus..by spaying/neutering, you can rule out hormonal cancers that can and most likely WILL happen in their lifetime. Especially in pure breeds.
I do not need to go into other details about the unwanted pets since others have already covered this.
Animals are a luxury that we lovers indulge ourselves in. Comparing human vs. pets is , well, apples and oranges.
I have my own opinion about the human part of this thread, I am not here for that, it is a pet forum.

marko December 5th, 2008 10:40 PM

I'm glad to see this thread is generally civil even though the topic is pretty warm.

I'm following this one...and suparnikkay - you are new but you should know straight up that vast majority of regular members are very much pro-spay neuter.

Since this is more of an opinion issue it's better suited to the off topic forum, so I'm moving it there.

thx
Marko

kathryn December 5th, 2008 10:58 PM

Hm... well my house would probably get a little out of control and a bit smelly if I let 3 unspayed females and 7 intact males running around.

I mean.... would YOU come over my house if my cats weren't fixed? My house would REEEEEK from the males spraying.. plus my numbers would go up awfully quick... start with 10 inside and I'd be up to 100 in no time. Not to mention all but 1 of my cats are related to each other.... ewww inbreeding!

Plus cats are happier and healthier when they are fixed. My cat Socks wasn't fixed when I first found her as a stray and she quickly got pregnant.

I mean, my entire feral cat colony outback and 10/11 of my cats are direct descendants of ONE female cat (named Momma!) who was at one point either lost or abandoned... more likely tossed out.


So yeah... and I fix my feral kitties as well and when I first moved into my house there were probably between 30 and 40 cats outback. The nice ones were adopted out, I took in the rest of the nice or semi-nice ones, and there feral/unsociable ones were all spayed or neutered plus vaccines. I also give them flea treatments when I can and dewormers in their foods from time to time to keep everyone happy and healthy! Now there are a total of 5 completely feral, 1 semi-feral and 1 friendly feral outback.

Spaying and neutering was a very simple answer to all the problems in my neighborhood :thumbs up All the kitties are so happy and healthy now and no fighting!


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