Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca

Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca (http://www.pets.ca/forum/index.php)
-   General Forum for cats and dogs (http://www.pets.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Cat obstructed bile duct (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=57104)

2badcats October 1st, 2008 07:47 PM

Cat obstructed bile duct
 
Joined this forum hoping someone may have had similar experience and some suggestions.

My 15 year old cat has a mass obstructing the bile duct on his liver, so toxins aren't being removed from his blood among other things. And he is jaundiced.

Although his behaviour is normal right now (he's just yellowish), the Vet thinks he may not live more than a month more. However there is an outside chance that his liver is swollen because of a bad reaction to flea spray, which caused it to swell, which moved the mass to obstruct the duct - a week ago he was fine, so it happened quite suddenly even though the mass must have been there a few months or a couple of years.

So the longshot is this: if we can keep his blood toxicity down enough for the liver to un-swell as the insecticide irritation fades, the mass may resume its old position NOT obstructing the duct. Its a question of whether we can keep his blood functional long enough to prevent other catastrophic organ failures.

So my question is - has anyone else had a similar experience, and/or does anyone have real experience with supplements or foods that would help keep his blood clear (or at least mitigate toxins)? The Vet didn't suggest anything regarding diet, which struck me as strange when I thought about it this evening, but I'll ask more tomorrow. But the Vet doesn't seem to see much hope.

And for anyone who finds themselves trying to get rid of fleas - don't buy those cheap sprays and collars - the insecticides they use are not really safe. There are oral medications which are completely safe, having been through this I'm surprised companies are allowed to sell that stuff.

[url]http://www.pets.ca/forum/images/smilies/cat.gif[/url]

growler~GateKeeper October 1st, 2008 11:16 PM

Was there xrays done to determine the size & placement of the mass? Were you given options regarding surgery to remove the mass or does the vet think it is connected to or surrounding organs?

Has the vet mentioned kidney failure? The toxins not being removed from the body are going somewhere and the liver & the kidneys are the organs that deal with waste removal.

Has your cat had blood & urine work done recently?

I've never had liver issues in my cats, but my grrl has kidney failure which is being supported through a raw meat diet and kidney specific supplements from Standard Process.

Speak to your vet about their liver support specific supplements [URL="http://www.standardprocess.com/display/VeterinaryCatalog.spi?ID=348"]Standard Process Feline Hepatic Support[/URL], [URL="http://www.standardprocess.com/display/VeterinaryCatalog.spi?ID=351"]Standard Process Feline Whole Body Support[/URL] is also a good overall support supplement.

You may also wish to speak to your vet about supplementing with [URL="http://www.vetriscience.com/nucat.php"]Nu Cat Vitamins[/URL] and [URL="http://www.fslabs.com/vitamins-supplements/aangamik-dmg-300mg-liquid.php"]DMG supplement[/URL]

Some info on Liver disease in cats
[url]http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00113.htm[/url]

Love4himies October 2nd, 2008 06:22 AM

I am sorry I don't have any advice for you, but do want to offer you a :2huggers: and send some :goodvibes: your way.

2badcats October 3rd, 2008 06:29 AM

Thanks for info on foods Growler.

We had ultrasound not Xray, and there's nobody around here who can do the surgery, closest is a day's drive which the cat won't enjoy, and given his age it's not certain they'd operate. Our vet doesn't think he'd survive the surgery. Even a biopsy would be invasive and can't be done around here.

So we're not sure his kidney has failed, but the effect is the same. He had bloodwork done, so we know his toxicity is increasing.

So far he remains active, interested and normal, just yellow.

2badcats October 3rd, 2008 07:11 AM

Standard Process isn't
 
I was just researching Standard Process and discovered they are one of, maybe "The" most notorious quack medicine company in American history - founded by a DD who used the "doctor" part to create the illusion he was a medical doctor.
After convictions of their own representatives and owner, their recent strategy is to provide products to con artists or naive resellers, who then make the false claims for them - that way the reseller gets convicted, and Standard Process walks away.

This isn't even a "new age" supplier of herbal alternatives, their history is that they make fake everything, including fake alternative medicines I would suspect. Real modern snake oil makers according to FDA and many other records. I found reports of bogus medication being sold to chiropractors into 2008.
Some of their antics over the years are comic if they weren't so horrifying - backyard experiments on animals and such.

I'd suggest extreme caution with this stuff - the ingredients on their website look credible for what few things I can say anything about, but I guess the question would be if the country you're in tests products to match their labels. Maybe modern regulations have forced them to improve, but some reports don't sound like it.

See this page, but Google them and FDA, fraud, etc - lots more info on sites of medical and veterinary associations:
[url]http://www.ncahf.org/articles/j-n/lee.html[/url]

sugarcatmom October 3rd, 2008 12:12 PM

Watch out for the "Watchers"
 
I can't really comment on the validity of Standard Process products (although I do know people who have used the Feline Enteric Support on their IBD cats with great success), but I'd like to comment on the National Council Against Health Fraud. You can't believe everything they say either. Very anti-alternative health, and have come out against pretty much every other health modality out there except for Big Pharmacy and allopathic medicine. Where the big bucks are. Highly critical of acupuncture, chiropracty, homeopathy, TCM, etc. Lost a big court case in California against a maker of homeopathic remedies. Some interesting reading (and to show that there are 2 sides to everything):
[url]http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=National_Council_Against_Health_Fraud[/url]
[url]http://www.whale.to/a/ancahf_h.html[/url]
[url]http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/QuackWatchWatch.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.quackpotwatch.org/opinionpieces/california_appeals_court_bludgeo.htm[/url]


Anyway, sorry to hear about what you and your cat are going through. One of my cats had a completely blocked bile duct a few years ago and had to have emergency surgery to remove his about-to-burst gall bladder. His issue was related to Inflammatory Bowel Disease, which unfortunately was so severe that I had to euthanize him a month later. My fingers are crossed that your kitty has a better outcome. I have no idea if this would be appropriate in your situation, but maybe ask your vet about Actigall, which is a med that thins the bile fluid. Also I think a lower-fat diet is usually recommended in liver & bile related issues. An excellent product for liver support is Denamarin, a combo of Denosyl and Silymarin (milk thistle). You can get it from your vet if you're in the US, but in Canada you have to order it online.

Good luck! Let us know what happens.

2badcats October 16th, 2008 09:10 AM

non-useful update
 
Non useful because it doesn't clarify what happened or why.
After the vet predicted inevitable and fairly quick doom, basically that my buddy was a dead man walking, my buddy promptly did exactly what the vet said wouldn't happen - got better.
The yellow is fading visibly, urine colour, appetite, all back to normal, strength coming back fast, etc.
Hoping it isn't a temporary break. But all the way though this he hasn't acted like he thought he was dying or even badly sick. He's always been a tough, stubborn little SOB so hoping it will keep him on course now.

Anyway - if its useful to anyone - he's on Denosyl daily at 5:30PM, Royal Canin K/D and Reduced Protein. Taken for 1 hour walks daily (but that's because he loves walks, probably not for all cats).

@sugarcatmom - I know what you're saying, at first I thought it was just another case of "mainstream" vs "alternative" but it looks more like Standard Process vs Everyone. A lot of those watchdog groups are protecting their own interests though, so it is true you have to filter what they say.

carolrenee September 5th, 2013 04:39 PM

gave me hope
 
I know this thread is several years old, but I currently have a cat in liver failure and, despite our efforts (sub q fluids, syringe feeding, antibiotics, anti nausea meds and appetite stimulant), his liver function tests are getting worse. My vet told me today that she suspects a blocked bile duct...possibly even a mass (didn't see anything on xray, but haven't done an ultrasound). We don't know how old he is as we took him in off the street about a year ago. He has a grade 4 (or level 4 or something) heart murmur and he is FIV positive. So we don't want to put him through surgery. My vet suggested stopping the meds etc...in which case he will die within days as he isn't eating. But he seems ok otherwise. Not quite himself, but loving, alert...not great but OK. I can't just stop all support and let him die. I read this thread and decided to give him more of a chance and I added the Denamarin, which the vet happened to give me a couple of weeks ago. We'll see what happens. Maybe he'll surprise us all!

Barkingdog September 5th, 2013 08:55 PM

I hope your cat will surprise you too.

Reg September 5th, 2013 10:41 PM

Hi:

Welcome to the forum, I am sorry to hear about your problems with your cat. Hopefully you'll be able to find some answers here that will work. All I can do is suggest something that worked for me about 10 years ago with one of my cats. As a kitten, Missy's system had been overwhelmed by stress, vaccines, spaying, and over prescribed antibiotics. This started her liver to shut down, and when the blood work was done the liver function test was right through the roof. The vet I had at the time gave me 2 options for treatment: the first was the normal allopathic medicine using pharmaceutical drugs, and the 2nd was using alternatives. I asked her for her opinion, and she said that she hadn't had much success with pharmaceuticals in this type of situation. She went on to say she wanted to consult with some of her colleagues stateside, but she thought doing homeopathics would work.

The long and the short of it. We went to a homemade diet, added a few supplements, and the main ingredient was Milk Thistle to my way of thinking. The whole idea behind it was to eliminate the stress on the liver caused by store-bought foods and previous medications. The whole process took considerable time. You could see a slight change after a week and a half but it took about the best part of 3 months before she was back close to normal. The milk Thistle I used at the time was called Bio - Foie. It was made in Québec, and with that brand I was giving 4 to 5 drops in about 1 1/2 mls of distilled water 3 times a day to start. I have since switched to another milk Thistle made by A.Vogel. This one I use 2 sometimes 3 drops in about the same amount of water and it works quite well also.

I can't advise you on using milk Thistle. But if you're coming up against the wall it might pay to find a vet with some knowledge in alternatives that you feel comfortable talking to, and run it by them for their opinion. It might be something that would work for you as well. It's worth thinking about.

Please keep us informed we would like to know how you're doing, and hopefully some other members will add their ideas as well .


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:20 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.