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-   -   Hi-Tor neo diet (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=54583)

almur July 20th, 2008 02:35 PM

Hi-Tor neo diet
 
Does Hi-Tor canned food require a prescription in Canada (not required in US)?
Does anyone know who sells it in Toronto ?

sugarcatmom July 20th, 2008 07:33 PM

No prescription required that I know of. Here's the store locator for Toronto: [url]http://www.triumphpet.com/locator/results_list.php?user5=triumph&city=toronto&citysearch=Go[/url]

Is it the Hi-Tor Neo diet for cats that you're looking at (I see you have a kidney cat)? Any particular reason you want to feed specifically Hi-Tor? I'm just looking at the ingredients and there are better quality foods out there:

[QUOTE]Ingredients:
Sufficient Water For Processing, Meat By-Products, Chicken, Animal Liver, Beef, Poultry Fat, Ocean Fish, Rice Flour, .....[/QUOTE]

"Meat by-products" and "animal liver" are too ambiguous for my taste. They are more likely to include 4D livestock (dead, dying, diseased, disabled) and roadkill, and are not a quality muscle meat. "Ocean fish" is another one of those catch-all terms that consist of the leftover dregs of the fishing industry. Rice flour is just a thickner, totally unnecessary for an obligate carnivore.

Cat's with CRF should be fed quality muscle meat protein sources. Something like Wellness is considerably better.

almur July 20th, 2008 07:49 PM

I give my cat Wellness and Prairie. Rudy, my kitty, went for a blood test on Friday and his BUN and creatinine levels are higher. Vet is forcing me to change my cat’s diet to low protein. I tried once, back in March but k/d gave my kitty a diarrhea. I am very reluctant to put my cat on a low protein diet but on other hand, maybe I should :confused: I am asking about Hi-Tor but I haven’t decided if I will feed it to my cat. I don’t know what to do anymore. I am having a great deal of difficulty finding a good vet who really knows how to treat a cat diagnosed with CRF.

growler~GateKeeper July 20th, 2008 08:16 PM

Hi Almur :) My cat also has CRF, after she was diagnosed I put her on Wellness canned Chicken, Beef & Chicken and Turkey as those 3 varieties have the lowest phosphorus levels. That is what your kitty needs more than low protein. Cats being obligate carnivores need protein, when you reduce the amount of protein they are eating the body doesn't function as well.

The debate over whether low protein is beneficial to kidney cats is ongoing with more people choosing high quality protein over low levels. Alot of the low protein foods are unappetizing to cats, who will eat mostly based on what smells & tastes good, just because a food is low protein/low phosphorus & says it is for kidney health it won't be of any benefit if the cat won't eat it.

What you want to look for in catfood is as close to 1% or lower in dry matter basis for phosphorus, but keep in mind you want natural healthy non-chemical ingredients such as those in Wellness.

CHICKEN
......................As fed Basis,............Dry Matter............g/Per 1000
............................%..................... Basis, %...............KCAL ME
M.E. KCAL/KG.....1411.10...................5253.54.......... ..........-

MOISTURE..........73.14........................-...........................-
PROTEIN.............12.04....................44.83 ......................85.32
FAT...................10.96.....................40 .80.....................77.67
CARBOHYDRATES...1.74.....................6.48..... .................12.33
FIBER..................0.27.....................1. 01........................1.91
ASH....................1.85......................6 .89.....................13.11
CALCIUM..............0.36.....................1.34 .......................2.55
PHOSPHORUS........0.31.....................1.15... ....................2.20
POTASSIUM..........0.35.....................1.30.. .....................2.48
SODIUM...............0.09.....................0.34 .......................0.64


CHICKEN & BEEF

........................As fed Basis,..........Dry Matter...........g/Per 1000
.............................%.................... Basis, %...............KCAL ME
M.E. KCAL/KG.....1239.84.................5159.55............ ........-

MOISTURE..........75.97.........................-.....................-
PROTEIN.............11.11...................46.23. ..................89.61
FAT....................9.43....................39. 24...................76.06
CARBOHYDRATES..1.42......................5.91..... ..............11.45
FIBER..................0.26.....................1. 08.....................2.10
ASH....................1.81.....................7. 53....................14.60
CALCIUM..............0.31....................1.29. ....................2.50
PHOSPHORUS........0.28....................1.17.... .................2.26
POTASSIUM..........0.31....................1.29... ..................2.50
SODIUM...............0.09....................0.37. ....................0.73


TURKEY
........................As fed Basis,...........Dry Matter............g/Per 1000
.............................%.................... Basis, %................KCAL ME
M.E. KCAL/KG.......1397.62..................5205.29......... .............-

MOISTURE............73.15.......................-..............................-
PROTEIN...............12.44...................46.3 3.......................89.01
FAT.....................10.63...................39 .59.......................76.06
CARBOHYDRATES....1.67.....................6.22.... .....................11.95
FIBER...................0.27.....................1 .01..........................1.93
ASH.....................1.84.....................6 .85.........................13.17
CALCIUM..............0.33.....................1.22 ..........................2.34
PHOSPHORUS........0.28.....................1.05... .......................2.01
POTASSIUM..........0.32.....................1.18.. ........................2.27
SODIUM................0.08.....................0.3 0.........................0.58

There are a lot of links & info in my CRF thread [URL="http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=45017"]here[/URL].

Included are: [url]http://www.felinecrf.com/index.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.felineoutreach.org/links.html#Kidney[/url]
[url]http://www.felinecrf.org/index.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&C=9&A=572&S=2[/url]

Some info on [URL="http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm"]Feline Nutrition[/URL]

Have you considered Homeopathic Veterinarians? My cat is seeing a homeopath vet & has been on raw food for about 7 months now & she's doing really well.

:goodvibes: for Rudy

almur July 21st, 2008 07:18 PM

Thanks Growler. After reading your thread I am not looking for Hi-Tor food anymore. I feed, and will keep feeding my cat Wellness. Rudy likes Salmon and Turkey. According to this website [url]http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm[/url] this Wellness food is the lowest in phosphorus. Yesterday I sent an email to Wellness asking for the info so I can verify these numbers myself. So far, no reply. Do you know what is phosphorus level in Salmon and Turkey ?

I would like very much to hear an opinion of a holistic vet but have no idea how to find one. I am having a huge problem finding a “regular” vet who can do more than to switch Rudy to k/d food. We have been to 4 different vets since January

sugarcatmom July 21st, 2008 09:05 PM

[QUOTE=almur;626141]According to this website [url]http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm[/url] this Wellness food is the lowest in phosphorus. [/quote]

Not sure the Kat Karma pages are very up to date. According to the more recent figures on this [url=http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/CanFoodNew.html]site[/url], the Turkey & Salmon is a bit too high in phosphorus at 299 mg per 100 Kcal. You want something less than about 240. Turkey is lowest at 200mg, with Chicken and Kitten close by at 219 and 216, respectively. It's generally a good idea to stay away from fish flavours if you can.

[QUOTE=almur;626141]would like very much to hear an opinion of a holistic vet but have no idea how to find one. [/QUOTE]

I suspect some of the info on these links is out of date, but it might help in your quest:

[url]http://www.pets4life.com/index.php?p=research/hvet[/url]
[url]http://www.holisticvetlist.com/#search[/url]

Perhaps asking your current vet or doing a google search would help?

aslan July 21st, 2008 09:09 PM

almur, there is a fantastic holistic vet in Oakville, named Lisa Burgess.... She will even make house calls depending on where in Mississauga you are.

almur July 21st, 2008 10:13 PM

Thanks Sugarcatmom and Aslan.
Turkey & Salmon is out.
I will contact the holistic vet in Oakville ...no problem to travel there

growler~GateKeeper July 21st, 2008 10:29 PM

[QUOTE=almur;626141]Thanks Growler. After reading your thread I am not looking for Hi-Tor food anymore. I feed, and will keep feeding my cat Wellness. Rudy likes Salmon and Turkey. According to this website [url]http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm[/url] this Wellness food is the lowest in phosphorus. Yesterday I sent an email to Wellness asking for the info so I can verify these numbers myself. So far, no reply. Do you know what is phosphorus level in Salmon and Turkey ?

I would like very much to hear an opinion of a holistic vet but have no idea how to find one. I am having a huge problem finding a “regular” vet who can do more than to switch Rudy to k/d food. We have been to 4 different vets since January[/QUOTE]

Sugarcatmom is right the Kat Karma pages were last updated in 2003 & 2005, here is the values for Wellness Turkey & Salmon - I did get these directly from consumer services @ Wellness along with the complete breakdowns of all their catfood products. The Turkey & Salmon is too high in phos @ 1.44% dm basis and also as SCM mentions you do want to limit your feeding of fish varieties when possible. CRF kitties often have very little appetite and when the only thing they want to eat is fish, if they refuse to eat any other meat type they are @ higher risk for developing liver issues. Unfortunately the fish varieties are not low enough in phos & they are not nutritionally balanced enough for a cat with medical issues.

TURKEY & SALMON
......................As fed Basis,............Dry Matter............g/Per 1000
............................%..................... Basis, %...............KCAL ME
M.E. KCAL/KG.....1162.30...................4775.27.....................-

MOISTURE..........75.66........................-...........................-
PROTEIN.............12.20....................50.12 ....................104.96
FAT....................7.99.....................32.83.....................68.74
CARBOHYDRATES...1.79.....................7.35..... .................15.40
FIBER..................0.26.....................1. 07........................2.24
ASH....................2.10......................8 .63.....................18.07
CALCIUM..............0.50.....................2.05 .......................4.30
PHOSPHORUS........0.35.....................1.44... ....................3.01
POTASSIUM..........0.32.....................1.31.. .....................2.75
SODIUM...............0.11.....................0.45 .......................0.95


As for Homeopath/Holistic vets look into the recommendation by Aslan :thumbs up, you can also ask your vet for a recommendation, that is how I found my Homeopath vet. I wanted to do something more for my cat Duffy than just wait until she needs sub q fluids so I asked my vet about adding homeopathy to her treatment plan & she recommended the Dr. that Duffy is currently seeing. I like the approach, atmosphere, treatments, the way of helping so much that I did a full switch to homeopathy. :D

Rolling September 6th, 2010 09:27 PM

Difficult to change his diet
 
Hi

I have been trying for 7 months to change my CRF cats diet. He was on Wellness turkey for about a year, but he developed diarrhea. Losing fluids with CRF is a constant problem, so the vet whom I really respect suggested he go on Hill's WD. Well he did and loved it and the diarrhea was certainly controlled some. The only thing is he lost so much weight! It's so high in fiber, and he is always hungry and pooping. He was about 8.5 pounds now he's about 6.... just so boney. I have tried to introduce other diets such as ID, and back to KD ... then he starts vomiting. He is 18.5mo.old and I don't know if it's just a symptom of age, CRF and IBD or if he can spring back some with a diet change. I give him fluids about once a day now as it has been 3 years since he was diagnosed with CRF.

I keep thinking if I could land him on a good new diet he would have some more joy. I was giving him cooked ground kosher turkey for a treat 3 times a day in addition to the WD canned and dry... but his tummy is very upset now for about 2 days, so I quit the turkey for now. Could Wellness be helpful now?:fingerscr

Rgeurts September 6th, 2010 09:51 PM

[QUOTE=almur;626141]Yesterday I sent an email to Wellness asking for the info so I can verify these numbers myself. So far, no reply. [/QUOTE]

If you call the 800 number, they will answer. I just spoke with a girl named Heather who was very helpful. She had our vet fax them Thorins file (11 yrs old Mal/GSDX with Colitis and calcium oxylate stones). Their vet reviewed his file then contacted my vet to let them know the best diet for him. Heather also called me back to review what their vet had said. I was very impressed by the willingness to help and the speedy responses.

:goodvibes: for your baby!

Rgeurts September 6th, 2010 09:54 PM

Oops! Didn't realize this was an older thread :o
But maybe someone looking for help will see that Wellness is very accessible!

growler~GateKeeper September 9th, 2010 03:05 AM

[QUOTE=Rolling;949954]Hi

I have been trying for 7 months to change my CRF cats diet. He was on Wellness turkey for about a year, but he developed diarrhea. Losing fluids with CRF is a constant problem, so the vet whom I really respect suggested he go on Hill's WD. Well he did and loved it and the diarrhea was certainly controlled some. The only thing is he lost so much weight! It's so high in fiber, and he is always hungry and pooping. He was about 8.5 pounds now he's about 6.... just so boney. I have tried to introduce other diets such as ID, and back to KD ... then he starts vomiting. He is 18.5mo.old and I don't know if it's just a symptom of age, CRF and IBD or if he can spring back some with a diet change. I give him fluids about once a day now as it has been 3 years since he was diagnosed with CRF.

I keep thinking if I could land him on a good new diet he would have some more joy. I was giving him cooked ground kosher turkey for a treat 3 times a day in addition to the WD canned and dry... but his tummy is very upset now for about 2 days, so I quit the turkey for now. Could Wellness be helpful now?:fingerscr[/QUOTE]

The Wellness Turkey is great for a CRF cat, it has a good dry matter phos number 1.05%, the Chicken also had a good number 1.15% dm phos, the Beef & Chicken is also good @ 1.17%.

You mention he was on Wellness before, so you know what caused the diarreah to start? Was there a treat he was reacting to then as well, or was he always reacting to turkey?


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