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-   -   Cesar Milan vs Brad Pattison (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=53131)

dogmelissa June 9th, 2008 09:38 PM

Cesar Milan vs Brad Pattison
 
Both are dog trainers with shows on TV, and I personally find that their styles are very different, though the outcomes seem to be similar.

Brad is the host/trainer of "At The End of My Leash", Cesar is the host/trainer for "Dog Whisperer". At The End is on Slice Network, Whisperer shows on National Geographic Channel.

Just thought I'd put up a poll - who do you like (or both) and why? Or why do you dislike them both?

My opinion:
I prefer Brad over Cesar. I think Cesar has his place in the training world, too, but I think he works with more extreme animals - the ones who have learned some dangerous habits, where Brad takes on dogs with bad habits that aren't necessarily dangerous (though some of them are).

I'm not sure that either show is the kind of thing a "typical" guardian would watch to get some tips on how to train their own animals. If you have a difficult dog, it's probably not going to help much to watch either of them, IMO - it's almost always better to find a trainer that you feel comfortable with to actually work *with* you and the dog directly.

That being said, I'd rather watch At The End of My Leash over Dog Whisperer any day of the week. :)

What's your opinion?

Melissa

angeldogs June 9th, 2008 09:51 PM

I like them both.different styles of training.with Brad he doesn't sugar coat anything at all.i have meet Brad and he tells it like it is.and Brad does work with aggressive dogs.

les June 9th, 2008 10:58 PM

I way prefer Cesar over Brad. Although they both get results and I like what both are doing, I can't stand the yelling and screaming Brad does ... personally, I just find it annoying.

Cesar is not so much a dog trainer either - I mean he doesn't teach sit, down, come ... he does teach how to be the pack leader which is probably most important =) Alright ... Cesar is my idol :lovestruck:

kigndano June 9th, 2008 10:59 PM

cesar but ive never seen the other guy.

i feel like he goes right to the heart of dog behavior and dog psychology, and it makes so much sense when he explains it.

just my .02

happycats June 10th, 2008 06:09 AM

I love Cesar!!!

Lissa June 10th, 2008 08:11 AM

[B]Neither...[/B]

Cesar IMO has re-popularized fear/force based methods that were on their way out. The alpha thoery has long been discredited but with the coming of the "dog whisperer", dominating dogs is becoming more and more ingrained:sad:
[url]http://dogpublic.com/articles/article.aspx?t=training411&sid=14&pid=1640[/url]

I've watched a lot more Pattison shows than Cesar because a friend of mine adores him and tapes them (I refuse to contribute to his (or Cesar's) ratings so I only watch the shows that others have taped). Personally I spend most of the time either laughing at Pattison's behaviour and ridiculous statements or frustrated that people are welcoming him into their home so that he can terrorize their dogs...

:2cents:

Melinda June 10th, 2008 08:20 AM

just by saying his name on line....in print is a "boon" for Cesar or Brad, there are consulting firms that have software continually searching the net for any mention of their names. Dog Whisperer and End of my leash are clients for one firm in Ottawa and receive reports daily of how many times their names or show is mentioned.

That said, I like both their shows and realize there is more being done than what they have time to show in their alloted time. I read both their forums for behind the scene stuff and they totally amaze me, my hats off to them for correcting behavior that 9 out of ten times land dogs in pounds or being euthanized.

*L* I just gave each of them a "boon" *L*

Lissa June 10th, 2008 09:42 AM

[QUOTE=Melinda;604858]just by saying his name on line....in print is a "boon" for Cesar or Brad, there are consulting firms that have software continually searching the net for any mention of their names.[/QUOTE]

I could always try speaking in code but I don't think anybody would understand me:laughing:... Gotto break my own rules sometimes:p

Melinda June 10th, 2008 09:51 AM

*L* rules were made to be broken..........aren't they? *LOL*:goodvibes:

Dingo June 10th, 2008 10:16 AM

I don't get the channel it's on so I've never seen a whole Dog Whisperer episode, but I do watch At The End of My Leash. I'm not a big fan of Brad, I must say. He's pretty rude and confrontational, and he usually manages to turn someone off every episode. But the biggest letdown about his show for me is that it focuses on human relationships rather than dog training.

For instance, in yesterday's episode, about a 6 month old, hard to control Golden Retriever, the main focus was on mending the family's relationships with each other. There was next to nothing shown concerning training the dog or teaching the people to handle him. At least from what I've seen of Cesar he does more of that.

Also, I find it very irritating the way that Brad pronounces the word "important." Listen for it next time.

Ford Girl June 10th, 2008 10:28 AM

I prefer Cesar, and altho people think the whole "alfa" theory of training is either old school or over rated, I use his methods with my dog/dog aggressive girl - who is a freight train with an attitude, including his leash walking techniques (I walk 6klm one handed, she's never pulled once since we leashed her this way) and use of body launguage, and the results speak for themselves, they work wonders for me and my dog and I never have to actually alfa roll her or "dominate" her, or yank or pull or bully my dog, I do it with silence and signals, which is what he encourages. He also encourages people to treat dogs like dogs and not humanize them.

I follow his theory every day with my dog and it works. The alfa theory may have long been discredited but dogs understand it very quickly and it works, discreditied or not, you can't aurgue results. :shrug:

I have paid for so many classes, spoken to so many behaviorlist and communicators, and nothing beats thinking and behaving like a pack leader.

Just my experience with Cesar's methods. :thumbs up

happycats June 10th, 2008 10:48 AM

[QUOTE=Ford Girl;604944]I prefer Cesar, and altho people think the whole "alfa" theory of training is either old school or over rated, I use his methods with my dog/dog aggressive girl - who is a freight train with an attitude, including his leash walking techniques (I walk 6klm one handed, she's never pulled once since we leashed her this way) and use of body launguage, and the results speak for themselves, they work wonders for me and my dog and I never have to actually alfa roll her or "dominate" her, or yank or pull or bully my dog, I do it with silence and signals, which is what he encourages. He also encourages people to treat dogs like dogs and not humanize them.

I follow his theory every day with my dog and it works. The alfa theory may have long been discredited but dogs understand it very quickly and it works, discreditied or not, you can't aurgue results. :shrug:

I have paid for so many classes, spoken to so many behaviorlist and communicators, and nothing beats thinking and behaving like a pack leader.

Just my experience with Cesar's methods. :thumbs up[/QUOTE]


I agree 100%!!!!

Buddy is a calm easy going dog, and I can control him easily with body language, I have never had to alpha roll him either. I don't even speak, he just knows by my body language what I want. (thanks to Cesar)

I feel treating dogs like people is exactly whats wrong with dogs today, why there is so much aggression, disrespect, biting,and fighting going on.

Like the saying goes "treat your dog like a human, and he will treat you like a dog" :shrug:

DoubleRR June 10th, 2008 11:06 AM

I also agree with Ford Girl and happycats--Cesars methods work, work well, and no dog resents it [I]if you follow Cesars actual methods[/I]. He does not bully the dog into submission--he works with the signals the dog is sending and at the right time he acts. It works. When you see his pack, none of them are cowed or fearful or concerned about what Cesar might require of them, but they listen.

Ford Girl June 10th, 2008 11:12 AM

[QUOTE=happycats;604955]
I feel treating dogs like people is exactly whats wrong with dogs today, why there is so much aggression, disrespect, biting,and fighting going on.

Like the saying goes "treat your dog like a human, and he will treat you like a dog" :shrug:[/QUOTE]

Exactly!!! His shows do only show the worst extreme cases, where he does have to go a bit further then I've ever had to, if he showed dogs that submitted right away, the episiode would be done. :laughing: He only actually alfa rolls the extreme cases, I have several seasons on DVD, and it's rare. For the softer cases he steps forward and snaps and makes animal type noises, uses his body to block, doesn't charge int he door and demand behavior, and I have never ever seen him lose control or even lose his cool. I have never seen him use fear/force based methods. :shrug:

I like how he takes what the humans say and turns it around to show them that their dogs are not humans, shouldn't be treated like humans, and how the owners affect the dogs behavior. It really is all about being a good strong confident leader, once I changed the way I dealt with thing, Dazy jumped on board. It was like a light bulb went off for both of us.

Brad's energy is way different, it's more forceful then Cesar's.

Either way I think it's important to try things best suited to your personality, and to know that if it doesn't work, try something else. Besides the Cesar methods that I use, I also use some of what the Human Society has taught me (for volunteering with the dogs), its very simular to Cesar and it works, as in leadership/body launguage/control, and these are dogs that I've never met before that have no reason to trust me. :thumbs up

want4rain June 10th, 2008 11:33 AM

heh, thought you might enjoy this-

[url]http://www.google.com/trends?q=cesar+milan%2C+brad+pattison&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0[/url]

-ash

want4rain June 10th, 2008 11:34 AM

or this one-

[url]http://www.google.com/trends?q=cesar+milan,+brad+pattison&date=all&geo=can&ctab=0&ctab=0&sa=N[/url]

-ash

angeldogs June 10th, 2008 11:42 AM

Brad in person and working with him his energy is different then on TV to me.
I spent a few hours with him and Brad showing me things well he worked on other peoples dogs.somethings seemed harsh.and he took all the loving the same dogs gave him and he gave it back.He was telling one guy to get rid of the prong collar and get his dogs nutured and get them under control.one dog had a bark collar on and he threw it beside the garbage can and when the owner went to get it he told her if she didn't leave it he wouldn't work on her dog.

Sylvie June 11th, 2008 08:43 AM

I agree with everything FordGirl has said!

I love Cesar. He is my hero:lovestruck: I have never met anyone who could read a dog like him!

Having said that, each individual has to do what is best for them. Not everyone can react like Cesar. Timing in any kind of training is important and also, some dogs are easier to train than others. :2cents:

dogmelissa June 12th, 2008 01:26 PM

My added tid-bits....

I've seen more of Brad's shows than Cesar's, but the common things that I have noticed - neither of them really show too much detail on training techniques. Both are obviously much more in-depth than what can be shown on TV, and what does get shown on TV is edited for the most drama, interest and general viewer entertainment. In the case of Brad, that's a lot of yelling and freaking people out and doing sometimes wild things (I once saw him lick the countertop to demonstrate a point about how disgusting it was to allow a dog to do it!). In the case of Cesar, that's the moment that he reaches a break-through with a dog, whether that's the 83rd time he's done something or the 1st.

Also I think the different clients that they show on TV have a lot to do with how their style comes across. I'm sure that Brad does know how to handle aggressive dogs, but those aren't his most common clients. I'm also sure that Cesar could handle counter-surfing dogs, but those aren't his most common clients.

I'm glad that everyone here can have such an open discussion about this and not be all freaked out by someone saying "I prefer this person"! It's a nice change!!

Hey Teri - what do you think about Brenda's new training ideas at the daycare? PM me if you want.

Melissa

Reality June 12th, 2008 03:02 PM

I've only seen ceaser so I guess I have to vote for him. Good that there is someone helping dogs who might needed help and their owners too.

want4rain June 12th, 2008 04:53 PM

i have seen Cesars method in action. my uncle Mike is mentally handicapped. i wont go into the details of it other than to say he is almost fully functioning but with a few... quirks, shall we say. :)

he walked into my house a year after we got Mister, took one look at Mister, completely adjusted his posture and had a dog, who within mere moments was obeying his every command, following him around like a little love struck puppy and basically begging him to command his every move with nothing other than body language. it was brilliant to watch.

-ashley

angeldogs June 12th, 2008 05:11 PM

[QUOTE=want4rain;606193]i have seen Cesars method in action. my uncle Mike is mentally handicapped. i wont go into the details of it other than to say he is almost fully functioning but with a few... quirks, shall we say. :)

he walked into my house a year after we got Mister, took one look at Mister, completely adjusted his posture and had a dog, who within mere moments was obeying his every command, following him around like a little love struck puppy and basically begging him to command his every move with nothing other than body language. it was brilliant to watch.

-ashley[/QUOTE]

That would be something to see.i would like to meet Cesar.weither it's working with a dog or just himself.

happycats June 12th, 2008 07:37 PM

[QUOTE=angeldogs;606195]That would be something to see.i would like to meet Cesar.weither it's working with a dog or just himself.[/QUOTE]


I would love to meet Cesar and his pack!!! I so want to give Big Daddy a huge hug, I would love to spend a week-end there!!

angeldogs June 12th, 2008 09:53 PM

[QUOTE=happycats;606211]I would love to meet Cesar and his pack!!! I so want to give Big Daddy a huge hug, I would love to spend a week-end there!![/QUOTE]

Oh ya.hug that Big Daddy would be a dream come true.

Sylvie June 13th, 2008 03:32 PM

I am with you Happycats, I would love to go to the compound to meet both Cesar and Daddy. Maybe one day:pray: LOL

angeldogs June 13th, 2008 05:16 PM

Daddy is the heart throb of the Cesar pack.

mollywog June 14th, 2008 03:13 PM

I have learned so much about dog training and behaviour just from watching The Dog Whisperer. I like how Caesar simplifies everything and is RESPECTFUL to the people he is working with. I always try to keep in mind his top 3 needs for every dog: 1. exercise 2. discipline and [I]lastly[/I], 3. affection. So many dog owners go at it the opposite way, with disastrous results.
I remember the first time I saw End of My Leash. I was actually mad at the way that Brad was treating the people, he always seems to make someone cry! I see his point but I don't necessarily appreciate his approach. :pawprint:

tleef November 10th, 2008 11:07 AM

Just my $0.02
 
We have tried a number of different training techniques with our 2-1/2 year old black lab, Lucy. She's a very high energy dog and we were to the point that we were barely walking her because she would act so aggresively towards other dogs. We had tried using positive reinforcement training as this is how I've trained my birds and it worked so well...but not as well with Lucy. There were just times that the treat was not as reinforcing as the behaviour...or she was full and the treat meant nothing. We started watching the Slice network's show "At the end of my leash" and while Brad can be quite abrasive, his methods seemed to work on the show. So...we searched his website, found one of his trainers in Calgary and signed up for a class. The difference in our dog within the first week or so was astounding...suddenly she respected what we told her. There was no more getting on the couch/bed. No more constantly barking when someone walked by the house (just a single bark to let us know someone was there)! This past Sunday we had the class at Eau Claire market and we were able to put our dog into a sit/stay, walk away from her and even offer up distractions, along with the joggers/cyclists/dogs that were already present and she stayed!!! We are delighted with the way things have turned around and I would absolutely, without hesitation tell anyone that needs help to sign up to one of Brad's Street Safety classes. The $500 charge was worth it to us and we now have the tools to continue to socialize our dog and have her listen to us without fail. FYI...we took Lucy to puppy classes and socialized her with all kinds of other dogs and still we had issues every time we took her out on a leash...this training has given us the tools to work with Lucy and soon she'll be enjoying playing off-leash with other dogs and she'll come when we call her to go home.

Mat&Murph November 10th, 2008 12:24 PM

I think they both have different techniques that both work. Brad thing is basicly the same as Cesar's where you take control and show your dog whose "Alpa" I like Cesar's better cause it shows more of the actual training. I do wish Brad shows more

totallyhip November 10th, 2008 12:53 PM

:sorry: I can't stand Brad Pattison. He uses very old school training techniques and is being investigated by the SPCA for hanging a dog by a choke collar on a tree :eek:

I enjoy watching Cesar and I think he is a very good handler with the dogs. But when it comes to tv shows (both Brad & Cesar) there is alot of editing going on and the scenes that you don't see behind the cameras. I also don't agree with some of the tools Cesar uses (prong & shock collars, electric fences) but that just me.

:rolleyes:


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