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-   -   Early Stage Kidney Failure in Cat (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=45017)

growler~GateKeeper September 29th, 2007 02:04 AM

Early Stage Kidney Failure in Cat
 
My 16 year old :cat: Duffy has just been diagnoised with early stage Kidney Failure. Two years ago she had Hyperthyroidism which was [U]cured[/U] by Radioactive Iodine Therapy, now this :sad:. I'm looking for as much information as I can get so I would like to know if anyone has or had a cat with Kidney Failure, & if you can me some suggestions/tips.

She is currently on Evo canned with a little bit of Orijen & Evo dry mixed in, she has the dry available for snacking but isn't eating very much of it. I know the Evo will have to be switched because the phosphorus is too high, so any suggestions for a holistic low phosphorus food? The vet has suggested the prescription low protein/low phosph but I really want to stick with the natural food for as long as possible, which she is okay with as long as I understand she may need to be switched as some point.

She is drinking water both added into her canned food & on it's own.

Any suggestions for diet/food supplements?

Her Blood Urea Nitrogen & Creatinine levels are High, whereas her Platelets & Lymphocytes are Low and there is a small amount of protein in her urine sample.
Right now her Phosphorus count is right in the middle of normal & the Total Protein in her blood is also in normal range.

Anything I should be on the look out for, aside from vomiting, lots of peeing, lots of drinking?

Any suggestions/tips to keep her Kidney health as good as possible?

Thanks

(Added by growler - This is a long thread and for those that may be rushed, here is a [URL="http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=748618#post748618"]summary post[/URL])

rainbow September 29th, 2007 02:12 AM

I am really sorry to hear about Duffy and hugs to both of you. :grouphug: :grouphug:

I have never had to deal with kidney failure so have no advice to give. Perhaps you will have to home cook for her to avoid the vet foods. Have you read this website:

[url]http://www.felinecrf.com/managd.htm[/url]

growler~GateKeeper September 29th, 2007 02:26 AM

I hadn't seen that one thanks Rainbow :) I've saved it to read thoughly


This is one I have been reading, which has several articles written by vets, some with information regarding protein levels in food:
[url]http://www.felineoutreach.org/links.html[/url]

rainbow September 29th, 2007 02:31 AM

Another one:

[url]http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=003[/url]

rainbow September 29th, 2007 02:34 AM

The website you found has some good info there. :thumbs up

rainbow September 29th, 2007 02:37 AM

Post #4 on this forum has some links to check out as well.

[url]http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119727[/url]

growler~GateKeeper September 29th, 2007 02:47 AM

Thanks again Rainbow :thumbs up :grouphug:

rainbow September 29th, 2007 02:53 AM

There's lots of knowledgable cat people on the forum here so I'm sure you will get lots of good advice and information tomorrow. :grouphug: :fingerscr

TeriM September 29th, 2007 03:19 AM

Oops, sorry Growler, most of my replies on this were in the TJT :o.

sugarcatmom September 29th, 2007 07:20 AM

Sorry to hear about Duffy having CRF. Luckily, many cats can live years with renal issues with some good dietary and medical management. For sure the EVO is too high in phosphorous, so you might want to look at either Wellness canned or Nature's Variety. You could also ask your vet for phosphorus binders. At some point, you may want to consider giving subQ fluids, which can make a world of difference. There's a great site here on that process: [url]http://www.weirdstuffwemake.com/weird/stuff/pets/cats/sophia/catjuice.html[/url]

And here's another website on CRF to check out: [url]http://www.felinecrf.org/[/url]

chico2 September 29th, 2007 07:40 AM

Growler,so sorry about Duffy,we often go in to panicmode,when our animals are sick,but it seems you have a clear head and doing your research.The Internet and this Form is a great thing,wish I'd had all the available info 25yrs ago,with my Tigger.
I am sure you'll get a handle on this and Duffy will be fine..

krdahmer September 29th, 2007 10:06 AM

:grouphug:My kitties are all youngins so I haven't come across kidney probs yet....I will just keep you both in my prayers! :pray:

shredy September 30th, 2007 12:17 AM

Growler, I am so sorry to hear about Duffy. Your words to me during Shade's illness and her death meant more to me than I can express. I wish I had some advice to give you about diets, but I can tell you that someone to look out for as well as increased DILUTED urination (caused by the kidneys inability to concentrate urine) is reduced urination which can indicate more severe renal failure and cause the buildup of nitrates in her body because of her kidneys inability to produce and excrete urine. I am somewhat familiar with kidney failure in people, but less so in animals.

I also looked at some of the websites that Rainbow posted, but found this tid bit... [url]http://www.tarazet.com/mt/archives/002643.html[/url] it says that this drug may help to improve appetite which can be a big issue for renal failure.

Keep her eating and drinking as much as possible, if she is diuresing (massive urination) she can become dehydrated and develop electrolyte imbalances and if she is not getting enough calories she will start to breakdown muscle which is protein.

Tell you vet that you are interested in information and ask them for resources including research studies. I am happy to help you understand the scientific stuff if you don't have a medical background. Please let me knwo if there is anything I can do to help you. All the best for you and Duffy :cat: :goodvibes::goodvibes::grouphug:

growler~GateKeeper September 30th, 2007 03:15 AM

Thank you everyone for the good wishes :) & for all the links posted :thumbs up, some I have seen some I have not but will definately be checking each & every one

Yes Sugarcatmom I will be switching from the Evo to either the Wellness or the Nature's Variety, finding which one she likes & is lowest in phos is my next task, & I know I have to stay away from fish varieties as much as possible.

Good thing I live 2 blocks from a fabulous pet supply store cuz I just bought a case of Evo last week, as yet unopened, so no problem returning it :rolleyes:

I have found great info on comparing foods using "dry matter amounts" instead of "as fed amounts" because there is so much difference in moisture content, so this is a gives a great comparison for all nutrients in different foods.

Scroll down to "Converting dry matter basis"

[url]http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=1&cat=1399&articleid=667#[/url]

Shredy thank you for your offer of help [I may take you up on that] & your kind words :)

Chico - there has been info re HyperThyroidism links with kidney failure, so I will PM you the link to be sure you see it ;)

Shaykeija September 30th, 2007 03:38 AM

When Shayker was diagnosed with kidney failure the first thing I did was change her water to pedilte. It kept her hydrated and her electrolytes up. I am so sorry your furkid if facing this hard journey. :sorry:

growler~GateKeeper September 30th, 2007 03:46 AM

Thanks Shaykeija, I may look into that - right now she's drinking okay & it has been suggested to switch to a water fountain to stimulate drinking, so I'm thinking on that too. :)

growler~GateKeeper September 30th, 2007 08:49 PM

Today I have picked up:
Wellnes: a can of Chicken/ a can of Turkey/ a can of Beef & Chicken
I have emailed them in regards to Nutrient Anaylsis to get the actual phos content since I can't find it on their website :frustrated:.

Nature's Variety Instinct: a can of Rabbit/ 2 cans of Chicken
Nature's Variety Prairie (old formula): 6 cans of Beef/ 2 cans of Chicken & Turkey
I have also emailed them asking why the old formula Prairie is discontinued & mentioned Duffy's CRF and that the Beef formula is the lowest I have found [B]0.9% phos dry matter!!!![/B], the vet px diet is 1%. And also to get the Nutrient Anaylsis & actual phos content of the NEW Prairie varieties which they haven't listed ingredients/anaylsis yet.

With both emails I mentioned the Duffy's CRF so hopefully I will get good responses soon :fingerscr

growler~GateKeeper September 30th, 2007 08:58 PM

Forgot to add she had the NV Beef for dinner & she likes it :highfive: !!!!

otter September 30th, 2007 09:09 PM

Good for you Duffy!!:highfive:

I am at a loss for advice so Molly and are sending all the :goodvibes: and :grouphug: we can muster for Duffy doing great for a good long time:cat:

growler~GateKeeper September 30th, 2007 09:17 PM

Thanks Otter & Molly :grouphug:

sugarcatmom October 1st, 2007 07:21 AM

[QUOTE=growler;484284]Today I have picked up:
Wellnes: a can of Chicken/ a can of Turkey/ a can of Beef & Chicken
I have emailed them in regards to Nutrient Anaylsis to get the actual phos content since I can't find it on their website :frustrated:.

Nature's Variety Instinct: a can of Rabbit/ 2 cans of Chicken
Nature's Variety Prairie (old formula): 6 cans of Beef/ 2 cans of Chicken & Turkey
I have also emailed them asking why the old formula Prairie is discontinued & mentioned Duffy's CRF and that the Beef formula is the lowest I have found [B]0.9% phos dry matter!!!![/B], the vet px diet is 1%. And also to get the Nutrient Anaylsis & actual phos content of the NEW Prairie varieties which they haven't listed ingredients/anaylsis yet.

With both emails I mentioned the Duffy's CRF so hopefully I will get good responses soon :fingerscr[/QUOTE]

Oh sorry, I should have also given you these links listing the phosphorus amounts of many canned foods. This one shows it as mg per 100 cal: [url]http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/canfood.html[/url]

And here is another one with the listing as a % of dry matter: [url]http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm[/url] But it's probably a good thing that you emailed them anyway to get the most up-to-date info (and not all flavours/brands are listed either). Some of the Wysong varieties also have excellent phosphorus levels, but they can be harder to find, and if you feed the All Meat (Au Jus) ones, a supplement needs to be added to make them complete (or just feed intermittently).

You might know this better than me, but I believe the goal is feed foods with 1% or less of phosphorus (as percent of dry matter), or around 200mg/100cal and under. Every single meal doesn't necessarily have to follow that rule, so if you have a cat that needs variety you can alternate some of the lower ones with higher ones to get an overall balance.

Love4himies October 1st, 2007 09:24 AM

[QUOTE=growler;484291]Forgot to add she had the NV Beef for dinner & she likes it :highfive: !!!![/QUOTE]

I have been in the market for months for a higher quality canned food for my female cat who is very picky because I am now much better educated thanks to the experience of the board members here. She loves Fancy Feast, the fish varieties, but I have been able to get her to eat NV Instinct Chicken canned and sort of the Venison depending on her mood. It was the most successful brand I have found so far. She will also munch on the NV Instinct dry.

I'd be very interested to hear the responses to your emails requesting more info on the food analysis as my cat has permanent kidney damage and although her blood work results are normal except for calcium, chances are she will develop CRF in the coming years.

growler~GateKeeper October 2nd, 2007 01:32 AM

[QUOTE=sugarcatmom;484459]Oh sorry, I should have also given you these links listing the phosphorus amounts of many canned foods. This one shows it as mg per 100 cal: [url]http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/canfood.html[/url]

And here is another one with the listing as a % of dry matter: [url]http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm[/url] But it's probably a good thing that you emailed them anyway to get the most up-to-date info (and not all flavours/brands are listed either). Some of the Wysong varieties also have excellent phosphorus levels, but they can be harder to find, and if you feed the All Meat (Au Jus) ones, a supplement needs to be added to make them complete (or just feed intermittently).

You might know this better than me, but I believe the goal is feed foods with 1% or less of phosphorus (as percent of dry matter), or around 200mg/100cal and under. Every single meal doesn't necessarily have to follow that rule, so if you have a cat that needs variety you can alternate some of the lower ones with higher ones to get an overall balance.[/QUOTE]


Thank you Sugarcatmom :grouphug:, I had already seen & read those ones but always good to post for others reading too. :thumbs up

I am trying to stay grain free, low phos, lowish-more middleish range protein (I do agree they still need protein esp since it will encourage cats to eat) & holistic

Yes the goal is 1% or less phos as dry matter, but I wasn't sure about every meal so thanks for that :highfive: good to know I can go abit higher on occasion cuz it is hard to find ones that come in @ or under 1%, many are between 1.06-1.22%

growler~GateKeeper October 2nd, 2007 01:42 AM

I have so far received an email from Wellness they were wonderful at providing me with [I]complete[/I] analysis for several foods, however some were dry foods & many of the canned had fish in them & to my understanding with CRF I am supposed to try to avoid fish as much as possible, or only as a treat once in a while.

I have emailed Wellness again thanking them & asking for specific (stating the product code) variety info - for the Chicken/Turkey/Beef & Chicken, I mentioned the need to avoid fish hopefully I will get another super quick response. :fingerscr

I am still waiting for a response from Nature's Variety :fingerscr

Currently Duffy is on canned only (she does have some Evo & Orijen left for snacking but she's not been eating the dry for a while now) & there is no way to go back to dry - she wouldn't eat it, which is good Wet is Best for CRF

[QUOTE=Love4himies;484486]I'd be very interested to hear the responses to your emails requesting more info on the food analysis as my cat has permanent kidney damage and although her blood work results are normal except for calcium, chances are she will develop CRF in the coming years.[/QUOTE] :goodvibes: :grouphug:

I'll let you know when I get the desired (same detailed info) reponse from the 2nd email :thumbs up

Love4himies October 2nd, 2007 06:30 AM

Thanks, Growler.

growler~GateKeeper October 2nd, 2007 09:49 AM

[B]sugarcatmom[/B] a question I forgot to ask:

the as fed as dry matter values are based on per can so for example when Duffy was on EVO she was eating [B]1/2 can per day[/B] (she honestly wasn't hungry enoungh to have any more) [B]am I correct in assuming that the values would be half?[/B]

for example EVO per can:
moisture 74.03% = dry matter 25.97%
protein 13.23 % / 25.97 (dry matter) = 50% protein dry matter
phosphorus .36% / 25.97 (dry matter) = 1.38% phos dry matter


so if she only eats 1/2 can per day that would be:
25% protein dry matter & 0.69% phosphorus dry matter per day

[B]Is that right??[/B] thanks :)

sugarcatmom October 2nd, 2007 04:56 PM

[QUOTE=growler;484824][B]sugarcatmom[/B] a question I forgot to ask:

the as fed as dry matter values are based on per can so for example when Duffy was on EVO she was eating [B]1/2 can per day[/B] (she honestly wasn't hungry enoungh to have any more) [B]am I correct in assuming that the values would be half?[/B][/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, no, it doesn't quite work that way. The % just means that, no matter what the total weight of the food is, a consistent [b]portion[/b] is going to be made up of, lets say protein. So, whether you feed 250g of food or 500g of food, 40% of that is going to be protein, on a dry matter basis. Yes, the 250g meal will have half of the total protein of the 500g meal, but it will still be 40% in both cases. Does that make any sense?

Also, here is an excerpt from the [url=http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/canfood.html]Janet & Binky[/url] food charts regarding phosphorus amounts and comparing the different formats:

[quote][B]Q. My cat needs to eat low-phosphorus foods -- how do the numbers on your table relate to the dry weight value of phosphorus?[/B]

A. The relationship between "mg phosphorus per 100 calories" and "% phosphorus by dry weight" is not exact, as it depends on the caloric content of the food. However, as a general rule, 1% dry weight is approximately equal to 240 mg per 100 calories, see [url=http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/phosph.jpg]chart[/url].[/quote]

rainbow October 2nd, 2007 06:02 PM

Sure getting lots of good information here. I think this should be made a sticky. :thumbs up

growler~GateKeeper October 3rd, 2007 03:13 AM

[QUOTE=Love4himies;484486]She loves Fancy Feast, the fish varieties, but I have been able to get her to eat NV Instinct Chicken canned and sort of the Venison depending on her mood. It was the most successful brand I have found so far. She will also munch on the NV Instinct dry.

I'd be very interested to hear the responses to your emails requesting more info on the food analysis as my cat has permanent kidney damage and although her blood work results are normal except for calcium, chances are she will develop CRF in the coming years.[/QUOTE]


The response I got from NV was a little less than impressive after the fabulous reponses from Consumer Affairs @ Wellness.

I emailed basically the same question to both, asking for complete NA in regards to CRF feeding, asking specifically for absolute percentages not just min-max esp for phos. I also asked NV for the NA for the new line of Prairie since the old line is discontinued & the beef in the old formula is the lowest in phos so far (in terms of holistic non prescription can food). Their response was:

[COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]Thank you for your recent email inquiry to Nature’s Variety regarding our can diets and their nutritional analysis.

As you noticed, there was time recently where we were transitioning some of our can diets. We now are offering Instinct cans and will soon be again offering Prairie cans along with a new Homestyle from the Prairie cans.

The best place to find all of our nutritional information is on the website where we have all of the analysis listed for the diets that you are interested in.

This link is for the currently available Instinct cans for your review.
[url]http://www.naturesvariety.com/content.lasso?r=1204959&page=1494&-session=naturesvariety:D8AA0BFA1876f1D593uOw37A5A1C[/url]

What you will find with our diets is that our minimums and maximums listed are very near the averages in those diets so we are comfortable with you using those numbers as part of your search.

We hope that this information has been helpful and thank you again for your interest in Nature’s Variety.

Sincerely,

Customer Service
Nature’s Variety [/COLOR]

This information is all currently available to everyone on the NV website, and they did not answer why they were discontinuing the Old Prairie Formula or what the NA is for the New Prairie Formula is or if it will be similar. :frustrated:

Wellness however sent me full NA for all varieties of canned & some dry foods including the AAFCO (Association of American Feed Control Officials) Nutrient Profile Substance Claim comparison to their food (labeled CLASSIFIED), they only have the minimum amount of info the guarenteed analysis available on their website - this is the same info on the cans.

In keeping with my reassurance to Wellness that this is for my own research not for public study (or secret selling to competitors) I will only post a little of what they sent me.

In regards to the 3 varieties I purchased it looks like this:

[B]CHICKEN[/B]
......................As fed Basis,............Dry Matter............g/Per 1000
............................%.....................Basis, %...............KCAL ME
M.E. KCAL/KG.....1411.10...................5253.54....................-

MOISTURE..........73.14........................-...........................-
PROTEIN.............12.04....................44.83......................85.32
FAT...................10.96.....................40.80.....................77.67
CARBOHYDRATES...1.74.....................6.48......................12.33
FIBER..................0.27.....................1.01........................1.91
ASH....................1.85......................6.89.....................13.11
CALCIUM..............0.36.....................1.34.......................2.55
PHOSPHORUS........0.31.....................1.15.......................2.20
POTASSIUM..........0.35.....................1.30.......................2.48
SODIUM...............0.09.....................0.34.......................0.64


[B]CHICKEN & BEEF[/B]

........................As fed Basis,..........Dry Matter...........g/Per 1000
.............................%....................Basis, %...............KCAL ME
M.E. KCAL/KG.....1239.84.................5159.55....................-

MOISTURE..........75.97.........................-.....................-
PROTEIN.............11.11...................46.23...................89.61
FAT....................9.43....................39.24...................76.06
CARBOHYDRATES..1.42......................5.91...................11.45
FIBER..................0.26.....................1.08.....................2.10
ASH....................1.81.....................7.53....................14.60
CALCIUM..............0.31....................1.29.....................2.50
PHOSPHORUS........0.28....................1.17.....................2.26
POTASSIUM..........0.31....................1.29.....................2.50
SODIUM...............0.09....................0.37.....................0.73


[B]TURKEY[/B]
........................As fed Basis,...........Dry Matter............g/Per 1000
.............................%....................Basis, %................KCAL ME
M.E. KCAL/KG.......1397.62..................5205.29......................-

MOISTURE............73.15.......................-..............................-
PROTEIN...............12.44...................46.33.......................89.01
FAT.....................10.63...................39.59.......................76.06
CARBOHYDRATES....1.67.....................6.22.........................11.95
FIBER...................0.27.....................1.01..........................1.93
ASH.....................1.84.....................6.85.........................13.17
CALCIUM..............0.33.....................1.22..........................2.34
PHOSPHORUS........0.28.....................1.05..........................2.01
POTASSIUM..........0.32.....................1.18..........................2.27
SODIUM................0.08.....................0.30.........................0.58

Love4himies October 3rd, 2007 05:59 AM

Thank you, growler. Looks like Turkey in the Wellness brand would be the best for my cat. It is so difficult to get her to change her food. She is so skinny to begin with that not eating regularly worries me so. She has always been such a picky eater.


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