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-   -   Death by Anesthesia - Answered by Dr. Van Lienden (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=24676)

Cricket March 10th, 2006 12:24 PM

Death by Anesthesia - Answered by Dr. Van Lienden
 
1 Attachment(s)
On sunday Feb 26 I had my world stop for no reason & I'm wondering how common other people find themselves in the same place I was. I did what I was supposed to do - I rushed my beloved Siberian Husky - Taz to the vet for something that happens around me all the time - he'd been for a run in the county with his dad & had found a porcupine - should be simple & easy & except for him being sore for a few days wasn't supposed to make my world stop! My dog was taken too the local vet with quill's from a porcupine - he went in, was given a shot to calm down & 15 minutes later was knocked out - while under he started to come around & was given another one & then was given gas - I was assured this was normal. Afterward he was given a shot of valium & penicillin & was then sent home. 3 hours later he let out a soft cry, threw his head & stopped breathing. We rushed him back to the vet & were giving him mouth to mouth but were unable to save him. They told us that it could have been a blood clot caused by the medication used to knock him out & that it was actually a common thing to happen.

Does anyone else know of this???

Lucky Rescue March 10th, 2006 01:00 PM

I'm not a vet and don't know about what effects the combination of medications (anesthesia, gas, valium etc) given your dog may have had.

Without a necropsy, it's impossible to know what killed your dog. Death from anesthesia does happen, but I've never heard of it being "common".

Sometimes animals can have hidden defects, like heart trouble, and sometimes too much anesthetic is given, but usually the animal dies on the table.

If you really want to know what is responsible for this, a necropsy is the only way.

I'm so VERY sorry for your shocking loss.:(

Cricket March 10th, 2006 01:14 PM

I was to put it bluntly so shell shocked that I couldn't have it done - I thought that he had been thru enough that I didn't want him to have any more pain - we had tried for half an hour at the vets to bring him back. I had him cremated & just got him back this morning.

OntarioGreys March 10th, 2006 02:19 PM

I am very sorry for your loss, losing a young dog is really tough and I can understand your wanting to understand what went wrong and why. :grouphug:

Actually anesthesia deaths are pretty rare, majority of the vets today use human grade anesthesias and they usually are well tolerated, Sometimes there are other reasons involved , for example malignant hyperthermia which can be an allergic reaction to certain anesthesias or a dog may have blood clottings where their blood fails to clot properly, I have one grey that has both these problems, so more planning and monitoring is needed to get her thru surgeries safely.
I don't know if Huskies have any general known issues with certain anesthesias products use, some breeds have drug sensitivities and certain drugs are no-no's for them.

This article does relate to greyhounds but is does mention many of the different drugs and gases commonly used during anesthesia, you may find it helpful to reasearch the side effects of various drugs to maybe find out what one may have caused the clot or possibly just to have as info so that you can discuss various anesthesia protocols with a vet in the event should you have other dogs or would like to get another in the future, it may help you feel more comfortable knowing what each drug does and how well it is tolerated by animals, the article is called "Demystifying Anesthesia" and in PDF format

[URL="http://www.animalmedicalcentreofmedina.com/library.htm"]
http://www.animalmedicalcentreofmedina.com/library.htm[/URL]

It is written by one of the vets at this clinics website, listed under "doctors" Dr. William E. Feeman it has his email addy on that page, if you find out exactly what drugs where given to Taz, he may be able to explain what may have caused the clotting and if there is a safer alternative, he is pretty good about answering questions from pet owners.

Cricket March 10th, 2006 07:51 PM

Thank you for the information - it was very informative. Although I don't think that we will ever really know what happened - when / if I get another dog (Taz was an only child) that I will be asking alot more questions & not just assuming that because someone is the 'Vet' that they know what's best or that I'll so willingly place my baby in their hands again.

woodysdad March 11th, 2006 01:47 PM

I too am very sad for you, after what happened to us three weeks ago. But during any treatment at the vet, we had to sign a disclaimer if the boy was to be put under, stating that we had been made aware of the risks involved.
Sadly, Woody didn't quite make it to the vets so we will remain in ignorance.
Our thoughts are with you:grouphug:

Cricket March 12th, 2006 10:46 AM

OntairoGreys: please let me thank you again for the information that you sent me - it was very informative.

I did send the vet you suggested an email explaining everything that had happened & he responded back to me & although he wasn't able to explain why it happened - was able to helped ease my mind some. I realize that I'll never know why my angel was taken so young - at least I know that I did everything that I could for him.

Thank you again!!

mastifflover March 12th, 2006 11:01 AM

I am sorry for Taz. I own a Mastiff and they cannot be given the same anethesia as most dogs because bottom line it can kill them. So when Buddy had surgery I was very worried even though I brought my vet info and all kinds of links to info on the proper anesthesia for him. My vet openly admitted that he did not deal with a lot of giant breeds but was happy to learn more about them. Buddy came out of surgery fine. But I think we need to be as educated as possible regarding our pets.

Cricket March 12th, 2006 12:04 PM

When we lost Taz it was a accident that caused it. My fiance had, had him out for a run in the country - which Taz loved running free & he had found a porcupine. We had brought him into town & phoned the vet because it was sunday & taken him down there. We had taken him there - put him under & pulled the quills & because no one was going to be there to keep an eye on him - were able to bring him home. He passed away with his family around him - on his blanket in the living room in my lap. We were giving him CPR when we rushed him back to the clinic & tried to save him but were unable too. The shock of it all that I am finding SO hard to handle - the hard part was over with - he was home & starting to come around when everything went wrong. He was born on xmas day 2004 & came home with us as my valentine present & from that day on we had only spent a total of 5 nights away from him - he was & will always be in my eyes my baby. He was such a card - he could sing happy b-day to you, howl I love you & knew how to say please when he wanted something. He had this so innocent look when ever he did something wrong - like eat the cushions on the couch or dig up one of my plants in the garden that had something wrong to him in his eyes. He just had such a loving & giving personality that no matter how hard or bad the day was he would give you a kiss & cuddle on the couch to make it all better.

I'm sorry for carrying on so much but it helps to share him with others.

mastifflover March 12th, 2006 12:17 PM

Well if anyone understands that you have certainly come to the right place

Cricket March 12th, 2006 12:24 PM

I am so glad that I found this site - just wish loosing him wasn't the reason for it.:(

Beaglemom March 12th, 2006 01:50 PM

I'm so very sorry for your loss. Taz sounds like an awesome dog and he was blessed to have you in his short life. :grouphug:

Cricket March 12th, 2006 03:15 PM

I know that I am being biased but I'm just a proud mother - he was the best - even when he was at his worst & he had plenty of those days too!

He was to us as many of you are in the same situation - not a dog - but a 4 legged human & I'm proud to say my son & - Mommy's little man!

chico2 March 12th, 2006 03:33 PM

Oh Cricket,we soo understand:love:
There is no such thing as"just an animal"as so many people put it.
We love our animals and the loss of one is often unbearable,but it feels good to "talk"to people who understand.
This is a great Forum for people like us and I hope when you one day decide to get another puppy/dog,you will still be around here.But you do not need to have a dog to come here:p
I see you live in Lloydminster Alberta,one of my sons live in Vermilion and goes to Bingo in Lloydminster.

Cricket March 12th, 2006 03:54 PM

It is nice to talk to people about him - it makes the loss sort of easier.

He passed away two week ago today & I somehow had it in my mind that it would be easier when we got him back home - I had him cremated - but in having got him back on friday - it has actually made it harder - I think in my mind it was just a bad dream & hadn't happened but now it's final.:sad:

Part of me can't stand the thought of getting another one & having that - I've replaced him thoughts & another part of me can't stand the thought of not having that unconditional love & joy again - I guess 'time heals all wounds' might one day happen.

We've kind of spoke for a female (don't know if I could have a boy so soon) from the breeder that we got him from but it's a waiting game now because he isn't expecting puppies soon but as it was with Taz - the puppy will pick us & if it's meant to be it will happen & if not - then we will wait.

Yes, I do live in Lloyd.

chico2 March 12th, 2006 04:02 PM

I think we all have guilt-feelings if we get another cat/dog after we lost one,but we are not replacing the one we lost,they are forever in our hearts:love:
I am sure Taz would like to see you give another pup a loving home,when you feel you are ready.:pawprint:

Cricket March 12th, 2006 04:16 PM

That is what my fiance says too - that maybe we loved Taz so much in the 2 years that we had him that it was enough & that maybe we had to loose him to save/love another dog that needs the love that we have to give.

I have come realize since he's been gone how much of our lives were lived for him - the house we bought - had to have a big/safe fence, the vehicle we own - he needed more room & even the summer camper that we have - again he needed more room.

I don't think it's a case of he was my pet & me his master - it was I was his pet & he was my master!;)

petdr March 22nd, 2006 09:46 AM

Anesthetic related deaths are devastating to owners and veterinary staff.

Without a post-mortem you would not know the exact cause of death. There may have been underlying cardiac disease that was unmasked with anesthesia: cardiac arrhythmias can be induced by drugs that irritate the heart muscle or interfere with the pacemaker system of the heart. A blood clot could have been formed under these circumstances: impaired heart contractility/rhythm allows for the formation of clots. Prior blood testing/ x-ray films/ultrasound probably would not have shown this tendency.

Heart biopsy may have revealed the problem, but is not realistic as a pre-screening device for anesthesia. The mortality/morbidity would be too high a risk to be used as a screening device.

Anesthetic deaths are usually very low statistically, but if it is your pet, then it is profoundly painful.

Dr. Van Lienden

Dr. Raymond Van Lienden DVM
The Animal Clinic of Clifton
12702 Chapel Road, Clifton
Virginia, U.S.A. 20124
703-802-0490

Luvthyanimal August 22nd, 2006 12:10 AM

Anesthesia Bad for Siberian Huskies?
 
Hi Cricket, I am very sorry for the loss of your dear husky Taz. I have a Siberian Husky now and had 2 years ago who have passed away.
My cat died instantly when he received a small dose of anesthesia and a friend of mine whose dog was 10, went to the vet to have his teeth cleaned to prevent heart problems. He died receiving anesthesia and after he died, the vet told her that it happens. I don't understand how he could say that so bluntly. You lose your beloved pet and then they tell you it happens!? My new vet stated that dogs & cats should receive a blood test prior to see if they can handle or will have a reaction to it.
QUESTION ABOUT MY HUSKY!!!
I am currently very concerned about my husky I just adopted, fostered her, she had the best temperament a dog could have. Decided to adopt her so they immediately had her spayed and vaccinated and microchipped. When I picked her up at the vet she was happy to see me, but then got very frightened and started moving from side to side once I opened the door to leave the vet. Sort of like the got scared it felt something either physically or mentally. Got her to leave, then she saw my mom by the car and went running to greet her, when she got about two feet from the car, she started doing the same thing. Stopped in her tracks then pulled from side to side. Get her home and she is like a different dog from when I fostered her. Once she got into the house, she was jumping and was very wild. Her pupils stayed dilated quite a bit even it light. She was very bad at first. Fixating, showing her teeth, very aggressive about strange things. Like moving a table, not with her food or toys. I have had huskies and now they are bossy, but they usually have good temperament. I have had her for a month and I've been training her, but she still shows aggressiveness at times for no reason that usually would cause aggressiveness.
MY QUESTION: She was first being boarded at a vet before I fostered her, could they have been giving her something to keep her calm and this is just her real personality?
She was not given a blood test to see if she was allergic to anesthesia Could it have caused a mental problem in her? My friend had chow who had a bad mental reaction to anesthesia. Has anyone heard of Siberian Huskies having this problem?
I really appreciate anyone responding to my question. I am so upset. She has a sweet personality, is so smart , I LOVE HER!!! It makes me sick to think that something went wrong at the vet and could have been prevented. I'm training her, but I have to really watch her when she gets in her mood.
Perhaps it could just be the person who left her in the streets abused her. The reason for so many troubled dogs.
Thank you!!

MyBirdIsEvil August 22nd, 2006 03:10 AM

This could also be a reaction to the vaccines or something else they gave her (such as flea or heartworm medicine), but I don't know much other than what I've been reading lately on this board about drug reactions/seizures, so hopefully someone that has more info will post.

Btw, if you search the board for "seizures" "drug reactions" or similar you should find some posts that have links to more info.

Prin August 22nd, 2006 11:47 AM

How long after picking her up did this continue? If it stopped soon after, she might just have been on a bad trip from the sedatives.

rainbow August 22nd, 2006 12:57 PM

[QUOTE=luvthyanimal]Has anyone heard of Siberian Huskies having this problem? [/QUOTE]

I have a siberian husky and he is my third and I've never had a problem like this. I would take her to the vet to have a full blood panel done. Good luck and please post with an update. :dog:

$ick3ninvend3ta February 3rd, 2008 01:38 PM

Death by Anesthesia...
 
[QUOTE=Cricket;225537]On sunday Feb 26 I had my world stop for no reason & I'm wondering how common other people find themselves in the same place I was. I did what I was supposed to do - I rushed my beloved Siberian Husky - Taz to the vet for something that happens around me all the time - he'd been for a run in the county with his dad & had found a porcupine - should be simple & easy & except for him being sore for a few days wasn't supposed to make my world stop! My dog was taken too the local vet with quill's from a porcupine - he went in, was given a shot to calm down & 15 minutes later was knocked out - while under he started to come around & was given another one & then was given gas - I was assured this was normal. Afterward he was given a shot of valium & penicillin & was then sent home. 3 hours later he let out a soft cry, threw his head & stopped breathing. We rushed him back to the vet & were giving him mouth to mouth but were unable to save him. They told us that it could have been a blood clot caused by the medication used to knock him out & that it was actually a common thing to happen.

Does anyone else know of this???[/QUOTE]

Hi Cricket, I'm not sure if your still a member of these boards but I have just lost my border collie, Tilly, of 9 years, so suddenly to the same medication & under the exact same circumstances as you. The worst thing about it is, on the morning of her death she was a picture of health & the operation to remove an abscess on the back of her leg wasn't necessary, so my beautiful dog would be still here today.

After an long, extensive & expensive post mortem (with a different vet), [B]a vet who wasn't out to line his pockets[/B], fag, she had a hidden systemic disease which was in no way documented to me before the operation. It started with toxaemia, severe dehydration, kidney failure & finally heart failure, all down to the aesthesia. The pathologist gave me a 95% assurance this was the exact cause of death. I think Husky could have gone under similiar circumstances.

chico2 February 3rd, 2008 03:30 PM

I am not evn going to attempt to write your username,.I just wanted to say,I am really,really sorry you lost your pup:cry:and under those circumstances.
It really makes me worry about having any of my cats put under.
Sorry sweet Tilly :rip:

Kelly C February 3rd, 2008 10:55 PM

One of my friends lost a dog the same way at a sled race. For some bizzar reason a porccupin appeared on the trail and many dogs were hit. We usually pull the quills ourselves but one dog was hit in the eye and sent to a local vet. It had an ellergic reaction to the anaethsetic and died. Some huskies have reactions to anaethsetics and penicillin type antibiotics. Who knows, maybe that had something to do with what happened to you.

Loosing a dog is devastating. --Kelly

$ick3ninvend3ta February 4th, 2008 05:02 AM

I have lost all the faith in my vet, the whole experience has just been a massive learning curve for me. Everything leading upto her death was just wrong, everything could have been done better.

I'm just glad we gave her a good send off...

Kelly C February 4th, 2008 02:34 PM

Like in every profession some are better than others. I prefer country vets or one's with large animal experience. they tend to be more practical and more inclined to use their brains rather than rely exclusively on expensive testing.

I've also learned never to choose a professional randomly but to get a referral from a friend or neighbour.

Kelly

amatazes February 4th, 2008 02:58 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I too have gotten the "this happens" response from a vet. I then proceeded to say every bad word I've ever learned to him.

This is may. She and her sister June were both taken in for spaying. June was over anesthetized and died. That's it! That's all I got. I was a wreck. :cry:

There's nothing we can do. Just like when we lose out family members. We mourn and move on. What can we do, sue everyone? that's not practical or realistic.

:sad:

chico2 February 4th, 2008 03:57 PM

OMG,it makes you wonder how much of the procedures"they"call routine are really that simple...poor little June:rip:

phoozles February 4th, 2008 04:05 PM

:eek: June looks just like Alley - and I just brought her in for her spay today! Now I'm going to be a nervous wreck until I pick her up Wednesday morning! :sad:


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