Furniture?! Don't Insult Me.
 

[QUOTE=LuckyRescue]
It is NOT for convenience. Amputating the ends of a cat's toes so it can't scratch furniture is for convenience. Do you see the difference?[/QUOTE]

It is not just for scratching furniture, that is ridiculous. If you have another animal, like a dog or another cat and they were to get into a fight, they could be seriously injured. Or even a small child! And I'm not talking about an aggressive cat either, I'm talking about an accident. That is why, it has nothing to do with furniture.

I agree about neutering, but as a whole, for an indoor cat, how would they create unwanted litters? Yet so many indoor cats are spayed/neutered. I don't see a difference.

Reducing the urge to roam is so that you don't lose your kitty. That is for your convience and yes, for the convience of the cat itself so that is not injured or killed. Declawing is to protect against injury as well. But yes, it also prevents them from scratching furniture, hence the human convience part. Same thing.

[QUOTE=3mzo05]It is not just for scratching furniture, that is ridiculous. If you have another animal, like a dog or another cat and they were to get into a fight, they could be seriously injured. Or even a small child! And I'm not talking about an aggressive cat either, I'm talking about an accident. That is why, it has nothing to do with furniture.

I agree about neutering, but as a whole, for an indoor cat, how would they create unwanted litters? Yet so many indoor cats are spayed/neutered. I don't see a difference.[/QUOTE]

In my experience, most people want cats declawed because of the furniture. Of all the cats we have adopted out, and all the people who inquired about declawing, 99% wanted it to convenience themselves. The other 1% wanted a defenseless cat to be a toy for a dog. Not very good reasons for mutiliation.

Cats who are declawed are apt to bite instead. Cat bites can be extremely dangerous and cause massive infection, which often requires hospitilization. Did you know that?

As for indoor cats being spayed and neutered, just read this board and see how many "responsible" owners of INDOOR cats now have pregnant cats. These people are directly contributing to the slaughter in the shelters by refusing to be responsible and make sure their cats are not contributing to the overpopulation.

Cats do will go to great lengths to get out. Females in heat and toms looking for a mate are very creative at finding ways to get out. I just understand why anyone would take that chance.

Repeated heats without breeding are very detrimental to female cats' health.

How long have you owned cats?

And again, what health benefit to the CAT is there in declawing?

I have had cats for over 30 years and never yet declawed one of them.

[QUOTE=LuckyRescue]In my experience, most people want cats declawed because of the furniture. Of all the cats we have adopted out, and all the people who inquired about declawing, 99% wanted it to convenience themselves. The other 1% wanted a defenseless cat to be a toy for a dog. Not very good reasons for mutiliation..[/QUOTE]

Okay, I have already stated my reasons for declawing. I fall under neither category for your statistics. So I don't see how they are relevant. I am sure there are other responsible owners like me, that declaw their cats. In fact, I know many, including my vet.

[QUOTE=LuckyRescue]
How long have you owned cats?
[/QUOTE]

I take this as you implying that I am not as experienced with cats as you are. I have had enough cats, with claws and without to have an educated opinion.

[QUOTE=LuckyRescue]
And again, what health benefit to the CAT is there in declawing?
[/QUOTE]

Again, it prevents injuries. I understand that you must have dealt with many irresponsible owners, but I am not one of them. I am simply stating that is an owner's choice whether or not to declaw. It is not as inhumane and cruel as so many people make it out to be. In my experience with my cats and with many, many others, there has been no negative effects.

You want to "declaw" your cats, fine. But to use your words, "Don't insult me" by trying to say it's done for safety reasons, or that it's the same as spay/neuter.

I cannot count the cats that passed through my home, including adult feral cats, and nary a one declawed (by me) and no injuries either to each other or to me.

Spay/neuter = many health benefits for animal. Eliminates homeless cats. Reduces number of cats dying, being dumped and being killed.

"Declawing" = NO benefits for animal.

I'm done.

3mzoo5.You cannot be serious,comparing sawing off the tip of paws,bones and claws to neutering/spaying :eek: There is absolutely no comparison!!
My vet as a matter of fact will not declaw a kitten,she will refere you to someone else,that is how strongly she feels about it.
There is a beautiful white cat sitting waiting to be adopted in her office and this poor cat was trying to reach me with his soft paws,I have never before touch a cats paws that were declawed and I felt an incredible sorrow for this poor mutilated cat.A cat NEEDS his claws there is no ifs or buts about it!!
An aquarium with fish would be a better pet for anyone having the need to deform a cat.

Good site Freyja! Keep that web address handy as you'll constantly want to post it the longer you're on this board. :rolleyes:

:eek: How can anyone lump mutilation in the same argument as spaying and neutering! :confused: What about the thousands of deaths every day of all those unwanted kittens/puppies and cats/dogs that there just aren't enough homes for? :confused: I think there's more at stake than convenience! :mad:

Then, I guess I just don't understand how my cats can be so happy and healthy when they have been "mutilated" and treated inhumanely. I also don't understand how claws would be considered more important than reproductive organs. Like I said before, they suffered no negative effects from being declawed, at all. Plus, I don't have to worry about having a child or my neighbour's Jack Russell play with my kitties. Perhaps because I have seen many, many cats declawed and be just as happy and healthy as a cat with claws I don't see the surgery as "inhumane mutilation".

[QUOTE=glasslass]Good site Freyja! Keep that web address handy as you'll constantly want to post it the longer you're on this board. :rolleyes:

:eek: How can anyone lump mutilation in the same argument as spaying and neutering! :confused: What about the thousands of deaths every day of all those unwanted kittens/puppies and cats/dogs that there just aren't enough homes for? :confused: I think there's more at stake than convenience! :mad:[/QUOTE]

I think there is a misunderstanding of the comparison I was trying to make. I understand the benefits of spaying and neutering, that is why my cats are neutered. My point was, it is all the same thing. It is still removing something from a cat for their benefit and for your benefit.

If declawing a cat meant the cat couldn't reproduce, I bet there'd be a whole hell of a lot of cats, with huge claws!!

I clip my cat's claws when she lets me know she needs it. A little inconvenient, but easy. No problems with furniture or scratching, but I know she can still climb and defend herself. She takes it in stride, even watching with interest when I do it.

Hubby doesn't consider himself mutilated because he can't reproduce (Big "V"). Didn't need to do more, he stays in his own house and yard! :p Cats wouldn't!

There is just no argument for declawing,cats are expert at hiding pain and discomfort,in later years,your cats will more than likely run into trouble.
A friend of mine in Florida inherited a 12yr old cat,declawed and in very much discomfort,has difficulty walking as she cannot get a good grip.
She is a designer-cat in every sense of the word and now as she's getting older she's paying the price for her original owners total selfishness.
Sure,not all end up like her,many get out cannot defend themselves or climb a tree,end up getting killed or maimed.There are thousands of reasons not to willfully hurt a cat.

There is absolutely NO COMAPARISON between spaying/neutering vs. delclawing. NONE. I worked in the aimal hospital for 15-16 years. I know how they do it and the recovery process. Indoor cats SHOULD be neutered also, reason number one is for your sake, ever smell an un-neutered cat's urine/spraying? Number 2....it can add duration to your cats life span among other health benefits.
Declawing, as I stated in a previous post in this thread, can recover fine with minimal no effects later on. I bet you didn't see your cat waking up from surgery or that evening even. If your cat gets outside, it is prey to other animals....and who will be to blame?
A lot of veterinarians are now refusing to declaw. There are humane alternatives now. In many European countries it is illegal. to declaw a cat.
It IS NOT just the TOENAIL being removed, it's the amputation of the actual TOE JOINTS! Remember too, during recovery, your cat HAS to walk on it's feet still. It hurts like hell for us just to cut our nails too short.....imagine how that cat feels. If your cats recovered well, I am pleased. BUT there are those who don't. Here is a sample list of countries where it is deemed illegal or inhumane to declaw.
Brazil
Australia
New Zealand
Yugoslavia
Japan
Austria
Switzerland
Norway
Sweden
Netherlands
Northern Ireland
Ireland
Denmark
Finland
Slovenia
Portugal
Belgium
England
Scotland
Wales
Italy
France
Germany
I ended up refusing to assist in declaw and taildocking. I took my job very seriously, it takes a lot for me to refuse to fulfill a duty / task at hand.

Sorry if I appeared rude, but it makes me nuts to hear people tell me it's ok. I've seen some things working there that I hope never to witness again ever. I particiapted in duties that make me feel ashamed now. Declawing should be deemed illegal worldwide as far as I'm concerned.

Now i by no means think declawing is appropriate. I have a cat that is not declawed and i would never consider declawing her. I wanted to point out that someone said that the cat would more likely bite then, and thats worst. that is worst but my cat would chose to bit over claw any day. I'v been bitten pretty bad once by her on the way to the vet because she hates car rides and i made the mistake of trying to cox her out of the carrier when we got to the office instead of letting the vet do it.(she would have got bitten too but had gloves on because she was aware of the fact that my cat doesn't care for anyone but me to pick her up and had bitten her before.) I also wanted to say that my grandmother had found a cat that was declawed. his name was kitter. at first we just ignored him thinking he was a naboirs cat and would go home. but he stuck around and sort of became her cat, but he always lived outside. my grandmother is blind and had an eye seeing dog that the cat didn't get along with so keeping him inside wasn't an option. he never had any trouble at all living outside with out his front claws. (he still had his back). I don't know if that was just rare or what cuz as i said before i'v never had a declawed cat. when he passed away the vet estemated him to be over 18 years old. he never had any problems what so ever without his claws. i don't personaly belive in declawing but i just wanted to let people know that some cats can do well without their claws.

Thats been pointed out, by me too, BUT, it's so infuriating. I don't even think ppl NEED to know that some do well! Need I point out yet again, what these cats go through? How about, if you plan on getting a cat declawed, ask your vet to let you watch the surgery and HOW they do it.Bet they won't allow it. And if they do, can I bet you'll be extremely distraught....at least you will if you love your pet. Watch your cat wake up in pain and try to walk. Watch her/him shake their feet trying to figure out why so painful and whats wrong as blood splatters on the kennel walls. Then tell me, but some cats eventually do ok. I KNOW they eventually do ok. It doesn't make it humane or right. Period. Some roosters survive through cockfighting, yet it doesn't make it right. Some people don't die from using drugs, doesn't make it ok to take them.This is a touchy subject for me b/c I KNOW what it entails. The one veterinarian I worked with also refused to perform them. The other 3 had to do it. I was willing to lose my position as veterinary surgical assistant over it! Sure, tell people about the success stories but make damn sure you follow up with all the ones that were botched and the pain the successes went through for what? Your new sofa?

amby.com
[SIZE=2][CENTER][U][B]Declawing! What You Need To Know[/B][/U][/CENTER][/SIZE]

What does it mean when a cat is declawed? How is it done? Examine these drawings. The cat's claw is not a toenail at the end of the toe as in other animals. It is movable digit attached to muscle as a finger might be. Note the strong ligaments and tendons which give power to extend and retract the claws. This is unique in cats. Without this your cat would not be able to properly grasp, hold or establish footing for proper walking, running, springing, climbing or stretching. Think of the cat as having 10 toes on each foot. Declawing is akin to cutting off half their toes. When the end digit, including the claw is removed, the sensory and motor nerves are cut, damaged and destroyed. They do not repair themselves or grow back for many months. Following the surgery there is a wooden lack of feeling, then a tingling sensation during the long convalescence while the cat must walk on the stub end of the second digit. Remember that during all this time the cat may not "rest" his feet as we would after a similar operation but must continue to scratch in his litter box, walk and attempt to jump as usual regardless of his pain.
Since cats have keener senses than humans, they suffer even more than humans. Many pain killing drugs, including aspirin, do not agree with cats and can cause illness or even death. Anyone who has had surgery will appreciate the problem that can be created by the inability to take pain-relieving medication. It is also possible for the claws to grow back, but often not in the normal manner, instead they may grow through the top or bottom of the paw, creating a bloody, painful sore. An Atlanta news station recently had a story of a declawing followed by infection so severe that the cat's foot had to be amputated.

The cat's body is especially well designed. The skeleton is better jointed and more elastic than most other animals and the muscles governing the lithe body are highly developed. This gives the cat great climbing power. The sharp claws can be whipped out for business or tucked neatly away. The elastic tendon holds the claw in its own sheath. The claw is flat on each side so it will slide in and out better. When the cat pulls his claw down with the use of the big tendon that lies along the under part of the toe, the ligament stretches like a fresh rubber band. It is hooked on the end for hanging on.

Cats like to keep their claws sharp and clean (and remove the outer sheath of the nail) by working on the scratching post you provide. Equipping your cat with the proper scratching post and taking the time to train him to use it will help preserve your furniture and carpets. Scratching posts made of soft carpeting teach your cat that soft fabrics, i.e. your sofa and rugs, are proper for scratching. A better idea are posts made of sisal rope or carpet turned inside out. This encourages your cat to scratch on hard, coarse surfaces. Training your cat to use this post takes some effort on your part. If you see him attempting to scratch on furniture or carpet, clap your hands sharply, say no! then pick him up gently and place him on the sisal post. (If stronger measures are needed, you might also want to keep a squirt bottle with plain water handy.) If your cat seems to prefer a particular area, try covering it with aluminum foil for a while. Catnip-treated cardboard scratchers, best used lying flat, are also effective. Most cats are pretty smart and after a short time, and much praise, will get the idea. It is also essential to properly clip your cat's claws with a well-made cat claw scissors. The sharp hook must be clipped off without injuring the pink quick. Cutting into the quick will hurt the cat and you will have a difficult time holding him quiet the next time.

Besides the physical mutilation, consider what declawing may do to the cat's emotions, the personality changes that may occur. Knowing he has not the means to defend himself, some cats follow the precept of the best defense is a good offense, and will bite at the least provocation (and it may truly be the least provocation.) Others become depressed and lose the loving personality that made you choose him to start with.

"The Learning Channel" had a series of documentaries about cats in January of 1993 and again in July 1995 and several of their comments were appropriate to this flyer. In one segment a cat owner spoke to a pet psychologist about her biting cat. It was no surprise to me when she admitted that the cat was declawed. Another segment showed a kitten being declawed. The commentator said that declawing was an American procedure and, in fact, most veterinarians in other countries refuse to do the operation.

I have recently heard about another nasty piece of business that some veterinarians are advocating as an "alternative" to Declawing; Tendonectomy--the cutting of the tendons themselves to prevent the claws from being extended. This is a bad, if not worse, than declawing itself. The claws continue to grow and constant maintenance of trimming must be done for the rest of the cat's life. (The same trimming procedure that if done anyway will keep your cat's intact claws shortened, blunted and less damaging to your furniture.) Failure to trim claws in this situation will result in additional veterinary attention throughout the cat's life as the claws will grow around and into the paw pad of the foot. You can imagine how much daily pain a cat would have to go through in this condition.

[I][B]If you really love your cat, you will want him to lead a long, happy life, giving and receiving love and affection. If you really love him, and care about him, don't declaw him. [/B] [/I]

[QUOTE=3mzo05]It is not just for scratching furniture, that is ridiculous. If you have another animal, like a dog or another cat and they were to get into a fight, they could be seriously injured. Or even a small child! And I'm not talking about an aggressive cat either, I'm talking about an accident. [/QUOTE]

Speaking of ridiculous....

Just wondering if you have had your dog declawed as well?
And while you're at it, you of course will want to have all of your pets' teeth removed. They can be just as dangerous as claws (or moreso). Because, like you said, fights and "accidents" will happen. Teeth have been known to cause a LOT of "serious injury".

Perhaps you'd be interested in having a pet turtle? Oops, no, they have claws.
A fish? Ah, but those scales can be abrasive, and they are very hard to de-scale.
A pet rock? Nope, those can fall off a shelf and hit someone's head....

Shae,thank you very much :D and Lucky and anyone else,nothing gets me as riled up as the question of declawing.
Shae,I know of it being illegal in many modern western countries,we here in Canada have a lot to learn about animal-cruelty laws and finally update,the 100 yr old laws we currently have.

When I signed the adoption contract for Lindy there was a clause that stated:
"The Adopter acknowledges and agrees tht the Adopted Animal: ...will not be subjuscted to any cosmetic surger, including, abut not limited to, ear cropping and tail dockin; will not be subjected to declawing or debarking..."

Hi :) When we got Talon we had taken him to the vet for his pre-fixin check up and shots! While there I spoke to the vet about declawing since we were considering it. He gave us alot of information on it, said he prefers not to do them, but would if we wanted it done. He listed all the pros and cons (not that there were any pro's really) and the dangers etc. My husband thought about it for a couple weeks and decided we couldn't go through with that! I'm so glad we didn't. The vet also at that time showed us how to trim his nails correctly, and we have been trimming both our kitty's nails frequently - around once every two weeks. They don't mind at all, and know to run to the cupboard for a treat after we're done :D We also have scratching posts all over the house, and they hardly ever scratch on the furniture, although once in awhile when Talon gets excited he sometimes forgets and runs up to the couch like he is going to, but a firm "Talon" and he will run to his poct. We also a spray, which really stinks, I can't remember the name of it. But I think I might check into that varitol (sp).

Thanks! :)

[QUOTE=Luba]Good question to ask before doing it!

DON'T!! It's cruel and very painful to the cats. Others with cat knowledge more extensive then my little bit of info can give you the graphic details of what they have to endure and go through.

It's not necessary, so pls dont' do it![/QUOTE]


Painful? oh please! As if spaying isn't a little tender? Every cat I've ever owned went in for the spay/declaw at the same time.. Spaying slowed the girls down for about a day, more than long enough for the paws to cool down. Every one of them was back to running and jumping around the house in 24 hours. Imagine how they preferred not being scolded or squirted with the water gun for climbing the furnature. Perhaps my girls recovered so quick because they were confined to one room with the little box (impeccibly clean) only a few steps away.

If you want to declaw, do it. Just remember it means forever indoors or on a harness. Only front claws are done so cats can still climb trees etc and fight quite well with rear claws.

I'd associate claw removal as not unlike a human having a non-impacted wisdom tooth extracted. Ya it feels a little odd and a little tender for a day or two but you get over it.

I wasn't even going to respond to your very uneducated remarks. However, I feel it is in the utmost best interest in vats for their owners to understand and NOT to listen to people as yourself. I have been a veterinary surgical assistant for approx 16 years. I finally refused to partake in declwing. What does that tell you? Read my above posts please. If someone came along and wanted to amputate your toes, would that be humane and fine with you? It might be difficult to balance for awhile but the pain should subside in oh, a few days to a couple months....so you wouldn't mind would you?
You say your cat was running around and on and off furniture in 24 hours?! Really now? 1st, I think that's load of BS, but then again, I stated that, yes, indeed some recover faster than others.......BUT, what does this say about you as a pet owner? You are required to limit your pets activity for 5-10 days AT LEAST! For their own safety!! Ie: suture lines may open or swell, then in which casew would become abscessed from licking and / or jumping/activity., etc al. Which very well could require a whole new surgical process to put your feline companion through. Declawing is not for their own good........it's something YOU simply choose to put them through for your own selfish reasons. Spaying and neutering howver, is for THEM and their wellbeing. As for you spaying and declawing at the same time, I'm a betting woman, you did that b/c you save on the anaesthetic cost when you spay and declaw in the one visit rather than 2 ! !
Use you head. Sorry if I appear rude, but people as yourself drive me nuts. Educate yourself. READ the above with the diagram. Ask to witness the actual surgery. Ask yourself why it is being deemed illegal to perform this surgical procedure in many countries (stated abover in earlier posts also)

I don't think you're read this entire thread before your hasty response...

[QUOTE=Michel]Painful? oh please! As if spaying isn't a little tender? [/QUOTE]
yes, that's not argued. Spaying is painful BUT unlike declawing it prevents cancer and other alments in your pets. There is NO health benefit of declawing, just selfish humans concerned about themselves.

[QUOTE]If you want to declaw, do it. Just remember it means forever indoors or on a harness. Only front claws are done so cats can still climb trees etc and fight quite well with rear claws.[/QUOTE] I don't know about you, but I think a cat could climb a tree MUCH easier with BOTH sets of claws.. can't grip too well with no claws on the front...

[QUOTE]I'd associate claw removal as not unlike a human having a non-impacted wisdom tooth extracted. Ya it feels a little odd and a little tender for a day or two but you get over it.[/QUOTE]

Non impacted wisdom teeth extraction is done WITH CONSENT for the human, maybe your cats are different, but mine has never asked me once to escentially, rip out his fingernails....and it feels a little odd and tender, but you don't have to walk on them do you??.. what about infections... that takes a LITTLE longer to heal - and there are plenty of health implications to both teeth removal and declawing..

Oh please, just step down off your soap box.

Ya, was there, saw surgury done on one cat 19 yrs ago. No big whoop. Conjunctive nail joint really is not comparative to human toe function. Every one of my cats (male and female) over the last 25 years have had this done. Every single time each vet said to keep them quiet for a solid 24 hours (multiple professionals).. and amazing (by some perspectives), all were back to normal in a day or so. Every animal was done before 6 months.

Oh and to whomever quipped about having their dog nails removed. Yes, had the dew claws from my GSD's done too.

Gee I must be just an evil crewl toe rag for declawing, keeping strictly inside, never vaccinating them all.. Funny how all the cats have lived to 18+ years (except my current lad who is a young 15).

Here is my pooooor so hard done by boy.. ha ha

the bottom line is, owners have a choice. You do not have the right to dissuade, bully or otherside attempt to slant someone else's choice.

[QUOTE=Michel]Oh please, just step down off your soap box.

Ya, was there, saw surgury done on one cat 19 yrs ago. No big whoop. Conjunctive nail joint really is not comparative to human toe function. Every one of my cats (male and female) over the last 25 years have had this done. Every single time each vet said to keep them quiet for a solid 24 hours (multiple professionals).. and amazing (by some perspectives), all were back to normal in a day or so. Every animal was done before 6 months.

Oh and to whomever quipped about having their dog nails removed. Yes, had the dew claws from my GSD's done too.

Gee I must be just an evil crewl toe rag for declawing, keeping strictly inside, never vaccinating them all.. Funny how all the cats have lived to 18+ years (except my current lad who is a young 15).[/QUOTE]
Oh, sorry troll. I'll get down off my soap box, I can see my reign is over - do you need a help up? I can get you a stool?

Now you are lying.....Owners are not permitted to sit in on the surgeries......very very rare occassions. For spay /declaw, you wouldn't be permitted in the operating room. Nice try

And I never said they cannot recover. Can't you read? Go back to earlier posts if you choose to continue this thread, so we don't need to keep repeating ourselves. Many cats recover just fine in the long run, Many don't. I am referring to the procedure itself being cruel. As for dewclaws....those are removed also for the pets safetly. The hook onto loose carpets,etc....and it is just the 1 nail. We are talking toe joints on feet of cats. There is no camparison between spaying,neutering,DEWclaws, and [COLOR=Red]DECLAWING[/COLOR]! Get your facts straight please.

Here is a sample list of countries where it is deemed illegal or inhumane to declaw.
Brazil
Australia
New Zealand
Yugoslavia
Japan
Austria
Switzerland
Norway
Sweden
Netherlands
Northern Ireland
Ireland
Denmark
Finland
Slovenia
Portugal
Belgium
England
Scotland
Wales
Italy
France
Germany
I ended up refusing to assist in declaw and taildocking. I took my job very seriously, it takes a lot for me to refuse to fulfill a duty / task at hand.