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Dog Dancer August 23rd, 2011 11:19 AM

Shadow is having incontinence issues
Well Shadow has started to have problems with her bowels. She seems to be starting to show signs of incontinence. The last few days she has pooped under my desk at work, right in a corner, and I've never even noticed her getting up, I honestly think it's just happening when she's asleep. Today she didn't go while we were walking, and when she jumped into the back seat of the car she pooped. Boy was she upset! We have a good doggy seat cover/protector so it was no big deal, but I'm afraid it's not a good sign. Just the exertion of jumping into the car and turning around was enough to trigger it. I think the arthritis may be affecting her spine and her nerves now. Will be taking her to the vet tonight to talk to him about our options. I don't know if trying Tramadol or some other med might help. If you have any suggestions please let me know, I'm open to it all. I do know though that if she does become incontinent we will not go with diapers, we will make the decision to put her down as it is clearly a sign that her body is failing her. So throw me some suggestions friends, I don't want to go the other way if I don't have to yet.

Dog Dancer August 23rd, 2011 12:32 PM

Well, half an hour after getting to work now Shadow started pacing so I headed her outside and she barely made it out to have the runs. Ah gotta love old age.... At least this time she was able to get up and walk to let me know.

Rgeurts August 23rd, 2011 01:42 PM

Awww... poor old girl. I can honestly say that age may have something to do with Shadows, but our poor little Nookie has those issues as well. He does what we have termed "The Potty Run" :laughing:
When he has to go, he doesn't give us much notice (he may not have much notice himself, we haven't quite figured him out yet). He will run, full speed, to the front door, then to the back door. He has a real sense of urgency when doing this. Over the weekend, I ran to let him out and the poor little guy was hunched a bit and spinning in a circle at the door. You could tell he was trying to hold it, but it just didn't work and he dropped a couple of small ones at the door. OnceI got there and opened the door, he bolted out pooping as he was running. I hope Shadows is just due to her maybe having a little tummy upset. Hugs to you both :grouphug: :grouphug: :)

Dog Dancer August 23rd, 2011 01:59 PM

Oh yes, I know the potty run. That's what she was doing today! Poor Nookie he's too young to have these issues.

It seems our regular vet is away this week. Now I'm trying to decide if I should take Shadow in or just wait until my regular guy is back on Monday. He's been working with us with her arthritis from the get go, so he's very familiar with her.

breeze August 23rd, 2011 02:36 PM

DD is it only the incontinence issues that is your worry or is it something else??

is it also the inflammation that is concerning you??
there is a homeopath pills that was brought to my attention, haven't tried it yet cause bree hasn't had any problems with her shoulder (knock on wood) so not sure if it would work, but they do say it was clinically proven to reduce inflammation it has arnica in it
it's for muscle pain, injuries and inflammation

if it was me and there is nothing else wrong with shadow I probably wait until your reg vet comes back, unless it worsens.

poor shadow :(:grouphug::grouphug:

Dog Dancer August 23rd, 2011 04:26 PM

Hi Breeze, really right now it's the incontinence thing mostly. We've had some really nice weather so her arthritis has been behaving nicely. I just remember when we first started with this issue (the arthritis) it all came up because she couldn't walk one day, she kept falling over. The vet said she had swelling in her spine that probably was cutting off the circulation in her legs. He did not suggest, or do, xrays or anything, just based on the fact of her advanced age and arthritis issues. I mentioned to him at the time that she would sometimes poop right in the middle of the road when we were out walking. He gave me a funny look but didn't offer any opinions. So I'm thinking that the incontinence could be from arthritis in her spine area. I'm not sure that doing xrays is really going to tell us anything more than we know, she's very old and has arthritis. Anyhow, I'm inclined like you said to wait until next week unless it gets worse. Will look up traumeel you mentioned. Tks.

breeze August 23rd, 2011 04:38 PM

this is one of the sites, it doesn't say for arthritis but inflammation and joint pain is part of arthritis :o and I do know that Arnica helps with arthritis :o


hazelrunpack August 23rd, 2011 05:26 PM

It almost sounds like she may have some sort of intestinal bug going on--and that could be causing the fecal incontinence.

I think I would at least bring a fecal sample in for analysis, even if it's not with your regular vet, and see if it turns up anything. Might be a simple metronidazole fix. :fingerscr

Winston August 23rd, 2011 05:48 PM

DD I dont have any experience in this issue but if you were talking about a crazy 15 yr old cat I can relate! It seems Tabitha is having issues again. Its almost like she forgets where the litter box is?? She cries and cries and if I take her down to the box she will pee and then stop crying...BUT she has been picking some spots int he house lately!! :wall:

THinking of you guys!

Dog Dancer August 23rd, 2011 05:58 PM

Thanks guys, Hazel maybe I will do that. I didn't think to take a stool sample in. Her stools have been very hard which I assume is probably due to the Metacam she's taking, so sometimes she'll go 36 to 48 hours without a poop (she has never been a big pooper though). That's what happened the other day when she had the first accident at work, she hadn't gone in a couple days then suddenly there it was. The next two days she went twice a day, but just small firm poops. Last night she pooped alot. Then this morning when we walked and she didn't go I didn't think much of it. Until it came out in the car! :frustrated: Then about two hours after that she had a huge runny poop. The runny poop is very unlike her. So yeah, it can't hurt to take a sample in. Whenever she decides to go again! :rolleyes:

cpietra16 August 23rd, 2011 06:09 PM

Winnie (13 1/2) was also suffering with this problem. She was on Propalin which worked very well but is not good for her other organs....However a few weeks ago I started giving her tofu twice a day and it has shown to help. She pretty much weaned of the propalin and is now on tofu...for the rest of her life. It is less expensive and less harmful with no side affects.

Dog Dancer August 23rd, 2011 06:25 PM

cpietra, thanks for that info. Shadow is a very fussy eater and I'm quite sure she would never touch tofu. I can try it, but I can pretty much guarantee it will be a no go. I'm not too worried about long term effects of any treatments we give her, I know it sounds awful, but we're not really looking at long term with her. I just want her happy and well for whatever "term" we have left with her at this point.

Dee-O-Gee August 23rd, 2011 11:00 PM

Runny poops sounds more like intestinal irritation as noted. It seems to be going around right now. I've had discussions with two fellow co-workers about their dogs having the "squirts" and advised them about the 24 hour chicken broth diet followed by the hamburger & rice feedings.

I too agree that you should at least take in a sample to eliminate any possibilites of worries. :shrug:

Poor girl. :( Hope she's feeling better soon DD. :grouphug:

14+kitties August 24th, 2011 12:37 AM

:grouphug::grouphug: Nothing to add mf. If Shadow was having urinary issues I'd say estrogen as Sammy has been on that for a while now and it's been really great! I hope and pray Shadow proves you wrong for a long time yet. :fingerscr:grouphug:

Sylvie August 24th, 2011 07:51 AM

Dog Dancer, my Shadow (almost 14) is having the same problems, only she is also peeing. We are getting the same diagnosis from the vet (arthritis, spine etc) We had her urine checked and it came back normal. She is on propalin and medicam.

Not sure what our next step will be but we also want her as comfortable as possible before the dreaded day.

Hope everything goes well for your Shadow.

Dog Dancer August 24th, 2011 11:52 AM

Last night Shadow had a messy accident in the bedroom at 1:30 in the morning. Not fun!! Super stinky :yuck: DH slept right through it of course, which was a good thing :o Anyhow, thank you all for the info. Sylvie I feel for you as well. I will be talking to the vet on Monday about the propalin, she is already on medacam. Good luck to you as well.

I was thinking about her runny poops, and I'm sort of thinking stress to tell you the truth. We were away on the weekend, and even though she was home with my son (they did take them to afriends house on Sat. night and had the pups stay out on their back porch), I think the runs could be nerves. She tends to get the runs if we leave them home alone in the yard for a couple hours or something. Today I'm just giving her plain chicken - no rice because she spits it out. She had a bit of kaopectate this am also. Didn't give her her medacam yet because she didn't eat enough chicken. That said I will take a sample in to the vet to be on the safe side. 14+ Shadow does take the little pink estrogen pills already, has been on those for many years off and on.

I have made a vow to myself not to let Shadow suffer. We will try anything he suggests, but ultimately I know we can't keep her forever. If her body is failing her then we may be nearing the time to lead her gently to the bridge. She's still a very happy girl - last night she was trying to instigate play with Halo, it was so much fun to watch her having fun. And really that's how I want to remember her, not laying in a corner unable to get up and walk and messing all over herself. I will find the strength to do what is best for her because I love her too much to do anything else. I know this kind of talk sounds like I've stopped trying, but I think it's also part of trying to prepare myself for the inevitable. Sorry. :grouphug:

breeze August 24th, 2011 12:09 PM

for shadow :grouphug::grouphug:

and for you :grouphug::grouphug:

Dog Dancer August 24th, 2011 12:51 PM

Sylvia and cpietra, you both said your furkids were on propalin. Was this basically to help with the loss of bowel control?

hazelrunpack August 24th, 2011 02:12 PM

That still sounds like something bug-related, not age-related, to me, DD. If she had fecal incontinence due to nerve damage from arthritis, it wouldn't be runny or more stenchful than before--it would look and smell normal, but she'd be leaving it in inappropriate places. :fingerscr it's something that can be easily treated and you'll have more time with your girl! :grouphug:

Sylvie August 24th, 2011 02:58 PM

I tend to agree with Hazel. Our Shadows poop is normal.

In answer to the propalin it is for her peeing and she has been on it for quite a while.

Dog Dancer August 24th, 2011 04:05 PM

Hazel, yes I agree that the runs are not part of arthritis issue I'm sure, unfortunately it is more complicated due to her lack of control, which is tough with the runs at the best of times. I still think it's probably stress, knowing her the way I do. But I will take a sample in tonight to the vet just to be sure.

Sylvie, I am going to ask my vet about the propalin, but Shadow doesn't have a urine incontinence issue as such that I relate to her arthritis. She has taken the estrogen pills off and on for years due to spay incontinence.

I just want to know what to ask him about with relation to her dropping poops wherever. Tks ladies.

Dog Dancer August 26th, 2011 04:57 PM

Just a quick update. Haven't taken a stool sample into vet yet because my sweet girl has not given me one! Her last poop was on Wednesday night/morning at 1 am. So now she's constipated. She won't eat pumpkin no matter what, so I'm kinda waiting. If there's nothing by tomorrow well then I'm in deep doodoo. Wish us luck! Not sleeping well, keep listening for her to get up and run for the door...

Magicwildwolf69 August 26th, 2011 05:31 PM

i don't know alot about this but sending lots of :grouphug::grouphug: your way! I can't find your number :yell: so maybe give me a call sometime. well not this weekend we have a hurricane hitting my state. i've been at work all day and its hitting sunday. i'll be at work all day tomorrow too.

lots of love for you both!

Dog Dancer August 26th, 2011 05:46 PM

Oh so good to hear from you MWW. I won't be able to call this weekend anyhow, but I have your number. I think of you so often and hope you and hubs are well. Talk at you soon. :grouphug:

Melinda August 26th, 2011 06:01 PM

*hugs* poor Shadow, its so hard when they aren't well, is she drinking lots? maybe if you can get her to drink a bit more it will help get "things" moving?? I wish you all the luck in the world.

Dog Dancer August 26th, 2011 06:13 PM

Melinda, she is drinking lots actually. I've been adding that to my list of things to worry about with her. Right now she's sleeping very soundly. I was going to use the expression "like a baby", but who ever coined that expression?? Babies wake up all the time so how is that supposed to mean sleeping well???

hazelrunpack August 26th, 2011 06:59 PM

I've noticed in our dogs that if they have bad diarrhea from whatever cause, when it gets better it takes them awhile to go again. It's as though they've been cleaned out by the diarrhea and some extra time (up to a couple of days) is needed for food to work its way back down the intestine. So :fingerscr she'll be giving you a little something tomorrow! :goodvibes:

Is she acting pretty normally otherwise? If she has any other symptoms--hunching, lethargy, vomiting or dry heaving--I'd be a little worried about a blockage.

renegaderuby August 28th, 2011 12:02 AM

Just wanted to send hugs, and gentle pats for shadow. I'm sure she's just as frustrated by all this as you are. Poor girl.
I also wanted to add a note, my ruby has to have pumkin ever so often to fend off constipation (when her back is really hurting, she holds her poo, and then gets constipated because she's held it).....and she REFUSES to eat it.
I find that if I put a LITTLE bit of penut butter (just to make is smell penuty)..and warm it up for a few seconds....stir it....
she GOBBLES it gladly.
I've tried just warming it..but she wont touch it unless I make is "smell" like penut butter.
Just thought you could give it a try.

PS: wish that they could make a "pumpkin" filled treat, or suppliment..or something that you could just give your pup when needed.

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