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SharonDB July 29th, 2013 10:09 PM

pecking order
hello, how do i tell which one of my dogs is 2ic to us, We have a male staffy 6yr which we have had since a pup and is use to having everything to himself, 3 weeks ago we rescued a female staffy who thinks all the toys and balls are all hers and they have had 2 fights, one stopped on its own because she yelped and was hurt, the other we had to pull him off, which is very hard to do, because he was in that frenzy mode, and again she got very hurt. Other than that they get on.
Are we supposed to let them fight to sort it out and if so how without one being killed.



Barkingdog July 30th, 2013 10:29 AM


did you introduce the new dog your first dog or just put them a room together?

This link tell how to introduces a new dog to dog of the house.

SharonDB July 30th, 2013 07:43 PM

No we had two meetings first on mutual ground and they like each other, she did little growls, a few times, but he didn't react to them and we were told she did that to all dogs when she first meets them. When we bought her home we let them meet at the park across the road from us and then walk them into our house and out the back. There was a weeing competition for about 10 min. he wanted to play but she wasn't sure and ran back to us. She doesn't play with balls she just wants to own it and that how the first fight started.

The second fight started when a friend was over and was trying to play with a toy with her and called the male over, the friend didn't know any better and we didn't release this was going on until they started to flight. We had all the toys put in a box away from them both because of the first incident.

They both have basic training, the male has had a lot of training and is a very good listener.

thank you for help Barkingdog :)

Barkingdog July 30th, 2013 08:08 PM

Dogs do get along better a neutral territory ,like a park. Maybe you have a dog behaviorist come to your one time to watch yours dogs and give you some suggestions. I would give your male dog some alone time with you so he will not feel like he is being replace with a new dog.

SharonDB July 30th, 2013 08:12 PM

pecking order
I read the link you supplied and we did the right thing with the intro, but looks like we let them down in the home. They do eat separately, and have their own beds, but they change from bed to bed which is in the same room. They share the kennel when outside and run and play without any problems.

SharonDB July 30th, 2013 08:19 PM

pecking order
thank you Barkingdog I will take on board your comments. how do I know which one of them are more dominate and how do I manage that?

Barkingdog July 31st, 2013 09:11 AM

[QUOTE=SharonDB;1060153]thank you Barkingdog I will take on board your comments. how do I know which one of them are more dominate and how do I manage that?[/QUOTE]

I was hoping other people that have two dogs or more would have some answers for you. I really think it would be best to have a dog behaviorist watch you and the dogs so they can get a better idea of what is happening.
A good dog behaviorist would also watch your body language and see what kind signals you're giving your dogs. I have no idea what is happen but I would think the dog you had the longest would be more dominate , but female dogs can be very protected of their owners . So I think you need get some help so your dogs will not end up hurting one another. Maybe someone else will come along and give you some other suggestions.

hazelrunpack July 31st, 2013 09:23 AM

I wouldn't let them work it out on their own, Sharon. They're of a pretty powerful breed and if it gets out of hand, one or both could get badly hurt--or you could get hurt if you try to separate them.

If the issue only seems to be with toys, then I would start by removing the toys from the environment. Until you sort out the issue, they can only play with toys if they're isolated from the other dog.

They'll also need very close supervision. If they'll be home alone I think I'd want to keep them crated or at least separated in different rooms, at least until you can make sure there are no other triggers to the fighting.

I do think that an evaluation by a reputable behaviorist would be a good idea. You need to know how serious a problem this might be before you can take steps to correct it. A professional should be able to steer you in the right direction--just make sure you check references and research the behaviorists in your area before making a decision on one.

SharonDB July 31st, 2013 07:02 PM

thanks hazelrunpack & barkingdog, I will take on your advice, much appreciated :-)

Ravi December 25th, 2013 08:12 AM

I'm having the same problem
I have been socializing my puppy to everything and anything I can think of and she is pretty good. She does bark at strange people until she is close enough to them and then she is happy and excited. I donít know the best way to react when she does this. Also, although she has met and seems to enjoy new dogs, she does bark at them as well and if they get too close to me she wants to protect me. I have done what I know to be her pack leader but obviously have done something wrong to create this issue.
I have been bringing her to puppy daycare, run by a dog trainer with 20+ years experience and where she is fantastic once she gets over me leaving, she plays and is perfectly fine with the other dogs. The minute I get there, she starts to get between me and other dogs and tells them to get lost. We worked on this issue the last time I picked her up and she was fine in the end, even able to leave my side and continue playing. She will be 18 weeks old this Friday.
My serious issue is at home with an older (9) Norfolk Terrier I have. They were fine up until a week ago when the Norfie went to be groomed, when she came home, pup attacked her and had her in her mouth, off the ground. I had to pry her mouth open to have her let go. Thankfully, pup is still too young to cause damage but not for long.
Ever since that incident, pup only wants "at" the Norfie. I have to keep them separated because, even though at times she wants Norfie to play, if Norfie nips or barks, that would be it all over again.
The trainer from daycare will be coming home to help and I only hope and pray the GSD pup can be rewired. I love them both dearly and do not want to even consider the thought of rehoming one of my dogs, they are my babies. The trainer can only get to my house after the holidays and soI was wondering if anyone had any suggestions in the meantime as to what I can do, or if anyone else has had this problem?
I want my pup to grow up to be a pleasant dog with no issues and so hope and pray we can turn this around. My Fox Terrier is a male, 8 yrs old and is the boss with no questions asked.
Thanks to those of you taking the time to read and offer suggestions!

Barkingdog December 25th, 2013 08:39 AM

What bred is your puppy , maybe he attacked your other dog as it smell difference when he came back from the groomer . I had to tell the groomer not spray any perfumes on my dog as I could not stand the smell of it. Marty did not smell a dog to me with that stinky perfume on him.

Ferocious March 3rd, 2014 05:50 AM

First off we need to understand what dominance is about with dogs. It's not about "leadership" it's about who gets what. Dominance is often shown when resources are limited (space, food, etc...) so yeah if you have toys in the mix...bad idea. You're instigating a territorial battle. Take the toys away for a while, or give them each a toy separately to play with (a kong with filled with food) and remove them once done.

Furthermore it's important to understand dog "pack" behavior before introducing another dog into the mix.

Dogs work a little differently than wolves and do not have a typical Alpha pack leader. There are essentially three types of pack mentality for dogs.

1) despotic
2) linear
3) triangular

Despotic is usually when a dog is so dominant he barely has to do anything to keep others in line. A simple growl and others back off.

Linear is when there's a sort of pecking order but not necessarily a leader. If there was a leader like in a wolf pack the "alpha" dog would hunt for everyone else. Dogs on the other hand are extremely selfish animals concerned with how they can get what they want. This is how we condition them through classical conditioning – because their weakness if often self indulgence like food or toys.

Triangular is very unstable. It's when no dog submits. It doesn't necessarily sound like you have a triangular situation, but you simply might have two dogs, prone to aggression when resources are limited. So when one dog says, "hey this is my toy" and the other dog doesn't pick up on the warning signs, or doesn't care, a fight is going to happen.

What to do?

Do not let them work it out – not when resources are limited. You need to teach your dogs how to behave properly in the house. Clearly they cannot handle the toys yet so remove them from the situation. Do not let them get to frenzy mode. When you see the warning signs (they stop, stare, body goes rigid, etc...) snap them out of it in a humane way.

Note: I have two dogs – one dominant and one with a predisposition to fear aggression – and had to overcome food and toy issues. I also study dog training and work at a doggy day care.

Sylvie March 3rd, 2014 09:09 AM

I agree that you should have someone come in to observe your dogs. The problem you are describing is called Resource Guarding. it is sometimes hard to see who is the instigator. This is when someone who knows how to look for the triggers can help.

If you google resource guarding, there is lots of help for you. Hope this will help. This is a problem that needs to be addressed, ,if not it will only get worse.

Good luck

Ferocious March 3rd, 2014 11:53 AM

The instigator is the toy not the dogs. First mistake is leaving the toys out all the time.

Remove all toys and create structured play time. One toy each, monitored (give them a frozen Kong filled with a little wet food and kibble. This lasts about an hour depending on the size of the Kong and dog). When they are done remove the toys. You are the "leader" and leaders decide when play time starts and when it ends. Right now your dog thinks he's in control of the resources.

I would also advise addressing feeding. Make sure no food is left out (no bowl on the floor with food) and no food is given for free. Feed by hand for 2 weeks.

Establish control over resources.

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