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-   -   dog bites womans nose (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=76534)

Bailey_ April 20th, 2011 10:34 AM

[QUOTE]Marko, the dog was not a "stranger" to her, if you read the last paper article you'll see where her daughter has pet the dog before when they've met on walks, [/QUOTE]

Mute point IMO. Unless you live with a dog, or spend quality time with it - it's strange to you. :shrug:

[QUOTE]Animals have no place in stores unless they are service animals. People have allergies, biting potential - etc.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]The primary blame imo is the dog's owner. Her dog. her responsibility. Period.
[/QUOTE]
Well said.

marko April 20th, 2011 10:36 AM

Woops missed that part. Doesn't change my opinion on anything though.

Goldfields April 20th, 2011 10:39 AM

[QUOTE=marko;1005150]

The secondary blame is on the store because of their ridiculous and ambiguous policy. Without a doubt that will change really fast and imo it should. Animals have no place in stores unless they are service animals. People have allergies, biting potential - etc. Of course this is all just opinion but i feel pretty strongly about it. :2cents:[/QUOTE]
Agree with all you've said, Marko, but particularly about allergies. A friend's daughter is so allergic to dogs that if she is with them for any time, she almost scratches the skin off her arms. Fortunately she is a cat lover and is not allergic to them. We can't take animals into hotel or motel rooms here because of this sort of thing, although no-one is allowed to refuse a seeing eye dog entry. That's a hard one.

Melinda April 20th, 2011 11:36 AM

no service animals can be refused here either, so that also brings up the point of allergies...such a touchy topic.

marko April 20th, 2011 11:42 AM

This is slightly off topic and a difficult point - but i hope no store ever refuses a service animal based on the potential allergies of other customers.

For me, i think the ability of a disabled person to participate and integrate into society should supersede potential allergy issues. Allergy sufferers have meds if need be...but disabled people need their service animals to 'live'. If ONLY service animals are allowed in stores than this surely reduces airborne allergens (versus allowing all pets or "pets under control").

Melinda April 20th, 2011 11:51 AM

I totally agree marko, there was a big 'to do" last year in ottawa when a bus driver refused entry to a service dog on the bus because of his/her allergies.

CRC April 20th, 2011 05:43 PM

This is a really unfortunate incident. The majority of dog owners take the time to train their dog and keep it under control as needed. Then you get two owners in one week (in Ottawa) that take their dogs for granted, haven't trained their dogs and haven't kept them under control.

The real catastrophy here will be the outcome. The owners will get a slap on the wrist by the city, these 2 dogs will be back in public and others will be hurt. What is needed is huge increases in fines and punishments for irresponsible dog owners. If your dogs hurts someone or another dog, you get fined $1000s and are subject to criminal and civil actions.

The majority of dog owners will never feel these affects. The few irresponsible owners will pay dearly with large fines and court actions.

To the City of Ottawa, lets get with it and make the punishment fit the crime. Your dog bites someone, you car runs over someone...is there much difference?

t.pettet April 20th, 2011 06:21 PM

dog bites womans
 
Wish I had been there to witness this as I understood the greeter put her face down to the dog, either way what is the first thing we teach our kids when approaching a dog: ASK if you can pet it, which the greeter didn't do so she got bitten.

Brandon W April 20th, 2011 07:09 PM

[QUOTE=Goldfields;1005090]Shaykeija, understandable then how pb enthusiasts lose their sense of humour at the slightest hint of criticism of their breed? You are reacting to one or two comments, we should walk a mile in their shoes, the pb's have been targetted for how long now?
A girlfriend up the road has a Shih Tzu which is an alpha tyrant, and that's actually fantastic, it is teaching her GSD pup to behave, (invaluable) which must be hilarious to watch actually. Every other dog was getting barked at madly, I don't think the pup had been socialised, but the ShihTzu rules the roost and he adores her. The odd couple. :D My own alpha is the sweetest looking little golden sheltie, and darn her, she is just aching to send visitors packing. She has bitten a friend already, so who dares tell me to shoot her?? :laughing: It's always the owner to blame, and that [U]was[/U] my fault, I should not have let her out till he was gone.
More than one judge has told me that their worst dog for biting at shows is not a big one, it's the Chihuahua.
If there is a no dog rule at that store and the staff aren't told to enforce it, surely they should compensate her for what happened?[/QUOTE]


Thank you I will not explain about how we(pitbull owners) feel about this situation. I do not agree with your statement. WE are not saying kill all shih tzus we are trying to bring light on the situation of the bsl. Sad part is this shih tzsu tht you are defending, will probably still be able to live after this incident. A pitbull wouldnt no questions asked....so please please dont think for a second we are trying to degrade a specific breed.

Brandon W April 20th, 2011 07:28 PM

Owner speaks out
 
[url]http://www.torontosun.com/2011/04/20/nose-biting-dogs-owner-fights-fine[/url]


Hey SHAY hopefully this makes you understand how this owner is and does not want to take any responsability.

[COLOR="Red"]Comments that i dislike:[/COLOR]

Fournier said Spot has never hurt anyone before.

"I don't think it's a vicious dog. It's just a pure, bad incident."

The women aren't strangers -- for at least two years, they've seen each other around town.


"The little bit I do have, I'll be needing forever," said Odette Fournier, 66, who's retired and living on a fixed income.


Fournier said she's not the one liable.

"I'm very sorry for her, but since it did happen in Home Depot, I think the Worker's Compensation should cover it," said Fournier.

Home Depot has a no-pets policy posted.

Shaykeija April 20th, 2011 10:17 PM

I agree to everything here. Life is wonderful.. Peace out. I was so uniformed I shocked myself, thank you all..:)

Goldfields April 20th, 2011 11:22 PM

Tell me, is the catch cry 'Blame the deed, not the breed' universal, or only used down here? Kudos to whoever thought of it.

Shaykeija April 20th, 2011 11:25 PM

It is universal, from what my poor feeble mind remembers....I am thinking and perhaps Hazel can find it for you, there is an old link some where back in the archives.

mummummum April 20th, 2011 11:25 PM

Wow... no one's "the winner" in this story. And sadly, it hasn't brought out the best in *us* here either.

I certainly feel for the woman who got bit but, I'm also thinking about the SIXTEEN year old Shihtzu. If this owner "cannot" afford the $610 fine how is she affording veterinary care. After all, at that advanced age with no (alleged) prior behaviour who is to say this little one isn't demonstrating dementia or thyroid-induced (or other illness-induced) behavioural changes. I'm referring to the dog of course.

I'm not sure I understand Shay to be saying that the owner isn't or shouldn't be held responsible Brandon. What I believe is her point (and Shay please feel free to correct me here) is that as the general public has a responsibility in how they conduct themselves in the presence of animals. I know I find more and more parents are stopping their children and making them ask me first if it's okay to.... slobber all over my dogs. :rolleyes:

Shaykeija April 20th, 2011 11:27 PM

That was the essence, and I do not let anyone touch my FOUR dogs when I am out. Am I afraid of my dogs biting. No I do not like kids or adults touching anything that belongs to me..

mummummum April 20th, 2011 11:28 PM

[QUOTE=Goldfields;1005374]Tell me, is the catch cry 'Blame the deed, not the breed' universal, or only used down here? Kudos to whoever thought of it.[/QUOTE]

Nope it's everywhere. We use it widely in our BSL efforts in Ontario and all the world wide BSL groups I belong to/ subscribe to use it as well.

Rgeurts April 20th, 2011 11:31 PM

I think many are at fault in this situation, and I can see where this topic could become very heated. But Brandon, one thing I will say is you are out of line with Shay. You obviously don't know her. She is one of the last people who would say to put any dog down, regardless of breed. As for the owner, I think she should definitely take some responsibility here, she seems to come across as very callous toward the whole incident. The employee, if she did reach for the dog without permission would also carry some on the blame in my book. And the store... well, they are just as much at fault. The only one who shouldn't get the blame is the dog. He's a dog.... it's the people who are irresponsible. Just my :2cents:

Shaykeija April 20th, 2011 11:40 PM

Thank you, as most of the newest members don't know me, IF that dog were to be slated for death, I would move heaven and earth to get it here to Shayker's Haven. And if not here to another rescue. I have helped move endangered dogs out of this f&*^ province, spent thousands of dollars on vet bills and never had to burden you all with my sad stories. You only get to hear the happy stories, I will not burden you with the story of a male shih tzu that was used repeatedly as a sex toy. I will not tell you how much money we spent to have his rectum rebuilt. I will not burden you with when this poor soul sees a man he freaks. Literally poops and pukes at the same time. He now lives with 2 women and has a women vet. If I sound cranky I frigging am. All life is precious, I would never put a dog down if I could help it.

Rgeurts April 20th, 2011 11:45 PM

[QUOTE=Shaykeija;1005395]Thank you, as most of the newest members don't know me, IF that dog were to be slated for death, I would move heaven and earth to get it here to Shayker's Haven. And if not here to another rescue. I have helped move endangered dogs out of this f&*^ province, spent thousands of dollars on vet bills and never had to burden you all with my sad stories. You only get to hear the happy stories, I will not burden you with the story of a male shih tzu that was used repeatedly as a sex toy. I will not tell you how much money we spent to have his rectum rebuilt. I will not burden you with when this poor soul sees a man he freaks. Literally poops and pukes at the same time. He now lives with 2 women and has a women vet. If I sound cranky I frigging am. All life is precious, I would never put a dog down if I could help it.[/QUOTE]

Shay, what you have done, and continue to do, is amazing! You're a wonderful person :grouphug:


:offtopic: :sorry:

mummummum April 21st, 2011 12:04 AM

[QUOTE=Brandon W;1005279] ....Sad part is this shih tzsu tht you are defending, will probably still be able to live after this incident.[/QUOTE]

I [U][B]hope[/B][/U] I misunderstand you Brandon. I've never heard Shay, or anyone else on this board in recent YEARS advocating that a pitbull be euthanized for involvement in a similar situation. And, it grieves me greatly to hear you think it to be "sad" that any dog, regardless of breed, would be able to continue to live after being involved in a similar situation.


[QUOTE=Brandon W;1005279]WE are not saying kill all shih tzus we are trying to bring light on the situation of the bsl..... A pitbull wouldnt no questions asked....so please please dont think for a second we are trying to degrade a specific breed.[/QUOTE]

I personally found the ban and kill comments "making light" to be in extremely poor taste, offensive actually. I don't think anyone of us, particularly those of us involved in rescue and / or in BSL work need to attack or denigrate other breeds. And that was certainly what I read in several of the posts. What we [B][I]do need to do[/I][/B] is educate ourselves and each other AND Fatima Q. Public about animal behaviour.

Shaykeija April 21st, 2011 12:16 AM

And If my poor feeble mind is correct, I helped with a few fund raisers to help STOP the pit bull ban in Ontario. We only raised about 25 K over the years for lawyers. I donated time and money to stop this injustice. I know lots of pitties, trust them with my small ones...no because I understand prey drive. There are no bad dogs just dumb owners.

mummummum April 21st, 2011 12:18 AM

[QUOTE=Rgeurts;1005399]Shay, what you have done, and continue to do, is amazing! You're a wonderful person :grouphug:


:offtopic: :sorry:[/QUOTE]

I concur. And further, being as deeply committed to rescue as Shay (and many others on Pets are), it underscores the point that the lives of ALL dogs are precious and attempts at "gallows humour" ~ whether it's "kill the pitbull" or "ban the shihtzu" , is almost always insensitive and cruel.

Tundra_Queen April 21st, 2011 12:25 AM

[QUOTE=Melinda;1005097][url]http://www.ottawasun.com/2011/04/19/shih-tzus-owner-says-dog-is-not-vicious-despite-bite[/url]


The owner of the Shih Tzu that attacked and disfigured a Home Depot employee’s face says she’s contesting the fine handed down by the city because she can’t afford to pay it.

“The little bit I do have, I’ll be needing forever,” said Odette Fournier, 65, who’s retired and living on a fixed income.

On Monday she was slapped with a $610 fine and ordered to keep her 12-year-old dog, Spot, muzzled at all times in public after bylaw officers investigated last Friday’s incident.

Anne Riel’s nose was bitten by Spot while she was working as a greeter inside an east-end Home Depot store.

Fournier said Spot has never hurt anyone before.

“I don’t think it’s a vicious dog. It’s just a pure, bad incident.”

The women aren’t strangers — for at least two years, they’ve seen each other around town.

“Her daughter, Gabrielle, has petted Spot before,” said Fournier.

Fournier said she’s not the one liable.

“I’m very sorry for her, but since it did happen in Home Depot, I think the Worker’s Compensation should cover it,” said Fournier.

Home Depot has a no-pets policy posted.

Despite the signage, pets are currently allowed in-store “as long as they’re under the control of their owners,” said manager of public relations, Tiziana Baccega.

“It has become socially acceptable to have dogs in stores. We’re looking at going back to a no-pets policy.”

They’re hoping to make a decision by Friday.

As for Riel, a single mother of two, she’ll need at least three more surgeries.

She has returned to work because she can’t afford to stay home.

For now, Riel isn’t being compensated for her workplace injury.

“There’s been no discussions around that,” said Baccega.

“She’s happily returned to work. There was no medical reason why she couldn’t so she chose to come back to the store.”

Riel told the Sun she was upset by the dog’s owner nonchalance after the attack.

“She never stopped to see if I was OK,” Riel said Sunday.

But Fournier said that just isn’t true.

“I felt sorry for her. I’m a human being,” she said.

“I asked the manager, ‘how is she doing?’”

Fournier said she’s appealing the muzzle order because she can’t find one small enough for a Shih Tzu.

Riel wants Spot put down.

And the city could decide to have the dog destroyed.

“It would be hard but if that’s the decision, that’s the decision,” said Fournier.

[email]kelly.roche@sunmedia.ca[/email][/QUOTE]

I'm going to pipe in with my :2cents:

First dog shouldn'thave been in store. Greeter should of told lady to take the dog outside. Store should of enforced the no dog policy.

And the thing that really ticks me off? The fact that the owner of the dog,,,will fight for not having to pay the fine, but when talking about if the decision is made that she has to had the dog pts, which I think would be WRONG...

“It would be hard but if that’s the decision, that’s the decision,” said Fournier.

she says NOTHING about fighting that decision! That really pisses me off! I don't think the dog should be put to sleep...I think it should be muzzled when out in public!

And yes, u can buy muzzles for shih tzus as I had one for my pek/pug as he was an attack dog. It was hard to find but I found one. I had enough sense to get him one and he wore it whenever we had company or went for a walk. And it didn't cost a lot of money and I'm on a fixed income too.

[QUOTE=marko;1005189]This is slightly off topic and a difficult point - but i hope no store ever refuses a service animal based on the potential allergies of other customers.

For me, i think the ability of a disabled person to participate and integrate into society should supersede potential allergy issues. Allergy sufferers have meds if need be...but disabled people need their service animals to 'live'. If ONLY service animals are allowed in stores than this surely reduces airborne allergens (versus allowing all pets or "pets under control").[/QUOTE]

Marko, no one can refuse a service dog unless they want to get a 1,000.00 fine. That's not to say it doesn't happen as it has happened to both hubs and myself, but then the police are called. The only place that guide dogs do not go is into a zoo. The agreement was made when the law was passed in 1970 something, that the blind would not take their guide dogs into a zoo, because of the danger of passing diseases to the zoo animals.

[QUOTE=Brandon W;1005279]Thank you I will not explain about how we(pitbull owners) feel about this situation. Shay I bet you would want the dog put down no matter what if it was a pitbull. I do not agree with your statement. WE are not saying kill all shih tzus we are trying to bring light on the situation of the bsl.

Sad part is this shih tzsu tht you are defending, will probably still be able to live after this incident.

A pitbull wouldnt no questions asked....so please please dont think for a second we are trying to degrade a specific breed.[/QUOTE]

I can't believe u said that it will be [U]SAD[/U] that the shih tzu won't be put down! I hope I'm just misunderstanding that.

And the lady that got bit in the article said she "happily returned to work"

Love4himies April 21st, 2011 07:00 AM

[QUOTE=Shaykeija;1005395]Thank you, as most of the newest members don't know me, IF that dog were to be slated for death, I would move heaven and earth to get it here to Shayker's Haven. And if not here to another rescue. I have helped move endangered dogs out of this f&*^ province, spent thousands of dollars on vet bills and never had to burden you all with my sad stories. You only get to hear the happy stories, I will not burden you with the story of a male shih tzu that was used repeatedly as a sex toy. I will not tell you how much money we spent to have his rectum rebuilt. I will not burden you with when this poor soul sees a man he freaks. Literally poops and pukes at the same time. He now lives with 2 women and has a women vet. If I sound cranky I frigging am. All life is precious, I would never put a dog down if I could help it.[/QUOTE]

You are truly an :angel:, I so understand how some posts can make a person get so upset :cry: :grouphug::grouphug:

mummummum April 21st, 2011 07:57 AM

[QUOTE=Shaykeija;1005413]And If my poor feeble mind is correct, I helped with a few fund raisers to help STOP the pit bull ban in Ontario. We only raised about 25 K over the years for lawyers. I donated time and money to stop this injustice. I know lots of pitties, trust them with my small ones...no because I understand prey drive. There are no bad dogs just dumb owners.[/QUOTE]

Shay :grouphug:... you [U]of all people[/U] don't need to justify yourself or your beliefs here. Some others however...well, we can only hope have seen the so-called "light" and understand the pain they have caused.

14+kitties April 21st, 2011 08:26 AM

[QUOTE=marko;1005150]Lots of ways to interpret this. Personally, [B]I place zero blame on the victim[/B] and feel she should of course be compensated. [B]Petting a strange dog is not the best idea but it does not make you responsible for the outcome imo.[/B]....especially when the dog is in a store.

[B]The primary blame imo is the dog's owner. Her dog. her responsibility. Period.[/B]
Don't bring it unleashed in public and there will be no issue. If the dog really had zero history of aggression, still too bad. Her dog. Her responsibility, period. The best child in the world that breaks a neighbor's window only once, or punches someone in the face only once. Parent's kid. Parent's responsibility, parent should pay damages, period.

The secondary blame is on the store because of their ridiculous and ambiguous policy. Without a doubt that will change really fast and imo it should. Animals have no place in stores unless they are service animals. People have allergies, biting potential - etc. Of course this is all just opinion but i feel pretty strongly about it. :2cents:[/QUOTE]

Oh, I get to play devil's advocate again!! :evil:
Zero blame on the victim? Really? Is she not an adult who should know what may happen by petting a dog she really does not know? Yes, she had "seen it around" before. Does not mean she spent time with it petting it and getting to know it. Petting a dog you really don't know is something you are entirely responsible for. JMO though. Also - if indeed this dog is 12 years old and has never bitten before why would the owner expect it to bite this time? :confused:
:sorry::offtopic:And allergies? Yes, I know you are speaking about service animals being allowed in stores in the future but [B]IMO[/B] there is no correlation. How about we ban people who have colds, fevers, communicable diseases from stores? Again :confused:. I work in a store where people come in all the time, sneeze all over everything, don't cover their mouth with their arm, sneeze or cough into their hand and then give me money with that same hand. :yuck: I'd much rather see them being kept out of a store than a service dog who is doing it's job.


[QUOTE=Brandon W;1005279]Thank you I will not explain about how we(pitbull owners) feel about this situation. I do not agree with your statement. WE are not saying kill all shih tzus we are trying to bring light on the situation of the bsl. Sad part is this shih tzsu tht you are defending, will probably still be able to live after this incident. A pitbull wouldnt no questions asked....so please please dont think for a second we are trying to degrade a specific breed.[/QUOTE]

We all know how strongly PB advocates' feel about this ban. As has been said before - you are fairly new here. Please get to know [B]who[/B] you are addressing before taking on a woman who has been on the front line for a long time. JMO of course. :thumbs up

[QUOTE=Shaykeija;1005413]And If my poor feeble mind is correct, I helped with a few fund raisers to help STOP the pit bull ban in Ontario. We only raised about 25 K over the years for lawyers. I donated time and money to stop this injustice. I know lots of pitties, trust them with my small ones...no because I understand prey drive. There are no bad dogs just dumb owners.[/QUOTE]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: No need to ever explain yourself Shay. We know what you do every single day of your life. :angel: You know that saying "Walk the walk" folks? She does.

Love4himies April 21st, 2011 10:19 AM

[QUOTE=14+kitties;1005447]Oh, I get to play devil's advocate again!! :evil:
Zero blame on the victim? Really? Is she not an adult who should know what may happen by petting a dog she really does not know? Yes, she had "seen it around" before. Does not mean she spent time with it petting it and getting to know it. Petting a dog you really don't know is something you are entirely responsible for. JMO though. Also - if indeed this dog is 12 years old and has never bitten before why would the owner expect it to bite this time? :confused:
:sorry::offtopic:And allergies? Yes, I know you are speaking about service animals being allowed in stores in the future but [B]IMO[/B] there is no correlation. How about we ban people who have colds, fevers, communicable diseases from stores? Again :confused:. I work in a store where people come in all the time, sneeze all over everything, don't cover their mouth with their arm, sneeze or cough into their hand and then give me money with that same hand. :yuck: I'd much rather see them being kept out of a store than a service dog who is doing it's job.




We all know how strongly PB advocates' feel about this ban. As has been said before - you are fairly new here. Please get to know [B]who[/B] you are addressing before taking on a woman who has been on the front line for a long time. JMO of course. :thumbs up



:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: No need to ever explain yourself Shay. We know what you do every single day of your life. :angel: You know that saying "Walk the walk" folks? She does.[/QUOTE]


[url=http://yoursmiles.org/t-rulez.php?page=][img]http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/rulez/t2019.gif[/img][/url] [url=http://yoursmiles.org/t-rulez.php?page=][img]http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/rulez/t2027.gif[/img][/url]


Bravo, my friend, so so well said.

Bailey_ April 21st, 2011 11:22 AM

[QUOTE]Is she not an adult who should know what may happen by petting a dog she really does not know?[/QUOTE]

How many adults do we know nowadays who are the problem and the cause of issues in the dog/cat world? :shrug: Unfortunately a LOT of people have not been taught the proper way to approach a persons dog, or even to just ask if they can pet it before they do. IMO this would be a great opportunity for Home Depot to change their policy about letting animals in their store - and if not that, then at least [I]educating[/I] their staff.

With that said; when I take my dogs out in public, I do not wait for anyone else to make a mistake around my boys.

If my dog injures anyone - it's not the dogs fault, it's not the victims fault, it's my fault - period. I don't care if anyone sticks their face too close to my dog. If I am standing there and don't have the ability to prevent a dangerous situation, then I am taking the blame [B]100% [/B]for any accident that follows.

14+kitties April 21st, 2011 11:51 AM

[QUOTE=Bailey_;1005502]How many adults do we know nowadays who are the problem and the cause of issues in the dog/cat world? :shrug: Unfortunately a LOT of people have not been taught the proper way to approach a persons dog, or even to just ask if they can pet it before they do. IMO this would be a great opportunity for Home Depot to change their policy about letting animals in their store - and if not that, then at least [I]educating[/I] their staff.

With that said; when I take my dogs out in public, I do not wait for anyone else to make a mistake around my boys.

If my dog injures anyone - it's not the dogs fault, it's not the victims fault, it's my fault - period. I don't care if anyone sticks their face too close to my dog. If I am standing there and don't have the ability to prevent a dangerous situation, then I am taking the blame [B]100% [/B]for any accident that follows.[/QUOTE]

And I suppose that is what makes us all uniquely human, right? We all have differing opinions. :shrug: Now I would imagine the only ones who will be able to make the determining factor as to who is "right' or "wrong" are the lawyers who will be making a killing on the ensuing law suit and the judge who decides.
I should take a picture of MY nose right now. Talk about being stupid. :o I know very well that dogs are capable of biting and cats are capable of scratching and biting. Talk about a lapse in judgement. At this moment I have a very large scratch on my honker that goes all the way from top to bottom almost right down the middle. Why? Because I was stupid enough to pick up a cat that was very close beside my dog. I would think she thought the dog was attacking and so attacked back. Unfortunately [I]my[/I] nose got the worse of it. :laughing::laughing: My fault entirely. Wonder who I can sue?

Bailey_ April 21st, 2011 12:04 PM

[QUOTE=14+kitties;1005512]And I suppose that is what makes us all uniquely human, right? We all have differing opinions. :shrug: Now I would imagine the only ones who will be able to make the determining factor as to who is "right' or "wrong" are the lawyers who will be making a killing on the ensuing law suit and the judge who decides.
I should take a picture of MY nose right now. Talk about being stupid. :o I know very well that dogs are capable of biting and cats are capable of scratching and biting. Talk about a lapse in judgement. At this moment I have a very large scratch on my honker that goes all the way from top to bottom almost right down the middle. Why? Because I was stupid enough to pick up a cat that was very close beside my dog. I would think she thought the dog was attacking and so attacked back. Unfortunately [I]my[/I] nose got the worse of it. :laughing::laughing: My fault entirely. Wonder who I can sue?[/QUOTE]

Yikes 14...:laughing: Great point though, thank you for putting it in that light. People nowadays are too quick to jump on the money train, using any incident like this to their benefit and the dog is the one that loses out. :(

Rgeurts April 21st, 2011 12:30 PM

[QUOTE=14+kitties;1005512]And I suppose that is what makes us all uniquely human, right? We all have differing opinions. :shrug: Now I would imagine the only ones who will be able to make the determining factor as to who is "right' or "wrong" are the lawyers who will be making a killing on the ensuing law suit and the judge who decides.
I should take a picture of MY nose right now. Talk about being stupid. :o I know very well that dogs are capable of biting and cats are capable of scratching and biting. Talk about a lapse in judgement. At this moment I have a very large scratch on my honker that goes all the way from top to bottom almost right down the middle. Why? Because I was stupid enough to pick up a cat that was very close beside my dog. I would think she thought the dog was attacking and so attacked back. Unfortunately [I]my[/I] nose got the worse of it. :laughing::laughing: My fault entirely. Wonder who I can sue?[/QUOTE]

I would have to agree, and I'll tell you why:

Several yrs ago I went to the shelter looking for a puppy friend. There was a 1 yr old DobieX. She was the sweetest little girl I had ever met. Loving, timid and so very submissive. She stole my heart and any thoughts of "puppy" were gone. She was in line to be euthanised that evening. The reason she was there? It was through no fault of her own. I lived in a small town where everyone knew everyone, so getting the "real" story was easy. There was a dobie byb in town. He had taken his male and female in to town with him. he left the windows part way open in the vehicle. Some idiot stuck his hand in to pet them and one of them bit him. He goes to the police with the license plate number of the vehicle, they go out to the byb and tell him he needs to surrender the dog. Instead of giving up his purebred that actually did the biting, he told them my sweet Dixie was the one that bit the guy. So they haul her off to jail. The animal control officer, who was a friend of mine, fell in love with her too. He kept her for a month before putting her down. They normally only kept them for a week. It's a high kill shelter. She was badly abused and very timid, and one of the best dogs I have ever had. She was the sweetest girl and passed of old age at 12 yrs, and almost lost her life because of an irresponsible [B][I][U]victim[/U][/I][/B]. When people do things like that, it's their own fault if they get bit. Educated or not, imo it's common sense. You don't approach an animal you don't know and you certainly don't stick your hand in a car with a strange dog, or put your face in the face of one (if that's in fact what she did). In this case, the owner is mainly at fault, but I do believe the employee is partially to blame as well as the store for allowing the dog to be there with a no dogs policy.

Love4himies April 21st, 2011 12:42 PM

[QUOTE=Bailey_;1005502]How many adults do we know nowadays who are the problem and the cause of issues in the dog/cat world? :shrug: Unfortunately a LOT of people have not been taught the proper way to approach a persons dog, or even to just ask if they can pet it before they do. [/QUOTE]

I agree, people have NOT been taught and so many people think dogs are little humans with problem solving capabilities, that see things through their eyes the same as humans.

So who is responsible for that education? MY mother taught me to go up to strange dogs (along with looking both ways before crossing a street, not to walk along railway tracks, don't play on thin ice, etc., etc.) To me ignorance of common sense is not an excuse to excuse people from their "not so smart" decisions. We are of a society that we are always looking to blame our stupidity on others. This is no exception, in my opinion anyways. The woman who got her nose bit has to take responsibility for her actions and the woman who owns the dog should be responsible for the actions of her dog.

Bailey_ April 21st, 2011 01:03 PM

[QUOTE]So who is responsible for that education? MY mother taught me to go up to strange dogs (along with looking both ways before crossing a street, not to walk along railway tracks, don't play on thin ice, etc., etc.) To me ignorance of common sense is not an excuse to excuse people from their "not so smart" decisions. We are of a society that we are always looking to blame our stupidity on others. [/QUOTE]

I agree that common sense is a huge factor here. Sadly, not everyone displays it, even I have been at fault for that. (I have huge ugly scars on my right hand due to riding an inner tube made for water down a gravel hill. :rolleyes: Yeah. I know.)

Who is responsible? IMO it's *us* as the dog owner. If someone does not know how to approach a dog properly, I always tell the parent or the adult what to do with my dogs and how to do it, especially as an owner of two rather large protective male breeds. I cannot count how many times people have attempted to pet Vali (half deaf) without asking me first. Sure, he looks cute and friendly with his floppy ears; but if startled? Watch out.

Basically we can't expect that someone is going to understand the rules of approaching our dogs. And if they don't, we have the responsibility to educate them, right there on the spot - to avoid any incidents like this.

Inthedoghouse April 21st, 2011 01:34 PM

IMO, well said Bailey
it only takes a few seconds to explain to someone not to pet our pet, or "how to"
whereas someone could end up with a lifetime of scars if they didn't know not to...
I am for sure, from now on, even tho my Lucy is calm, still suggest to possible petters that she could jump at them etc. - after I warn the person, then it's up to them..... ??

Love4himies April 21st, 2011 01:46 PM

[QUOTE=Bailey_;1005521]
I cannot count how many times people have attempted to pet Vali (half deaf) without asking me first. Sure, he looks cute and friendly with his floppy ears; but if startled? Watch out.

[/QUOTE]

I think that is part of the problem, people base their opinions of how a dog will react by their physical appearance, ie looks cute and cuddly, therefore must be a lovebug.

And, yes, every owner should be warning people not to pet their dog. NO owner can be 100% sure of how their dog is going to react.

Rgeurts April 21st, 2011 01:46 PM

[QUOTE=Bailey_;1005521]I agree that common sense is a huge factor here. Sadly, not everyone displays it, even I have been at fault for that.
(I have huge ugly scars on my right hand due to riding an inner tube made for water down a gravel hill. :rolleyes: Yeah. I know.)


[COLOR="Blue"]Lord knows I have done my fair share of "not so smart" things. We all lack common sense on occassion. But... if you do have one of those moments, then I think you need to take responsibility for your [B][I][U]own[/U][/I][/B] actions.[/B][/COLOR]


Who is responsible? IMO it's *us* as the dog owner. If someone does not know how to approach a dog properly, I always tell the parent or the adult what to do with my dogs and how to do it, especially as an owner of two rather large protective male breeds. I cannot count how many times people have attempted to pet Vali (half deaf) without asking me first. Sure, he looks cute and friendly with his floppy ears; but if startled? Watch out.


[COLOR="blue"]I agree completely that owners are responsible, for the most part. But I still fully and 100% believe that the "victim" needs to take some responsibility as well, for his/her own actions. Ignorance is no excuse when it comes to the law, and it shouldn't be when it comes to our pets either. If he/she was just walking down a street, minding their own business and were attacked, I would say the vicitm has no blame whatsoever. But in the case of walking up to a strange animal to pet it, that's completely different. Even if an animal has never shown aggression, it doesn't mean it won't. It's an animal :shrug:
I, like you, struggle when walking Thorin. He's a beautiful boy, and everyone wants to "love" him. But he's timid and over-protective of me. I have to stop kids all the time, even with the parents standing right there saying nothing to them. It irritates me to no end. If I do something stupid, and get hurt, I'm sure not going to blame anyone but myself.


[/COLOR]

Basically we can't expect that someone is going to understand the rules of approaching our dogs. And if they don't, we have the responsibility to educate them, right there on the spot - to avoid any incidents like this.[/QUOTE]

No, we can't expect them to know. So what it comes down to is [B][I][U]they[/U][/I][/B] need to educate themselves before approaching. Again, it's common sense. An animal is an animal is an animal... and therefore, unpredictable. Again, JMO :)

Rgeurts April 21st, 2011 01:47 PM

[QUOTE=Inthedoghouse;1005524]IMO, well said Bailey
it only takes a few seconds to explain to someone not to pet our pet, or "how to"
[/QUOTE]

And it only takes a few seconds for someone to get their face bitten. It can happen before you have a chance to "educate" them, so they need to take responsibility for thier own actions and educate themselves as well.

I'm in no way saying it's always the victims fault 100%. But what I am saying is partial blame does lie with them in most cases. Ignorance is no excuse in anything we do where the law is concerned (and most other areas of life), so why should it be ok here? People need to take some of the responsibility.

14+kitties April 21st, 2011 01:58 PM

[QUOTE=Inthedoghouse;1005524]IMO, well said Bailey
it only takes a few seconds to explain to someone not to pet our pet, or "how to"
whereas someone could end up with a lifetime of scars if they didn't know not to...
I am for sure, from now on, even tho my Lucy is calm, still suggest to possible petters that she could jump at them etc. - after I warn the person, then it's up to them..... ??[/QUOTE]

Then what happens if Lucy bites the person? Do you say "I warned you?" Not trying to start an argument. Just saying. :shrug: Where do you draw the line? You can say to the animal enforcement officer who shows up at your door to pick up Lucy "I warned them". Is that going to make a difference on whether or not Lucy goes with the officer? It's your word against the person who Lucy bit. The person is the victim so therefore their word will most likely be taken as law, right? I would imagine you would fight for your Lucy. Doesn't sound like this woman will if the decision is made to put her dog down. :(
I'm still on the fence with all of this. I don't believe a 12 year old dog should be put down. There had to have been a reason behind the bite. There always is. Maybe he felt the greeter was going to harm his owner. :shrug: Maybe the greeter touched him in a spot that hurt. No one knows nor will they likely take the time to find out. I also agree the dog should not be in the store. IMO stores are not a place for dogs - unless they are service dogs. People simply can not do their shopping and still pay full attention to their dog. That is a recipe for disaster.
On the flip side - I feel a bit for the person who was bitten. She was irresponsible in petting a dog she really didn't know but she paid the price. Should she insist the dog be put down? I don't think so. She has to bear some responsibility. I am quite sure she will get her medical paid for somehow. That's what her lawyer will be for.
As for the owner of the Tzu - she's the real winner in all of this. It's too bad her dog will likely pay the price for her not wanting to take responsibility for its' actions. :(

Melinda April 22nd, 2011 04:28 AM

as of May 16th all dogs are banned from Home depots across the country, Brina will miss the girls.

mummummum April 22nd, 2011 06:57 PM

[QUOTE=Melinda;1005638]as of May 16th all dogs are banned from Home depots across the country, Brina will miss the girls.[/QUOTE]

...except service dogs of course.


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