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mixed breeds and dogs snobs

fruithead
November 27th, 2004, 01:26 AM
my family and i plan to get a puppy this late winter and i have been doing quite a bit of research on my dog of choice, the schnoodle.

during my numerous internet searches, i am appalled to come across legions of "dog snobs", these people who don't condone the breeding of a mixed breed dog and consider any breeder of such an animal as a puppy mill.

these people are out of their minds. i know schnoodle owners and owners of other mutts and these are wonderful pets and companions. i see nothing wrong with a breeder breeding schnoodles for the sole purpose to sell them as pets. "dog snobs" often define puppy mills as any place where a profit is made. why shouldn't these breeders make a profit? how are these breeders any worse than those who don't breed dogs for pets and only for show purposes?

in my opinion, it's these purebred enthusists who parade their pets at dogs shows and ship them around the continent to show-off. they're no better than parents who push their little girls into beauty pagents.

i think schnoodles are beautiful dogs and i don't give a damn if they're recognized by the kennel club or not. at least they won't suffer the same health problems as some purebred with a tiny gene pool. i will buy a schnoodle and i will do it with a clear conscience.

Bugsy
November 27th, 2004, 01:32 AM
Have you thought about adopting a homeless dog? :angel:

www.petfinder.com :thumbs up

twinmommy
November 27th, 2004, 02:38 AM
when you say late winter....you mean late this year, or when winter's almost over? I don't want to tell you what to do, but there are alot of dogs that need loving homes after the "christmas rush", you could wait until then if you were planning to wait anyways.

LavenderRott
November 27th, 2004, 06:09 AM
Well, you know what, with over 106,000 dogs sitting in shelters and rescue groups in this country, and thousands of dogs euthanized every day, you can call me whatever you like but stop breeding mutts for money! While every breeder of mutts may not be a puppy mill, they are irresponsible and certainly not looking after the health and welfare of their dogs.

Responsible breeders show their dogs to assure that they are within the stardard for that breed. Then they show them some more to be sure that the dog is capable of doing the job that it was bred for. Then they spend hundreds of dollars for health tests to be sure that the dog they are breeding won't pass on genetic diseases to their puppies. And more often then not, the puppies born aren't shown but sold to wonderful pet homes. After careful consideration, that is. A responsible breeder certainly wouldn't sell a dog to just anyone. I know several breeders of very fine dogs and you would have an easier time adopting a child then getting one of their puppies.

I promise you this, someone who is selling more then one breed of designer puppies is at the very least a commercial kennel. The dogs are kept in cages their entire lives with their only human interaction being feeding time. They never put their feet to grass, and the certainly don't run and play with the family children. Vet care is as close to non existant as it comes because that cuts into the profits.

And if you think that puppy mills are just a figment of the Animal Right Wacko's out there. Think again. I know a lovely woman that has a doxie that was born deaf and with no eyes. The first time she saw the dog, it was sold at 6 months at a dog auction AS A BREEDER. And the dog sold for a considerable amount of money! Why? Because at 6 months old, she was about to come into season.

I sure hope that when you find your schnoodle, the puppy's breeder was careful about breeding his/her dogs. Hybrid vigor is a myth and any genetic problems that can be found in the parents or the parents genetic lines, can be found in the pup. I found a couple of genetic issues you may (or not, if you truly buy into the hybrid vigor myth) be interested in looking into before you buy:mucopolysaccharidosis, Progressive Retinal Atrophy, Renal Dysplasia and Patellar Luxation.

Lucky Rescue
November 27th, 2004, 08:16 AM
What LavenderRott said. :thumbs up

This has nothing to do with being "snobs", and everything to do with people who care about the fact that millions of dogs are slaughtered in shelters every year because people like you want "designer" mixed breeds.

You need to educate yourself to the fact that there is a huge overpopulation of dogs, and not enough homes. You know why? Because people are willing to pay big bucks for badly bred dogs being pumped out for profit.

If you love dogs or care anything about them, you'll take a mixed breed from a shelter or rescue and give it a loving home.

In that way, you can be a small part of the solution, instead of being part of the problem.

Sheriffmom
November 27th, 2004, 04:14 PM
I find it interesting that your very first post sounds like a bull going through a china shop. It sounds like you are just trying to stir the pot. If you read any posts prior to posting, you would've seen what the general consensus is on this board towards Puppymills, petstores and commercial kennels. Why bother posting here? You've already made up your mind, nothing we say will change it, and very few of us support your decision. Why not find a board more suited to your needs... because from your post we've already been judged as "snobs".

Sheriffmom
November 27th, 2004, 04:20 PM
PS here are some listings for poodle cross puppies
http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=3646511&adTarget=468doggeneral&SessionID=41a8fcd40d7a5702-app4&display=&preview=&row=0&tmpl=&stat=
http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=3618793&adTarget=468doggeneral&SessionID=41a8fcd40d7a5702-app4&display=&preview=&row=0&tmpl=&stat=
http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=3679202&adTarget=468doggeneral&SessionID=41a8fcd40d7a5702-app4&display=&preview=&row=0&tmpl=&stat=

TobsterMom
November 27th, 2004, 04:35 PM
First of all...those puppies are adorable...especially the last one :love:

Secondly, I have to agree...it drives me crazy that these people are cross breeding dogs and pumping out puppies for money. There is one particular website (not naming) from a pet establisment in PEI who are making a fortune from crossed breeds. I visited there last summer and the summer before, and each time, it broke my heart to leave those puppies there. I also check the website regularly, out of pure curiosity....they always have tons of puppies, which is sad because you just imagine where they come from.

Please adopt from a shelter.

pitbulliest
November 27th, 2004, 05:25 PM
Shnoodles....Labradoodles...Shichis....darn..every other freak dogs you can imagine are all a product of BACKYARD BREEDING...

I like to call them "fad breeds"... kinda like a fashion craving that some people just have....pretty stupid huh? I agree!

There are tons of wonderful mixed breeds (which is what you'll be getting, and probably paying some BYB breeder around 600 at least for it!) in the shelter that need homes as we speak...

Mom_Of_Two_Dogs
November 27th, 2004, 07:17 PM
More on the poo breeds, including the "schnoodle":

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/poodogs.html

Lucky Rescue
November 27th, 2004, 07:37 PM
I want a Collapso - a collie x lhasa apso that folds up for easy transport. :D

Shaykeija
November 27th, 2004, 09:29 PM
I want a Collapso - a collie x lhasa apso that folds up for easy transport. :D
Now that one made me laugh until my face hurt. Good one Lucky.. :D

Delirium
November 27th, 2004, 10:25 PM
I already have one of those!!!! I'm amazed at the shapes my Toby contorts himself into while trying to find the perfect sleeping spot on the couch.

I'm not a snob, i'm a realist.

Dee

Schwinn
November 28th, 2004, 10:27 PM
Just a question (please don't get upset with me), but, what is wrong with getting a dog from a pet store? I mean, I'm against puppy mills, and my wife and I both agreed we would only get a dog from a shelter or humane society, because we don't want to see those dogs go homeless. But for arguements, sake, let's suppose you want a specific dog, but not for showing. (I have a friend who paid a few hundred dollars for a specific breed of cat, but isn't going to show it. I think that's nuts). So you go to a pet store, because you can't find that breed of dog at the local shelter. I was thinking of this as I was looking at the Shelties at the Doogan's in Newmarket. I haven't seen them in our local shelter, so what if you want that specific dog? Yes, it may not be a "pure" sheltie, but it also wasn't several hundred dollars, either. Again, I'm only playing devil's advocate, but there are people who want a specific type of dog, but don't want to pay a tonne of money for it. And I've seen breeders who care for the dogs, and who aren't breeding hundreds of dogs and sticking them in tiny cages. Just a thought. Please don't eat me...

Writing4Fun
November 28th, 2004, 10:42 PM
Lucky, your post had hubby and me literally rolling around, laughing. :crazy:

"Dog snobs"? That is very laughable on this particular site! Anyone who read any of the posts would realize just how rediculous that term is when applied to the people here.

Schwinn, you can find oodles of posts in here on that particular subject. Here's a very recent one:
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=9736&highlight=pet+store+puppies

Here's another interesting read:
http://www.nopuppymillscanada.ca/what_is_a_puppy_mill.htm

Lucky Rescue
November 29th, 2004, 10:06 AM
what is wrong with getting a dog from a pet store? I mean, I'm against puppy mills,

And where do you think pet store puppies come from? They come from mills and disreptuble backyard breeders who don't give a damn who gets their puppies as long as they get the money.

Many people don't realize this as the pet store will never tell you.

Petstores are simply middlemen for the mills.

Anyone who buys a puppy OR kitten at a petstore is directly funding and condoning mills.

Schwinn
November 29th, 2004, 11:05 AM
And where do you think pet store puppies come from? They come from mills and disreptuble backyard breeders who don't give a damn who gets their puppies as long as they get the money.

Many people don't realize this as the pet store will never tell you.

Petstores are simply middlemen for the mills.

Anyone who buys a puppy OR kitten at a petstore is directly funding and condoning mills.

I guess this is the crux of my question. Are all dogs from the pet store from puppy mills? Is it not possible they came from someone who doesn't happen to be an actual breeder of pure breds, but a dog breeder none the less? Or does that make them a "puppy mill"? And if so, are all puppy mills bad? Again, I'm just asking questions. My first reaction to the question of "are all puppy mills bad" is yes, absolutely. But what I consider a puppy mill is a place that churns them out like inanmimate objects, poor living conditions, etc. Is it possible that there are people who breed dogs for general consumption, but treat them as well as your average CKC registered breeder? I don't know. Just throwing the questions out there for debate. I'm not defending or condemning.


Writing4fun:thanks for the links. I've saved them for a chance to check them out.

mastifflover
November 29th, 2004, 11:37 AM
Schwinn I think you can pretty well assume that all pet stores are supplied by BYB or puppymills and if they are supplying that many dogs to a store how ethical can they be. My friend bought a pug from a pet store the first weekend she spent 1800.00 at the vets after fighting with the store for the papers and vet costs she finally won but only after threatening and having her lawyer send a letter. Since then she has become a very vocal advocate for getting pets out of pet stores. Of course when I told her how adamant I was that she not buy a pup from a pet store that all went in one ear and out the other. So after spending more money on her pug which is healthy now she could have gone to a reputable breeder and bought not only a pup but a show quality pup with all the testing and papers. I have never seen her dogs papers but I am sure they are bogus.

Sheriffmom
November 29th, 2004, 11:37 AM
Schwinn,
My way of thinking on this is if you go to a reputable breeder or a reputable rescue you have to answere a million and one questions, they completely check you out, including living conditions etc.... A petstore doesn't give a crap as long as you have the cashola, they don't offer guarentees, they don't give you pedigrees (not for showing but to prove mom and dad and grandparents were all healthy and free of defects/genetic problems), they will not give you breeder info (ask yourself), they don't check up on how your pup is doing, they don't answere questions if there is a problem with your dog. NO reputable breeder would ever subject their puppies to this, and why would they? Ask or call any reputable breeder, ask them why they don't sell to petstores? I was at Doogans at the Georgian Mall and was appalled at the condition of the pups, the size of their cages, how many were packed into one of those tiny cages... they were also moocho grande expensive (English Bullie for $5000, mixes betwwen $600 and $1000). Also you have to ask yourself.... what happens to the ones that don't sell before they have outgrown "cuteness"???
Ask the store where they go....
Just my 2 cents :)

GsdDiamond
November 29th, 2004, 11:54 AM
Are all dogs from the pet store from puppy mills? Is it not possible they came from someone who doesn't happen to be an actual breeder of pure breds, but a dog breeder none the less?

Anybody who breeds pet quality dogs for profit is a miller. A reputable show dog breeder will sell pet quality dogs for just enough to pay for the vet bills incurred, food the dog ate....and that's pretty much it. The breeder we got Diamond from only charged $800 for her, and that included 2 sets of shots, vet checkups, home visits, dog food to take home (breed specific too) and a verbal agreement to spay her (which we were going to do anyways). Reputable breeders don't make much, if any, profit on pet quality dogs. That's what makes them differ from BYB/millers.

BYB/millers don't supply vets for their animals, takes away profits.
They eat crap dog food, because the good stuff costs too much.

Pet stores, unless they're adopting out pets (call it selling if you like), will be from a BYB/miller unless they say they're from a local shelter. They encourage you to call the shelter if you don't see anything you want to adopt. Big name companies that sell puppies/kittens, don't give a rat's a$$ where they get their animals from, as long as they get to make a good chunk of change. When I was younger (and didn't know better) I bought a kitten from a big box pet supply company. The cat had ear mites so bad the Vet I brought him to wrote a letter to the pet supply company and demanded they reimburse me for the medication or she would contact the government agency responsible for granting licenses to sell animals and have theirs pulled! (I just loved that Vet!!!) People selling animals for profit don't care if the animal is sick when they sell it. Reputable breeders do care, and follow up the animal's journey to health again. I've even seen some breeders who won't sell an animal until it's 100% healthy again. That's caring!

GsdDiamond
November 29th, 2004, 11:58 AM
Also you have to ask yourself.... what happens to the ones that don't sell before they have outgrown "cuteness"???
Ask the store where they go....

Very true! You can usually judge a good pet store from a bad one by the animals you see going in and out of their cages.

One pet store we have at the end of our street has had the same cat for many months. The pet store works closely with the Humane Society here, so, not that I know for sure, I'd say they sell animals that are up for adoption. Makes me wonder....so I'll ask next time I'm there.

Schwinn
November 29th, 2004, 12:04 PM
Also you have to ask yourself.... what happens to the ones that don't sell before they have outgrown "cuteness"???
Ask the store where they go....
Just my 2 cents :)

It's funny you say that. My wife asked me the same thing when we were in Doogan's in Newmarket. I said I thought they would take them to a shelter, but didn't know.

You know, this is definitly food for thought. I'm going to have to look into this further. I've always advocated the Humane Society for pets, but haven't really ever had an opinion either way on pet stores.

LavenderRott
November 29th, 2004, 12:07 PM
Some pups that son't sell are returned to the broker, then to the breeder. These dogs are usually sold at auction to begin their own breeding careers.

Sheriffmom
November 29th, 2004, 12:28 PM
Schwinn I encourage you to read this little blip on petfinders http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=3644345&adTarget=468doggeneral&SessionID=41ab68d14029c388-app3&display=&preview=1&row=25&tmpl=&stat=
This is in regards to a pup we were putting in to adopt :sad:

CyberKitten
November 29th, 2004, 12:32 PM
Schwinn ,

I know this has already been answered but pet stores are where back yard breeders and puppy mills sell those poor abused, neglected dogs to unsuspecting customers. The ONLY way one can be assured of obtaining a purebred puppy (or kitten for that matter) that is registered with all the appropriate papers and know with some certainty that the animal's health and pedigree are adequate (if that is what you are seeking as opposed to some wonderful moggy puppies and kittens that may well be healthier overall) is to find a reputable breeder.

This is not an easy task as I discovered in my search for a Seal Point Siamese. (Yes I know there are wonderful moggy cats I could love but all my life I wanted this type if Siamese kitty and so thus I began my adventure in searching for a Siamese cat!)

You have to investgate every breeder - even the ones listed in the top dog and specific breed publications and online sites. It took me many months - and I was willing to adopt a special needs Seal Point or even Blue Point if necessary - but that fell through over some mixed signals.

Just because a breeder says they are CKC registered does not mean they are the healthiest puppies or that the breeder is recognized by the various breeders' associations. These groups (and I hesitate to use my own profession - the medical prfession - but it is similar. They self regulate and so it is buyer beware - though there is considerably more legslation covering doctors. Perhaps clinical psychologists would be a better example. In some states, practically anyone can call him or herself a psychologist (Dr. Phil for example - he is not a pychologist tho he is making great $$$ playing one on TV, lol).

Anyway, it is the same with these groups. You need to see the breeder, visit them, see the parents. A good breeder will show you the nursery - but be cautious about picking up the babies and will have no hesitation is sharing the medical history of the mom and dad (and of the shows they've participated in). Most breeders of this natire are not in it for the money. They spend a small fortune showing their pets and they breed the mom perhaps once so they can continue the line.

A reputable breeder will also recommend rescue groups and some of them even sell some of their adults who are no longer being shown in competition. (I at first was appalled by this and still am not keen on purchasing a pet in this way but someone on this Board pointed out that the adopted pet (and you will still pay a significant price for the animal - but it rarely covers the money spent by the breeder) - will get more attention and love from one family than in a home of show dogs or cats of which this one is not one!

I searched out the smaller breeders whose Queens are part of the family and are bred only once and at the most twice and NEVER too young! This is the kind of family I adopted Yin Yin from. They had two female Siamese kitties - and had three for sale, one Seal Point and two Blue Point. The mother and the other female cat both gave my little baby lots of love and attention and she was well socialized and used to family life. She was fed good cat food, they had good vet references and the mother and the father - who lived in another part of New Brunswick (I went to see him too) both had very sweet temperments. Both had won a plethora of competitions but that was not my objective. I purchased a Show quality kitten even though I wanted a pet because I found a kitten I fell in live with!!

Anyway, that's my two cents on puppy and kitten mills. Sorry for being so long winded!!

I don't think I need to describe by breeders or puppy mills who are in it for one motivation only - to make a profit!! (Just as are pet stores!)

I forget what breed you are searching for but I do wish you luck.

Schwinn
November 29th, 2004, 01:12 PM
I forget what breed you are searching for but I do wish you luck.

Actually, I wasn't, I was just bringing up the questions, more out of curiousity than anything else. I have often wondered about the possibility of something existing between the abhorrant puppy-mill and the breeder. Myself, I would always get a dog from the shelter, even if I wanted a specific breed. If I couldn't find it, I would probably wait. Not saying that's the way it should be done, just what I would do. But I've always wondered what else was out there. I tend to ask the "what if?" questions a lot. Even if I don't believe in the answers. It's part of my boyish charm :D

Thanks for the info, everyone!

Lucky Rescue
November 29th, 2004, 02:01 PM
Is it possible that there are people who breed dogs for general consumption, but treat them as well as your average CKC registered breeder? I don't know. Just throwing the questions out there for debate. I'm not defending or condemning.

Sure, there are people breeding dogs who treat them nicely,and maybe even spoil them. They probably got a male and female - no health testing, no titles - and put them together to make some money.

BUT, they are being totally irresponsible and adding to the overpopulation of badly bred dogs, and breeding them for money and nothing else.

Every time someone buys these puppies, these people are encouraged to keep pumping them out and many will end up on the pages of Petfinder, or worse since of course these people would never take them back.

These puppies may be CKC registered, but that means precisely nothing, other than that the parents are purebreds and of the same breed. This does not mean they are not being exploited, have a host of health or temperament problems, or that the breeders are remotely reputable.

CyberKitten
November 29th, 2004, 04:19 PM
Re: I have a friend who paid a few hundred dollars for a specific breed of cat, but isn't going to show it. I think that's nuts

I just noticed this (must have read the post too quickly the 1st time).

I paid lots for Yin Yin but she is a pet and I have absolutely no plans to show her. And it is insulting - boyish charm notwithstanding - for you to suggest I am nuts. It is also judgemental. There are some comments here I find hard to take but often say nothing just because it is not worth it and I won't change anyone's opinion. But your comment is hurtful but I will hope that it is based on lack of knowledge rather than wanting to call anyone's sanity into question.

The family I purchased Yin Yin from spent a small fortune to breed their cat. It is no easy task if done properly. There are vet fees, late nights with mom, feeding the kittens properly, ensuring they eat properly, the cost fo breed with someone else's cat in the first place, other fees I am certain I am forgetting. Breeders who do it properly never get their money back but they achieve their objective of contuning the line. So while my fee may have been high, I have a gurenteed healthy kitten from a good home and while I do not care what line she is from, I do love my cat as much as the person who does want to show them. And really, that is up to them. Just because you or I would not engage in this, we have no right to be judgemental. Not does anyone have the right to question anyone's sanity. (In my workplace, it is consdiered harassment!)

I thought we had a policy about no flaming or uttering nasty comments on this site?

And if it was meant as a joke, I did not take it as such. We just recently layed off a CEO because of some comments he made that were hugely inappropriate and hurtful!!!

Schwinn
November 29th, 2004, 04:31 PM
Re: I have a friend who paid a few hundred dollars for a specific breed of cat, but isn't going to show it. I think that's nuts

I just noticed this (must have read the post too quickly the 1st time).

I paid lots for Yin Yin but she is a pet and I have absolutely no plans to show her. And it is insulting - boyish charm notwithstanding - for you to suggest I am nuts. It is also judgemental. There are some comments here I find hard to take but often say nothing just because it is not worth it and I won't change anyone's opinion. But your comment is hurtful but I will hope that it is based on lack of knowledge rather than wanting to call anyone's sanity into question.

The family I purchased Yin Yin from spent a small fortune to breed their cat. It is no easy task if done properly. There are vet fees, late nights with mom, feeding the kittens properly, ensuring they eat properly, the cost fo breed with someone else's cat in the first place, other fees I am certain I am forgetting. Breeders who do it properly never get their money back but they achieve their objective of contuning the line. So while my fee may have been high, I have a gurenteed healthy kitten from a good home and while I do not care what line she is from, I do love my cat as much as the person who does want to show them. And really, that is up to them. Just because you or I would not engage in this, we have no right to be judgemental. Not does anyone have the right to question anyone's sanity. (In my workplace, it is consdiered harassment!)

I thought we had a policy about no flaming or uttering nasty comments on this site?

And if it was meant as a joke, I did not take it as such. We just recently layed off a CEO because of some comments he made that were hugely inappropriate and hurtful!!!

I apologize. I said that as a comment on my friend, and there is more to the story than what I stated. I didn't think my comment through when I was stating it, please don't take it as an affront to you. I made an off-hand remark, I will be more careful in my words. :sorry:

And Lucky, you make a good point about contributing to the over-population. As I said, I'm just musing out-loud. And I've often thought I wouldn't buy from a pet store when there are so many animals needing good homes at the pound. Especially now when I see Daisy sitting there with her tail wagging, after she was found wandering the highway as a puppy, and was already rejected after one prospective owner took her home. I've seen what some of these puppy mills do to the animals, and it makes me sick. You've added another dimension to the arguement, however.

CyberKitten
November 29th, 2004, 04:37 PM
Apology accepted!

Unfortunately, online we often make commets - and because relationships develop more quickly online There is an actual soc study on this, lol - that we assume others will understand. I am sometimes supersensitive but your comment seemed clear to me - I was nuts if I paid megabucks for a cat I have no intention of showing. (And it was such an epic stuggle to find the puurfect kitten/cat!!!), sighhhhhhh

glasslass
November 29th, 2004, 05:40 PM
Why do so many look down on poodles, yet it is always the poodle they want to cross-breed? Do they just like the way the name fits together with other breed names? By the way, the poodle is a good example of what can happen to a breed that has become popular and has been exploited by BYB's and mills. A well-bred poodle is a real joy.

Hound_Dog
November 29th, 2004, 07:11 PM
what happens to the ones that don't sell before they have outgrown "cuteness"???

I find it rather interesting that people here who have owned animals before always comment on puppies magically becoming uncute. I can understand people who have never had the joy of owning a dog (or cat) who think that older dogs are less cute. I think that if everyone were to wake up and realize that puppyhood is only a short period in a dog's life, there would be a lot fewer purchases of puppies from pet stores.

Never in my lifetime would I trade my pups for a "cute" puppy. I wouldn't even want to turn back the clock so that my guys were babies again. In fact, shame on anyone for thinking that a dog is more lovable when they are only a pup. I love my dogs more now that they don't eat my furniture, pee all over the place, and otherwise get into all kinds of mischief.

mastifflover
November 30th, 2004, 12:43 PM
I agree 100% hounddog my guy is gorgeous. I dont care if he is not a puppy. He is well trained he loves me and vice versa and he doesn't pee in the house or eat shoes. I would never trade him for a puppy, he still is a big puppy to me.
Glasslass I think it is because you see so many people that have small poodles(small dogs in general) who do not train or socialize their dogs. Which in turn gives nice well mannered and trained dogs a problem because they get lumped into one group. They are sweet and very loyal and smart dogs I personally like the standard (who would have thought I would prefer the large version), but I have some real sweet little guys down the street who are very well trained and fun to be around.

melanie
November 30th, 2004, 02:40 PM
:D this is a total wind up and the MO looks very similar to a recent troll. (i shake my head at the freak oooo scary) :D

Sheriffmom
December 1st, 2004, 07:36 PM
Hound--- I agree, everyday I love Sheriff more and more.... What i was saying is there is a certain "cuteness" that puppies exhibite, and that petstores play on. I would never trade Sheriff in for a puppy, and I don't think we'll do the puppy thing again (we'll adopt an older dog!!).
I think if they forced petstores to sell dogs above the age of 1yr, the petstores would soon be out of buisness.... ppl would get to see the size etc... not just the fluffy furball that are most pups.

twinmommy
December 1st, 2004, 09:14 PM
5 years ago,I went to the spca with the intention to get an older dog, and came home with 4 puppies !!!(they saw me comin :) ) I can tell you that they are cute, but mainly a lot of hard work!! It's important to let people know that the "puppy phase" while cute, is also very demanding, and definitely not the best part of having a dog.

carey
December 4th, 2004, 02:06 PM
Just to put my own two pennyworth in: we have a local pet store whose owner says he does not get animals from mills but only "from people he knows" . He thinks he is doing them a favour as they would have to "get rid of them" otherwise - as if that makes it all OK! Just by taking these animals the pet store enables the backyard breeder to keep producing (and I have no doubt there is money exchanging hands). It is an easy way out. However, if petstores refused them, these people might think twice about allowing their pets to multiply. As well, every pet that is bought at a petstore is replaced by another and another.... :sad: . The end of pet overpopulation will be when shelters and rescues go out of business

Lucky Rescue
December 4th, 2004, 04:51 PM
Just to put my own two pennyworth in: we have a local pet store whose owner says he does not get animals from mills but only "from people he knows" . He thinks he is doing them a favour as they would have to "get rid of them" otherwise - as if that makes it all OK! Just by taking these animals the pet store enables the backyard breeder to keep producing (and I have no doubt there is money exchanging hands). It is an easy way out. However, if petstores refused them, these people might think twice about allowing their pets to multiply. As well, every pet that is bought at a petstore is replaced by another and another.... :sad: . The end of pet overpopulation will be when shelters and rescues go out of business

Yup, yup!! Pet stores will also tell you that the puppies are from "private breeders". Translation - disreputable and immoral people who use animals as a source of revenue to pump out puppies for dollars.

SarahJane
December 4th, 2004, 05:27 PM
There is just something inherently twisted about being able to pick up a pet from a store (without so much as a single question to ensure how you will care for him/her) just as you would a sweater or a jar of peanut butter. Like, you can just head to your local mall... there is no respect for the life in question when it is done that way. It makes me sick. Pet stores never fail to make me cry every time I see one. :sad:

peppy85
December 12th, 2004, 12:19 PM
And where do you think pet store puppies come from? They come from mills and disreptuble backyard breeders who don't give a damn who gets their puppies as long as they get the money.

Many people don't realize this as the pet store will never tell you.

Petstores are simply middlemen for the mills.

Anyone who buys a puppy OR kitten at a petstore is directly funding and condoning mills.
now i dont know about any were else but around were i live the pet stores ask as many questions as the humain society,breeders,or rescues.my mom used to train dogs for the handycap and we would go around answering puppy adds no matter what breed mixed or pure and buy them for training for handycap we went to pet stores and they would give us the 3rd degree about wanting to buy 3 or more pupys of any breed same with humain soc.,and rescues so we had clinics were the stores or who ever we bought the dog from could come and see how he/she was doing.i am totally agants mills but that doesnt mean that ALL store puppys are from mills,my mom often would sell a pup or two from her bowers that she bred to the stores,and we arent a mill. :cool:

Lucky Rescue
December 12th, 2004, 12:47 PM
i am totally agants mills but that doesnt mean that ALL store puppys are from mills,my mom often would sell a pup or two from her bowers that she bred to the stores,and we arent a mill.

I said they come from mills AND backyard breeders.

Sorry, but any reputable breeder has a waiting list of approved homes for any litters, and would NEVER put their puppies in a pet store and not know where they going. Ever.

And if your mom is selling pups to pet stores, and they come from dogs who are not championed and health tested, then she is a backyard breeder.

carey
December 14th, 2004, 03:18 AM
And if your mom is selling pups to pet stores, and they come from dogs who are not championed and health tested, then she is a backyard breeder.

Exactly! That is THE message that needs to get out..

OwndbyaSibe
December 14th, 2004, 02:25 PM
I purchased a puppymill Pomeranian puppy 14 years ago knowing it's circustances (it had been taken by a reputable breeder to be rehomed). He was apparently registered, but that didn't matter. He did not conform to the standard of the breed, he was too big, his nose too long etc, but to me he was beautiful. Clearly he was the product of poor breeding, but that didn't matter I felt sorry for him. Dispite the best care and all of the love that I gave that little angel he suffered most of his life with luxating petalla, collapsing trachea, digestive problems, etc. After he was about 6 years old, he was so arthritic it was difficult for him to get around. Even though we did everything we could to keep him comfortable and happy....What was his quality of life??? We finally PTS when he was 13, he did quite well considering all of the health problems he had. I miss him everyday.
I think of all of the suffering he went through and it kills me to know that that any person with a heart would create life to have it endure what my little angel did, and I know there are many animals that have to endure worse. IMO irresponsible breeding is no better than animal abuse.

Sorry for the rant, I was just looking in the local paper to find 2 full pages of adds for Christmas Puppys, some adds having as many as 18 puppys of 3 different 'fad breeds' and broke my heart to know that lots will suffer as my dog did, many will be in a shelter in January and only a few will find a loving, forever home. :sad:

Thanks for listening.

jjgeonerd
December 14th, 2004, 02:39 PM
Pet stores should team up with the local humane societies. The PetsMart in Seattle (at least the one that I have been to) only has animals from the humane society, and they're only there for exposure. I'm pretty sure the actual adoption is done through the humane society, with all of the questions that go with it, since the dogs are only there at certain times when a humane society rep. is there. Seems like a good system to me. :thumbs up

Schwinn
December 14th, 2004, 02:45 PM
Pet stores should team up with the local humane societies. The PetsMart in Seattle (at least the one that I have been to) only has animals from the humane society, and they're only there for exposure. I'm pretty sure the actual adoption is done through the humane society, with all of the questions that go with it, since the dogs are only there at certain times when a humane society rep. is there. Seems like a good system to me. :thumbs up

PetSmarts here do the same thing. It's a great idea. More should do it.

GsdDiamond
December 14th, 2004, 02:54 PM
It is very sad indeed the fate that a lot of the Christmas presents will suffer.

A lot of people don't understand that all baby animals:
chew (everything), cry (sometimes for no reason), pee (whenever it suits them), poop (sometimes very runny on your nice new carpet), eat (a lot at times, or are very fussy and don't eat a morsel), demand your attention (all the time), need to be played with (all their waking moments), need to be walked (evey day rain or shine), and many more things I can't think of at the moment.

BYBs and Mills don't give a rat's butt what happens to the animals after they get their cash. It's all just money. Your poor Pom puppy was a prime example of what BYBs can do to a dog. Poor thing. In a case like his, I don't really consider it "buying" a milled puppy that was rehomed by a reputable breeder. In that case, I'd be brave and say you "rescued" a puppy.

Good on you!

Lucky Rescue
December 14th, 2004, 07:33 PM
Sorry for the rant, I was just looking in the local paper to find 2 full pages of adds for Christmas Puppys, some adds having as many as 18 puppys of 3 different 'fad breeds' and broke my heart to know that lots will suffer as my dog did, many will be in a shelter in January and only a few will find a loving, forever home.

Don't apologize. Maybe people will believe you, since you have "been there, done that."

Sorry for your poor little Pom, but he was very lucky to have ended up with you, instead of in the hands of another greedy and amoral backyard breeder or miller, who would have bred him in spite of his many defects.

mona_b
December 15th, 2004, 08:54 AM
[QUOTE=peppy85 .my mom used to train dogs for the handycap and we would go around answering puppy adds no matter what breed mixed or pure and buy them for training for handycap we went to pet stores
[/QUOTE]

This is NEVER done here.The trainers for service dogs(handicapped,deaf)do NOT go and "buy" puppies from ads in papers.And "never" from pet stores.They don't even get puppies.They go to shelters.And they are not looking for young puppies.They usually look for ones over a year.They re-train them for basic commands(if they don't know them).Then they start the serious ones.Like picking up things,opening and closing the doors,getting the phone,giving the sales person the money pouch,letting a deaf person know when the doorbell is ringing,the phone is ringing.And so on.

susanheb
December 23rd, 2004, 08:36 AM
A new Pet Crazy store around the corner only sells cats from the SPCA as well as birds and reptiles.
Sue



PetSmarts here do the same thing. It's a great idea. More should do it.

meimei
December 23rd, 2004, 10:01 AM
Essentially what is needed is government legislation to force pet stores which sell pets, to only carry animals which are up for adoption that are supplied by recognized humane societies. That would solve the whole problem... period.

I don't know if there are any lobbyists in Canada, but I do know in the USA there a now a couple of states that finally did push this through (I think).

Active committees have to be created, then organized to lobby for this type of legislation.

I For one, would LOVE nothing more than to see all the Hagen stores and Nature Pet Centers finally STOP selling animals. (They are now marketing all their breeds as AKC registered puppies).