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spike collars

Rottimom
November 16th, 2004, 09:44 AM
Hi All
I looked through previous posts to see if this question had already been asked, but didn't find anything. My question is, are spike collars not cruel??? I am talking about the metal ones with the 1 inch spikes all around that dig INTO the dogs neck at slight angles. To me they look horrendous and I have seen 2 people who use them on their large dogs. My first instinct is to fly off the handle :mad: at these people; but I have to admit I am not very educated about them. Am I wrong? Are they not as bad as I think? I would NEVER use one on my boy regardless. Any input would be appreciated. Perhaps I can enlighten these people with some facts (to back up my opinion)
Thanks in advance

raingirl
November 16th, 2004, 09:51 AM
From what I understand, they are called prong collars. They are actually more safe and more humane than choke chains (not that I like those either).

A study done in Germany studied 100 dogs over their entire lives, while 50 used chokes, and 50 used prongs. When the dogs died, autopsys were done to determine the extent of injury over the lifetime of the dog.

46 of the dogs with chokes had damage to their neck, trachea and back.
1 of the dogs with prongs had damage to their neck only.

I thought people were insane when I saw someone using one, then I did a google search and learned the facts. They really don't appear to be that bad.

LavenderRott
November 16th, 2004, 10:03 AM
They don't dig into the dog's neck. When used properly, they administer a slight pinch - not painful, just uncomfortable.

Both of my dogs have 3 collars. They wear a flat collar around the house and when they go outside to take care of business. They wear a prong collar when they go for a walk or with me to the pet store. The metal choker is left hanging on the hook on the sunroom wall.

As you can see from my signature, I have a rottweiler and a beagle mix. While my rottie can go anywhere and behave with a flat collar on, Missy MUST have her prong on before she leaves the car when we go places. Too many yummy smells and she pulls all over the place.

Last summer, Missy went to the feed store with my mom and I. Since we had not planned to take her (she slid out the door between my mom and I and jumped into the van) the only collar she had was her flat collar. She spent the whole time in the feed store pulling, which means she also spent it coughing and vomiting. She would have done the same with a choker on. With her prong collar on, she behaves wonderfully and there is no pulling, coughing, or vomiting. Any corrections given are much lighter then is needed with a choker, which is ignored anyway.

Schwinn
November 16th, 2004, 10:13 AM
We were actually told to use one. It was referred to us as a "pinch" collar. With breeds with strong neck muscles, when they pull, it doesn't deter them from pulling, and they can crush thier own trachea. With a pinch collar, if they pull too tight, it pinches the skin, and they stop pulling. If it fits properly, it actually hangs harmlessly around the neck. With Daisy, I can fit my fingers in between her neck and the prongs. As a matter of fact, if I hold it up, she pushes her face through it trying to get it on (she knows it's walk time!) We had issues with it at first as well, but we were assured by several experts that it is, in fact, very humane, as long as you aren't a jerk like I was once and pull on it hard when the dog gets excited. The prongs themselves are actually not sharp, and the amount of pressure you would have to apply to pierce the skin (I'm assuming this is your fear, as this is what mine was) would be quite phenominal. We did have a choke collar for walking, and we found her pulling so hard, she was doing just that--choking. Same with her cotton collar which she usually wears. If I use that to take her to get the mail, she'll sometimes pull so hard she starts hacking.

With the pinch collar, as soon as it starts to tighten, the dog feels it, and stops pulling. Once they are used to it, they almost never feel discomfort, because they can feel the fingers on thier neck. It actually has to tighten quite a bit to actually "pinch". I'm sure when I'm rough housing with her, I'm rougher on her skin than the collar (and trust me, she's enjoying it, and I usually wind up getting hurt. That's when my wife says, "Dumbass". When I ask her who, she just shakes her head and says, "Both of you!")

GsdDiamond
November 16th, 2004, 10:15 AM
I agree with raingirl and LavenderRott. Prong collars, when used correctly, are a very effective teaching tool. After a few corrections, the dog learns that the prong collar is not the most pleasant thing in the world, and starts to behave without much correction.

Choker chains do just that...choke. Flat collars have no real way of relaying a proper correction. A dog with long hair should use the one with the 1" spikes, while a dog with short hair should use a variation of it....one made of plastic with little nubs instead of long prongs.

The collar is only to be left on when you require full control of an uncontrolable dog. The minute I started using a prong collar was the time when Diamond stopped pulling on her leash to the point of choking herself. A proper lesson, by my obedience instructor, showed me how to properly use it. A very effective teaching tool, when used properly. :thumbs up

mastifflover
November 16th, 2004, 11:02 AM
Like everyone here I thought how cruel. But that is not the truth in fact this collar is more effective than any other training tool. Because I found it to be the quickest and most effective with no harm to the dog. I suggest if you are going to use one, that you get advise from someone who knows how to use it the most effectively with no harm to your dog. I used this on my Neo and it was like walking a normal dog instead of me being dragged down the street if there was a cat, squirrel, or small animal around. Boo had a high prey drive and this collar helped to keep my arms attached to my body.

Rottimom
November 16th, 2004, 12:09 PM
Wow that is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for all the input. i suppose you shouldn't judge a book by its cover (they just look SOOO menacing) I'm glad I asked. I don't like when people spout off about something they know little to nothing about, and I didn't want to be one of those people. :( I also suppose I should never say never. I currently use a halti when I try to walk my rottiXshep. He is 100lb and all muscle. The halti works wonders... when it stays on! There is no jerking involved; thats what I like. He corrects himself with a gentle nose pull. The problem is, the clever boy gets it off too easily. I have tried the choker in the past (bad mommy)and he would pull and choke and wheeze but he would just keep on truckin'. It makes sense to me that that is more cruel and could do more damage. Maybe I will look further into this prong thing. For walks only. Maybe. :confused:

jjgeonerd
November 16th, 2004, 12:32 PM
I agree that prong collars are better than chokers; however, a flat collar, standard leash, and training is all that should be needed. Special collars, halties, etc. just mask the problem. With consistent training a dog can be taught not to pull on the leash VERY quickly.

I'm not trying to offend anyone...just my opinion. :thumbs up

Schwinn
November 16th, 2004, 12:37 PM
Next time you see someone with a dog with one, ask them about it, and take a good look at it. It will make you feel much more comfortable. We've used one for about 3 years, and only once has Daisy every yelped (that was my fault...we'll leave it at that), so you can see it doesn't actually hurt her. And she loves to pull! When I get home at night from work after working overtime, I usually take her to get the mail, which is just around the corner. Because I go to bed within an hour and a half of getting home, I don't have time to go for a long walk (my wife tries to take her most times). So I'll do a sprint to the mail box and back, which Daisy loves. She'll have her pinch collar on, and even with both of us running, it doesn't seem to bother her. When she starts running faster than me, she'll pull a little, but usually just slow down. Once you see it in use, you'll learn that they're quite safe, and you'll really like it, because it makes walking you dog more enjoyable for both of you.

The only complaint I have, and it isn't about the collar, is I've seen a couple of idiots who are for the ban talk about pitbull owners trying to make thier dog look tough by putting these big chain collars with spikes on them. But that's another story...

tenderfoot
November 16th, 2004, 12:43 PM
I can' resist. We only use flat wide collars in our training and have never needed anything else in 30 years - and we have worked the gammit of all dogs. A flat wide collar disperses the energy and causes less discomfort if used correctly. If I were working with a physically impaired person with an out of control large breed I might consider something to help, but we have worked with all sorts of physically challenged people and still not needed it. I don't think it should be about which device controls the dog better but how to communicate more effectively.
Because we don't use devices I don't have anecdotal evidence to support anything in that direction. I just know I don't want my dog to behave to avoid a force or pain. I want him to cooperate out of respect. We start by teaching a dog never to pull in the first place - then it's not an issue. The very first drill we do is called the 'no pulling' drill. Even dogs who arrive here in halters, pinch collars or chokes (sometimes all 3) - we remove all of the devices and go back to the flat wide collar - and we see changes right away.
One problem is that people teach dogs to pull - we don't mean to but we do. From the very start the puppy pulls us to 16 different spots to decide where to pee. They pull us here and there. This is the beginning of the end - they will pull their human everywhere from then on. They think they are supposed to pull the human to get where they want to go . Teach them not to pull and they learn quickly to pay attention to where the leader is and respect that.
People also tend to keep a tight leash - we must think it gives us more control - yet the dogs still yank us off our feet. A loose leash gets the dog to make choices and choose good manners according to the persons wishes. Watch your dog on the leash. Do this little test - start inside and put the leash on and keep it loose, if there are no distractions he should stand there with a loose leash, start to tighen up on the leash and watch him start to lean into it - the beginning of pulling, tighten up a lot and watch him pull against it a lot. It is natural for a dog to resist - pull or push against pressure.
We teach a dog to give to pressure not fight it. A person couldn't fight a horse on a lead if it came down to strength - so we must teach the horse to give to the pressure of the lead and cooperate. You see big men being dragged down the walk by a Maltese - so it's really not even about strength.
I recieved a call from Chicago last week from a woman who was hysterical about a training class she attended. The instructor insisted that all of the dogs wear pinch collars, the people had gloves on to protect their hands and one Boston Terrier pup left the class with a bleeding neck. I was beyond insensed that such treatment could go on and not be reported to the authorities. So it leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth knowing these things still occur when there are so many better choices.
All things in balance - if the device works for you and the dog is not being hurt then go for it. But would you still have control of your dog if the device broke? Have you taken every advantage in teaching good manners or have you chosen the quick fix?
To people who use devices - please don't take offense at my words, I am just trying to offer another piece to the puzzle.

mastifflover
November 16th, 2004, 12:44 PM
No offence taken but if you have a 180 pound dog who has a high prey drive a Halti would never work I also find they do not work for heavily jowled dogs they only hurt them. But not everything works for every breed. I also feel that when you are dealing with rescues you have not had the chance to train from puppyhood. So I feel each dog is different and I think you have to adjust your methods for each dog.

GsdDiamond
November 16th, 2004, 12:49 PM
I also don't take offense, but my 70 pound 9 month old puppy has a VERY strong neck and I'm tired of my hands hurting from trying to hold her back. Her prey drive is also unbelievably strong, and if she sees something she wants to go look at, we're going. In a case like this, they know they're not supposed to pull, but when they decide to do it, stopping them can be a bit of a chore, and a pain to the person trying to hold them back.
The prong collar lets her know that I'm in control, not her.
I also tried flat collars, haltis, harness, but only the prong did the job.
This is a case of use whatever works. Different dogs call for different training methods. I'd love to not have to use the prong, but it works.

As far as being able to control her off leash, say if the prong collar broke...you betcha she'll listen. The only place she doesn't listen is in her own back yard, or if she's in the middle of playing while off leash. Part of the walking lessons include emergency down, recall to heel, and other vital lessons. I know how to call my dog so that she comes. If that means running away from her, so be it. She'll follow because she knows I'm the alpha and it MUST be good where I'm going.

Again, no offense taken. But not everyone can follow the training regime you have, as we're not all obedience trainers. I'm a computer geek with a smart dog, not someone with a background in animal behaviour. I'm flying by the seat of my pants, and I do a LOT of reading on training. My puppy obedience trainer only suggested prong collars for those people who were unable to control their dogs. Does she wear a prong all the time? No. Not every waking moment is a training session. Only walks get the prong.

I hope I haven't offended you, or anyone else here.

tenderfoot
November 16th, 2004, 01:06 PM
I respect your choices.
I would love a chance to show you how we work and see what you thought. We have worked with so many adult rescue dogs that you would never think could be reached and we see great changes in the first sesson.
I am not trying to say we are the only way or the best way, but I think we offer a sound method of teaching that changes the dog from the inside instead of controlling from the outside.
I am I being too obnoxious? Don't answer that! :o

mastifflover
November 16th, 2004, 01:11 PM
Unfortunately Boo is no longer with us he is at rainbow bridge but I would have gladly brought him by I am always open to new suggestions. Fortunately I have the best Mastiff in the world now who never pulls on a leash or lunges at small unsuspecting creatures. Buddy is also a rescue so you never know what is awaiting you with a rescue but always worth the effort.

GsdDiamond
November 16th, 2004, 01:16 PM
I respect your choices.
I would love a chance to show you how we work and see what you thought.

Thank you. I respect your choices too.

I do wish I could attend one of your training sessions, but I have no clue where you live. I highly doubt that you could come and see me in Winnipeg...could you??? :o :o ;)

Never mind. I see that you were actually talking to Mastifflover, not me. I'll move along now. :o

tenderfoot
November 16th, 2004, 01:16 PM
Aren't Mastiffs the best? I have one on my wish list, but so far we are limited to 5 dogs and just can't add another right now.
And thank you for taking on a rescue - we all appreciate you for that.

tenderfoot
November 16th, 2004, 01:21 PM
Actually I was addressing both of you.
I would love to come and visit everyone on this site. I asked Marko to arrange a Pets.ca Expo so we could all meet, but I forget how big Canada is. We are in Colorado and people do travel from all over to visit us, but until then we have other ways of reaching people (see tenderfoottraining.com) with our methods.
Thanks for asking.

mastifflover
November 16th, 2004, 01:23 PM
They are the best and you really need to be owned by one.

melanie
November 16th, 2004, 03:47 PM
well i use a choke collar, i think i must be one of a dying breed there. when we went to dog school 8 nearly 9 yrs ago choke chain was the only method taught, jsut like prong it was hailed as the next great lead. years later and ppl think i am cruel for using it, i certainly dont and it is very effective in dog fights (not only for control but when of leash it means you have something noisy to throuw in the fight it works well for me). my girl will not allow anything else, she is used to the sound and fit of the choke chain, on her choke she is the perfect angel, she walks like a lady and does not pull or anything. but if i change that chain and i have tried before, she goes nuts and tries to rip my arms out pulling, she is jsut rude without her choke, it is part of her routine and anything else just does not gel with this girl. but to use a choke correctly takes training and time, most ppl dont do this so chokes get a bad rap.

as a choke chain user i do see prongs as cruel, i know it is supposed to imitate the mother dog but if that is so do ppl follow it through by biting the dog when naughty, the dog lives with humans so i see no point in immitating another dog. i dont like the idea of the pinch, if used correctly a choke should not harm the dog, just restrain it, so i have always not liked prong, along with shock collars and the lot. i just dont think inflicting any form of pain is appropriate, weather a human decides that pain is right or not.

ppl using it is it used in your dog schools??, is it the reccomended method?? has any one found it used in their school? just wondering

Schwinn
November 16th, 2004, 05:34 PM
well i use a choke collar, i think i must be one of a dying breed there. when we went to dog school 8 nearly 9 yrs ago choke chain was the only method taught, jsut like prong it was hailed as the next great lead. years later and ppl think i am cruel for using it, i certainly dont and it is very effective in dog fights (not only for control but when of leash it means you have something noisy to throuw in the fight it works well for me). my girl will not allow anything else, she is used to the sound and fit of the choke chain, on her choke she is the perfect angel, she walks like a lady and does not pull or anything. but if i change that chain and i have tried before, she goes nuts and tries to rip my arms out pulling, she is jsut rude without her choke, it is part of her routine and anything else just does not gel with this girl. but to use a choke correctly takes training and time, most ppl dont do this so chokes get a bad rap.

as a choke chain user i do see prongs as cruel, i know it is supposed to imitate the mother dog but if that is so do ppl follow it through by biting the dog when naughty, the dog lives with humans so i see no point in immitating another dog. i dont like the idea of the pinch, if used correctly a choke should not harm the dog, just restrain it, so i have always not liked prong, along with shock collars and the lot. i just dont think inflicting any form of pain is appropriate, weather a human decides that pain is right or not.

ppl using it is it used in your dog schools??, is it the reccomended method?? has any one found it used in their school? just wondering

Actually, yes, I have bit my dog...you know, that didn't sound as nuts in my head.

The pinch-collar was recommended to us by a trainer. The way it was explained to us is that if you have a muscular breed, the pinch-collar is the way to go. The choke chain will do more damage, and because of the muscle, the pinch-chain actually doesn't hurt as much. If you have a less muscular breed (like a collie, for example), the choke-chain is actually more comfortable. I know for my self this makes sense. Being a cyclist, I have good muscle tone in my legs, like Daisy's neck. If I try to pinch my leg, it's difficult to get the skin to "pinch", I have to use a lot of pressure. On the other hand, if I try it on a fleshier part, say my stomach, it is very easy to pinch, and it hurts. On the other hand, if I use, say, a belt around my thigh, I don't really notice it unless I tie it very tight. It doesn't take long to hurt. If I tie a belt around my stomach, I can get it fairly tight without a great deal of pain.

Don't know if that makes sense, but I've tried it, and it seems to to me! ;)

mona_b
November 16th, 2004, 06:47 PM
No mel,I'm right there with you.I too am one of the dying breed.. :p ...I too have used it.But when they were pups.None have ever been choked.And after they mastered the "heel" after about 2 weeks,it wasn't needed again.The "choke" if used properly will do the job.A real good collar to use for those who don't like the choke or prong is the Martingale.As for the professional trainers using the prong,I don't know of any at all who use them.And I'm talking about proffessionals...Here in Ontario one of the top ones is McCann.And I can name more.What gets me is when I see pups pulling on a leash.The person at the other end is not correcting the pup.Letting them do this at 3 months is nothing compaired to when pup reaches 80lbs.Then it seems like a problem.

Schwinn
November 16th, 2004, 09:57 PM
No mel,I'm right there with you.I too am one of the dying breed.. :p ...I too have used it.But when they were pups.None have ever been choked.And after they mastered the "heel" after about 2 weeks,it wasn't needed again.The "choke" if used properly will do the job.A real good collar to use for those who don't like the choke or prong is the Martingale.As for the professional trainers using the prong,I don't know of any at all who use them.And I'm talking about proffessionals...Here in Ontario one of the top ones is McCann.And I can name more.What gets me is when I see pups pulling on a leash.The person at the other end is not correcting the pup.Letting them do this at 3 months is nothing compaired to when pup reaches 80lbs.Then it seems like a problem.

As I mentioned, it was a professional who recommended it to us. It was also explained that this collar is only for certain dogs, those with extremly muscular necks. It is not a nice collar for the average dog.

DogueLover
November 25th, 2004, 11:42 PM
I have to say that the only collar angel( Dogue De Bordeaux) wears on walks is her pinch collar. She used to pull me all over, then I found the pinch collar and was taught how to correct her with it on. As was said on here before, I too made the mistake of pulling hard enough once to make her yelp but that was my fault. She is very strong ( she weighs almost 130 lbs!) and she is a complete darling with it on. I think using it correctly is the trick.
She actually likes the collar, maybe because she puts going for a walk and that collar together, but she only wears it on walks.

I have actually put it onto my leg and pulled it, it doesn`t hurt just kinda gets your attention ;) .
Different strokes for different folks I guess. For the most part, she doesn`t wear a collar, she only puts hers on for walks.

Schwinn
November 26th, 2004, 11:44 AM
The same with Daisy. It's funny, as soon as I go near my shoes, she goes looking for the collar and starts nosing it. I hold it up, and I remember trying to put it on her really gentle, and she shoves her had through it if I don't put it on fast enough!

DogueLover
November 26th, 2004, 01:29 PM
The "pinch collar" I have for Angel has the prong part then a choke type chain connecting the prongs. You can add or remove prongs on hers( which is a good thing as I had to purchase 2 in order to get enough to go around that tree truck size neck of hers! When I put hers on I just take apart one set of prongs and put them back together . I just have to use a different set each time so they don`t get loose and not work effectively.
I will see what I have for pics of her with it on, and then maybe we can see if they are the same.

GsdDiamond
November 26th, 2004, 02:44 PM
That's the same kind I use for Diamond. But, when we bought it, we were told to make it small enough that if we want to put it on we have to undo one of the links, not so big as to slip over the head or it won't be effective.

mastifflover
November 26th, 2004, 03:43 PM
That is exactly what the trainer I spoke with told me. Never put it on as you would a choke that is how they get hurt because the collar will slide down instead of sitting high on the neck. I know as Boo got heavier I kept having to expand with more links. I just lent it to a friend who took it out of the bag and asked if it belonged to a horse. I guess you just get so used to them being big you dont even notice it.

GsdDiamond
November 26th, 2004, 03:50 PM
LOL!
I know what you mean! A friend of ours owns a Bull Terrier, and she uses a prong collar too (those are strong little dogs!!!). We showed her Diamond's collar and she looked surprised. Then she showed us Sadie's collar....holy cow....talk about small links! Diamond wouldn't even be able to feel that through her coat.

lilith_rizel
November 28th, 2004, 11:51 AM
We used to have a choker for Cano, and the only time we used it was when we put him outside. He had never pulled the chain tight enough to "choke" himself, until those pesky kids harassed him a few weeks ago. Then he literally choked himself to break his chain! After that, he hasn't seen that choker, and come to think of it, I don't even know where it is. He is now wearing his old black spiked collar, soon going to need a new one, we have it on the last hole right now!!

But from what I have heard, the prong collars are safer.

Schwinn
November 28th, 2004, 05:29 PM
From what I understand prong collars are only safer for certain breeds, those with muscular necks. If they have not got muscular necks, I'm told choker collars are better.

allformydogs
November 30th, 2004, 12:01 PM
I am one of those who does not believe in the prong collar. I am not trying to be insesitive to others and their training methods, I just don't feel that prong collars are a long term fix of a problem.When conditioning an appropriate behavior punishment is rarely the fastest way to the means. I agree that more time and consistent praise when an appropriate behavior occurs will be the best long term solution. Yes, I do have experience with large dogs who are able to pull me about. My Saint Bernard is 200 lbs, and more than capable of first pulling me off my feet, and then secondly drag me about with ease. Never has he worn a prong collar, and when we are in a new situation that his focus may be diverted from me I will use a gentle leader (much better than the Halti). Even a boy as big as mine can't pull me about with that on. The problem people have with the gentle leader is an incorrect fit. Any veterinarian would be willing to help fit your dog in one of these. Yes, when they are on, they are on tight, but it does not hurt the dog, and these are harmless devices that work without piching your dogs neck for a response. Yes prong collars do can and do work, to each their own. I personally however have never seen anyone misuse a getle leader in anyway, and I definatley have not seen someone put one on their dog to make it look tough!! Well, that's my opinion. :)

Schwinn
November 30th, 2004, 12:28 PM
The problem we had was Daisy was always rubbing her face against our legs trying to get it off. I don't know who it bothered more, her having it on, or us having raw legs. That's when the prong collar was suggested. Now, we find that if we put the prong collar on, she knows it's walk time and doesn't pull, but if we put her cloth collar on (which we use for going to the car, or short trips where she's only on a leash for a few minutes), she pulls and pulls. The prong collar becomes a signal that she is to walk with us. We have tried to walk her with other collars, but she's hyper and will constantly pull, despite corrections and reminders. (She's not a bad dog, she just gets carried away!) We find now we don't even pick it up unless we are taking her, because as soon as she hears it, she is sitting in front of us trying to stick her face in it. We find that she seems happy, and we don't have any real issues with her, so we stuck with it. We also found that with a regular collar, when she wanted out, she got out. I suggested it was because her collar was too loose, but one time she got out, and we could not slip it back over her head. (Between that and getting out of her locked crate, we've nicknamed her "Whodoggi").

mastifflover
November 30th, 2004, 12:47 PM
But prongs are only safe when used properly, and only when training. As soon as we were finished the collar comes off, even when I used to leave Boo off lead at the park the prong collar comes off for his and other dogs safety. My Neo was very strong and muscular and heavier boned. I honesly do not see how a gentle leader is going to be comfortable for a dog with double dewlaps. His face would mushed up and not be able to pant or breathe properly these dogs are much more heavily jowled than a saint or an OEM. If you think a gentle leader would hold one of these guys back from prey you would be mistaken. After speaking with numerous breeders of Neo and Dogues and Cane's they all recommended prong collars. I agree all dogs are different but I am not going to make my dog uncomfortable while trying to train that would make things much more difficult.

Schwinn
November 30th, 2004, 02:37 PM
I personally however have never seen anyone misuse a getle leader in anyway, and I definatley have not seen someone put one on their dog to make it look tough!! Well, that's my opinion. :)

Also, anyone who would put a prong collar on to make him look tough has a WHOLE set of other issues! But that's an entirely different discussion. ;)

lilith_rizel
November 30th, 2004, 02:52 PM
We have tried multiple ways to get Cano to walk properly and nothing has worked so far. Do the prong collars actually work? Where can they be bought? And what is the pricing?

mastifflover
November 30th, 2004, 03:02 PM
They are not expensive and they can be adjusted so you can add or take out links. They do work, I think better than any other types of collars. When Boo was healthy he weighed 185 pounds of muscle and stubborness ok and love. He could without a moments hesitation pull me flying down the street. With the prong one correction and we were walking like a well trained dog no pulling no lunging. They work but you need to have the collar not to loose you should undo it to put it on and it sits high on the neck like a show collar, I would see if there is a trainer in the area that would give you a quick lesson on how to use them properly. You can put it around your leg and tighten it and you will see it does not really hurt it is more of a pinch hence the name pinch collar.

lilith_rizel
November 30th, 2004, 03:10 PM
Can they be found in any pet supply store? I am really thinking of getting Cano one. He's only 65 pounds, but boy can he knock me off my feet if he lunges! Plus after him being able to break his chain, I don't think I would do well walking him without him knowing how to properly walk.

DogueLover
November 30th, 2004, 08:23 PM
I picked my prong collar(s) up at petland. I believe petland also has them. I priced them out and found that petland was the best price. I bought one and it fit for around 3 weeks, then I went searching for just "links" to put into angels collar, I found that buying another collar was cheaper than buying the links seperately. I ended up using 1/2 the links out of the new collar just to get it to fit.

Check it out, and I agree that having someone who would know, ( a trainer or someone else who uses the collar) show you how to use it correctly will be a HUGE benefit for you.

My suggestion to anyone who is getting one of these collars for the first time is to put the collar around your leg and do a "correction". You will know how very little correcting you need with a prong collar. My biggest beef with choke collars was finding one big enough for around that HUGE NOGGIN on my baby :p . She wears the collar only when we go walking, the rest of the time she doesn`t have a collar on at all.

Do any of you watch animal cops on the ANIMAL PLANET channel? Every time I see a dog with an embedded collar I just cringe.

Good luck with the collar, and I am sure if you need help, you can log on here and everyone who uses them will be happy to help :thumbs up

doggy lover
December 1st, 2004, 07:29 PM
Pinch collars scare the crap out of me. My last dog went to puppy classes, and so on. I got really upset one night when the trainer put a pinch collar on a golden retriever. The dog went running for the door and the trainer pulled hard on the collar, I was waiting for the dogs head to pop off. The poor dog started yelping, that was the end of my trust with that trainer. Travis was 120 lb dog and we used a halti and choke chain on him, the halti checks first and if needed the choke checked in. My daughter who weighed half the dogs weight could walk him. On regular collar he pulled until he coughed the same on the plain choke chain, but togeather they worked great. My new pup enjoys being walked on a harness and does not pull, he does a little on a plain collar. As he is walking on his harness if he starts to get ahead I just tell him to walk nice and he looks at me and just slows down. Sometimes I think he is saying well just hurry the hell up lady but he is very good for a 6 month pup.

Kariia
July 5th, 2005, 01:09 PM
Prong collars are good for HUGE dogs. (Neos, Dogues, St Bernards...anything that can pull you over and drag you while running 20 km an hour. Except for Whippets and Greyhounds)

Choke chains are good for medium to large dogs (anything that can pull you over and drag you a couple inches.)

Rottielover
July 5th, 2005, 01:38 PM
I call the prong collar a miricle collar. Harley heels really nice, never pulls ( 9 month rottweiler pup)
But angel my little crazy one. We tried a gentel leader for about 2 weeks until we noticed she started to become very hand shy. Not a good thing. So a trainer suggested the prong collar. She now runs to me when she hears the clinging of that collar, she welcomes it. Not all dogs can handle a gentel leader. depends on their personality.

DogueLover
July 5th, 2005, 02:50 PM
I agree that prong collars can be miracle collars on your dog.
If used correctly you will never hurt your dog and Angel loves hers. She walks along really nicely with it on and will run to me the minute I pick hers up.
The trainer who corrected that golden needs to be reprimanded for that action, those collars can seriously damage your dog if you do that. Obviously this trainer didn`t know that.

Angel wears hers on walks where she has to be on a leash at all times ( town bylaw) but at home she doesn`t wear a collar.
At 9 mos a puppy could pull you around if they wanted to but sounds like you are using the prong collar correctly Rottilover, and the dog doesn`t see it as a torture device, sounds like she sees it in a positive manner. Good for you. :)

Rottielover
July 5th, 2005, 03:52 PM
The puppy ONLY wears a buckle collar, he has aced 3 diff OB classes so far, and we are continuing. Angel, well the pulling was something we could not work with, so we decided to make it easier on both of us....

doggy lover
July 6th, 2005, 09:51 AM
I seen a trainer use a prong collar before and was totaly discusted, she had it on a GR the dog was scaired and ran for a door, the collar caught and the dog was yelping. Needless to say I had no respect for the trainer after that, by the end of my dog Travis's classes her and I had a big arguement. My dog passed the classes and she said I should come back with him for higher training classes and I told her not over my dead body, I really disliked her and her training methods.

tenderfoot
July 6th, 2005, 10:09 AM
You go girl!!!!
I am always so impressed when people have the gumption to tell a trainer just how they feel when they see something out of line. Too many people stay silent and the trainer never hears what he/she should.

Melinda
July 6th, 2005, 10:09 AM
In our obedience class if you showed up with a choke collar of any kind, they took it off and replaced it with a cloth one, if you showed up a second time with it you were tossed out of class and your "refund" was donated to the humane society, if you were observed striking your animal you were warned once, the second time your animal was removed from you , the spca was called and a complaint was lodged against you for cruelty to animals.

dogznfish
July 6th, 2005, 12:10 PM
We do not permit anything other than flat collars in our agility classes for safety reason. Fortunately I haven't seen a dog injure him/herself by catching a collar on equipment and I have no intentions of seeing it happen. Outside of class though, what collars people use is their own preference. However I see more people incorrectly using a pinch or prong collar than people who use them correctly.

I have also asked people to leave class for even swearing at their dogs. There's a difference between calling a dog "Pokey-bum" and calling them "you little *****." I lay out my terms on the very first class to the students and the majority don't seem to have a problem with it.

I prefer my students to tell me what they did and didn't like about class. How am I supposed to improve my classes and as an instructor without feedback??? If I were to be on the shouting end of someone who hated my class I'd be asking myself, what did I do that cause this and how do I prevent and improve on it?

Deanna

tenderfoot
July 6th, 2005, 03:59 PM
Again I am very impressed. The dog world would be sooooooo much better if we had more people like all of you!
Here's my new moniker -
DogznCatznFishnHorseznParrotznLizardznMarsupialz
Wow, to think there was a time when it could have been those plus 10 more! Glad to see we are getting more reasonable in our old age.

babyrocky1
July 6th, 2005, 07:29 PM
I think I have posted this before, but, it has helped me so much with my "pit bull" that I felt I should add my two cents worth here too. I tried the martingale collar, the choke collar, a trainer insisted, she is now longer my trainer, both the gentle leader and the haltie and as much as the prong or pinch collar scared me I was about to go that way when someone suggested a "sporn harness" I think thats what its called. I have one of those leashes with the long handle and the short handle, in combination with the harness his walking properly has increased about 85% He still pulls just before we go into the yard at times but overall this harness is the VERY BEST thing Ive ever had..Rocky pulled even with the leaders and haltis...so much so that he had a calouse around his muzzle :sad: Also because of the constant, tugging I ended up with arthritis in my sI joints :eek: Just thought Id throw that out there if anyones in the same boat. I know that different dogs prefer different collars . This is not just a regualr harness, its kind of like a pullie stystem. When the dog pulls the harness pulls his paws up just the tiniest bit, but its enough to get his attention without hurting him. His muzzle is finally back to its beautiful self now. :) He doesnt mind the harness at all-he hated both hte leaaders and the haltis.