Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Report harrassment of you or your dog @

Akeeter
November 11th, 2004, 01:02 PM
http://www.goodpooch.com/attackreports.htm

Many of the owners who have reported attacks & harrassment are Not Pitty or Staffy owners. Not that physical or verbal assault can ever be justified-Ever! But these nutz don't even know what the object of their anger/fear looks like!

The rubbish has just brought out all the Dog Hating Morons & given them a vigilante license. Inciting 1 group of people to beset & assault another group.
Promotion of Cruelty to animals, & verbal & physical assaults.

I had no idea that an Att. Gen's position was to create this kind of situation?

Schwinn
November 11th, 2004, 01:29 PM
I can't read that site, it makes me too angry! :mad:

I think I'm going to send it to the opposition MPPs and media outlets, however. Anyone else?

Mom_Of_Two_Dogs
November 11th, 2004, 01:43 PM
I'm so tempted to go out and buy some mace in case people physically attack me or my dogs -- but then I remembered that mace is illegal in Ontario :mad:

mastifflover
November 11th, 2004, 01:46 PM
Mace is but so is harrassment and it can be bought with pepper spray mixed in it. Try the army surplus stores because the government is not going to do anything to stop harrassment of dog owners. Well they may when one of their own politicians gets harrassed while out with his dog.

Schwinn
November 11th, 2004, 01:54 PM
I'm so tempted to go out and buy some mace in case people physically attack me or my dogs -- but then I remembered that mace is illegal in Ontario :mad:

Mace is, but bear spray isn't. And carrying it in case of dog attack is legal. Posties carry it, as do mountain bikers and hikers.

Akeeter
November 11th, 2004, 02:15 PM
and the direction of the little arrow on the spray container..(This always get's me with glass cleaner!) ;)

raingirl
November 11th, 2004, 02:32 PM
Mace and pepper spray are illegal in all of Canada. However, it's still pretty easy to get if you know where to look.

I would rather be fined for having it and using it if I was being attacked than to not have it at all

Akeeter
November 12th, 2004, 12:32 PM
Person arrives home to find SPCA on her door step, 'investigating report from previous owner -or something'. He/she owns a crossbred dog that isn't a Pit Bull, & now must prove it isn't!

This is exactly the type of fishing expedition that we are leaving ourselves open to if this legislation passes.
I doubt that the dog owner would even have the right to bring suit against SPCA, or the person who 'reported them'. Since it's all legal to do this.

mastifflover
November 12th, 2004, 12:43 PM
That is such bull why did her dog do something or does her neighbour dislike her or her dog or does she live next to someone who is scared of dogs. The only valid reason is if her dog did something. I was out last night and met a really nice man with his big vicous pit bull who happens to be a cop. Yes a cop who is so disgusted with MB and his band of idiots as he referred to him. He says that the police do not have nearly enough problems with serious crime that they really can't wait to be harrassing responsible owners, for having a dog. He says the amount of nusiance calls that this will bring in will be staggering. He said if you took a poll among police he says that about 85% are against the ban and most feel that it is about ownership. Most cops are pet owners and a fair amout own rotties and pits and GSD and dobies and would never muzzle their dogs. He feels that most cops will not do anything if they feel they are dealing with a responsible owner and the complaints are nusiances. I think we may need to run the petitions through the police stations.

Luvmypit
November 12th, 2004, 12:57 PM
I was reading this site with all the harrassment stories. I hope that you guys if someone throws something at you or threatens your life or your dog you need to call the poilce. You have to. Just to make a point. If someone says Im going to destroy you and your dog then that is uttering death threats. If they throw something at you that is assault. You have to make these people accountable for their actions and let them know what they read doesn't allow them to threaten or hurt us and inturn break a law. I know me, I would dare them to kill me but then I would call the police. I will not allow anyone to threaten me and my dog. We have alot of police on vehicle patrol in my neighbourhood (Melvern) and they wave at me and seem to be ok when I walk my dog.
Please people make sure you call the police. They need to be bogged down with these complaints. And I know Im not letting one person threaten me or hurt my dog and get away with it. No way!
Most people I have accountered have been very nice and have stopped to pet my pooch.
But if they do, they messed with the wrong owner.

Schwinn
November 12th, 2004, 01:57 PM
I was out last night and met a really nice man with his big vicous pit bull who happens to be a cop. Yes a cop who is so disgusted with MB and his band of idiots as he referred to him. He says that the police do not have nearly enough problems with serious crime that they really can't wait to be harrassing responsible owners, for having a dog. He says the amount of nusiance calls that this will bring in will be staggering. He said if you took a poll among police he says that about 85% are against the ban and most feel that it is about ownership. Most cops are pet owners and a fair amout own rotties and pits and GSD and dobies and would never muzzle their dogs. He feels that most cops will not do anything if they feel they are dealing with a responsible owner and the complaints are nusiances. I think we may need to run the petitions through the police stations.

His dogs a cop?? COOOL!! ( :crazy: Sorry, couldn't resist!)

I had a family member suggest I "hide" Daisy before the police come for the "home visit" for my application to the force. When I spoke with my friend who's been helping me get on, he said that was ridiculous, as long as she's friendly, they won't care.

Again, as for the pepper spray and mace, it is illegal, but bear spray is essentially pepper spray with a different lable. That is legal to purchase at most outdoor stores. No need to go through nefarious sources to get it, or go to the states and bring it across.

OdinAndAlan
November 16th, 2004, 09:46 PM
I wonder if there are any legal recourses towards MB... It seems like since his comments and such were the cause of people causing injury, shouldn't he be legally responsible in some way?

babyrocky1
November 16th, 2004, 10:30 PM
Im sure that there must be a law against insiting hatred but it would be really hard to prove Ive been thinking about that one myself
We should really try and keep track of all of these incidents somehow and then see what we can come up with together they are HATE crimes after alland we al know whoes responsible

Schwinn
November 17th, 2004, 08:36 AM
The problem is, the hatred is directed towards the dog. Although it is the owner suffering, it would be argued that the hatred is towards the breed itself, and dogs are not recognized by a court of law as anything more than possesions. (not saying I agree, just stating the way I think it would be interpreted)

OdinAndAlan
November 17th, 2004, 10:19 AM
Perhaps there could be some consideration for the fact that owners are being harassed because of the breed of their dog. Seems to me that it would be something similar to children harassing other children for their clothing. If we don't accept that sort of behaviour in children, then why is the government allowing adults to behave the same way? Then again, we are talking about the same government as the one that introduced this ban...

mastifflover
November 17th, 2004, 10:32 AM
I have emailed Dalton and told him of the abuse we as dog owners are dealing with and that I am personally holding the fiberals responsible and if something should happen to my dog they will be paying my vet bills.Or is something happens to me I will find a way of challenging this insanity in a court of law. Where MB will not be able to lie as he does so frequently. I stated that there loose cannon Michael Bryant is going to be the downfall of their party because if you alienate enough people they are not going to even consider voting for your party. I am guessing by now they have realized how many dog owners there are in this city and that is a lot of votes to loose. Shockingly I have had no response from our upstanding fiberal party.

Schwinn
November 17th, 2004, 10:49 AM
I stated that there loose cannon Michael Bryant is going to be the downfall of their party because if you alienate enough people they are not going to even consider voting for your party. I am guessing by now they have realized how many dog owners there are in this city and that is a lot of votes to loose. Shockingly I have had no response from our upstanding fiberal party.

I have to be honest...I don't think Bryant will be the downfall...more of an anchor, or more weight. Kind of like the coyote holding an anvil. They're already falling, he just makes it more painful. Without the humourous "Ka-wang!" sound effect.

Jake's mom
November 17th, 2004, 10:56 AM
I had sent my MPP a letter about the abuse that my dog and I experianced, and all I got was form letter. It was telling me about how the ban was only going to hurt the bad people and not the responsible owners blah blah. The letter didn't even address the issue I was writing about. I am stopping by the office on my way home from work I am appauled :mad: So who is listening and where are our letters going?

Schwinn
November 17th, 2004, 11:54 AM
A bunch of e-mails were read in the legislature. Several MPPs from both the Conservatives and the NDP said they'd received roughly 800 e-mails. Don't be discouraged, I think they are having a hard time keeping up. But stopping in certainly won't hurt!

mastifflover
November 17th, 2004, 11:57 AM
Please send an email to the following MPP to oppose the Ban. He is apparently undecided and has said he hasnt received any emails on the subject. Lets send him some!


kramal.mpp@liberal.ola.org

ancarett
November 17th, 2004, 01:05 PM
I did and got a very polite email back from one of his assistants who seems to have been quite impressed by the arguments against the legislation made at the London city council meeting the other night.

Schwinn
November 17th, 2004, 01:47 PM
I did and got a very polite email back from one of his assistants who seems to have been quite impressed by the arguments against the legislation made at the London city council meeting the other night.

Wow! That's more than I would expect to hear from a Liberal (meaning I expected them to all tow the party-line). Care to share?

ancarett
November 17th, 2004, 03:41 PM
From Steven Rollason, Constituency Assistant:

would like to thank you for e-mailing us your concerns about the
breed-ban.

At this point, Mr. Ramal is still seeking input, and further information in
regards to this legislation. It is also importnat to note that this
legislation may very well undergo some significant changes as it undergoes
its various reading, and perhaps too when it goes to committee.

In an attempt to become better informed, Mr. Ramal asked me to go to a
public forum regarding breed-bans, held at London's City Hall, under the
auspices of City Council yesterday. He would have liked to have been in
attendance himself, but the Legislature was sitting.

What follows, although rough, are the notes that I was able to glean at this
meeting, and have passed on to him.

I believe it is an honest reflection of the points that were raised at this
meeting. I am certain Mr. Ramal will take both sides of the argument into
consideration before making up his mind in regards to supporting the
end-result legislation.

*****
Breed Bans-Notes from City Hall, Nov. 16, 2004

130 in attendance, at least. Many lined up outside. The event began at 4 P.M, I left at 6 P.M; it was still going strong. I heard 23 speakers. 17/23 speakers were woman. 19 speakers were against the breed ban. 1 was undecided. 3 were for it.

You already know the reasons in favor of the ban. Here are some of the reasons against the ban that I was able to glean from the city hall meeting, plus a lot of other additional info.

To be informed is of the essence, especially when your role, and what is at stake, is fair representation the people.

Representatives from the Ontario Veterinarian Assoc., the SPCA, the London Humane Society, the Canadian Kennel Club, the London Dog Owners Association, the Chair of the London Accessibility Advisory Committee, and reps. from other groups spoke out against breed-bans.

City by-law is not a done deal. I think the likelihood of London enacting a breed-ban is not high.

Thunder Bay just enacted legislation that reinforces liability and responsibility on owners, yesterday. Breed-banning as an option was turned down.

Breed-banning does not deal with the human element which is the primary component in vicious dogs.

There is no objective way to identify non-registered, or mixed breeds. Both comprise the pit bull class.

Dangerous dogs exist in every breed

All dogs, under certain situations will bite.

Dogs, whether pitbulls or not, are deemed part of people’s families. I believe we are under-appreciating the fallout of removing these dogs from the public’s hands. Do we expect dog owners to give up their dogs? I don’t get the impression that it will happen without a big fight.

“Out of 28,000 pitbulls in T.O, there were 12 incidents last year” The emotional weight of parents and children who have been mauled is not to be slighted, but take into account that the press is manipulating and sensationalizing these incidents because right now pit-bulls sell papers.

You can’t neuter a dog, wisely or safely, until it’s at least 4 years old.

Of all attacks, name one, where a dog, as opposed to the owner, was more directly at fault.

Breed-bans can get carried away. Italy banned 92 breeds, including the corgi, and the sheltie.

The Winnipeg stats may have been edited.

If you own something that is savage, and you want it that way, and the gov. takes it out of your hands, do you know what happens? That person’s next dog is not on the list, but is of an even meaner breed.

If a person runs, a dog chases. How do you differentiate between ‘instinct’, ‘play’, ‘menacing?’

Not all bites arise out of overt aggression. Surprise, fear, pain, for example.. “Are we going to set up a court to determine dog guilt, or innocence?”

Provincial legislation will supersede whatever the municipalities already have in place, or are working on. We need to be careful. Are we willingly to overpower Thunder Bay’s legislation?

Identification, and a loose provincial definition of dangerous breeds, means enforcing a breed-ban might be extremely impractical. “Are we going to genetic test these dogs?” “What about a poodle/pitbull cross?”

Enforcement of present dog-laws, usually, is at best lackadaisical. With more stringent guidelines enforcement becomes even more difficult, and increasingly expensive.

“Is the province, during it’s financial crunch, going to pony up some serious coin to see these enhanced regulations enforced?

“Do you think the city of London, facing a potential 10% hike in taxes, is going to have the money to ante up?”

What follows is what the public overwhelmingly was in favor of:

Punish the breed not the deed.
Give an incentive in licensing to owners whose dogs are spayed and neutered.
Enforce existing laws.
Up license fees for offenders substantially.
Harsher financial penalties for irresponsible owners.
2 bites and the animal is put down. You enforce this, and you’ll see compliance in the owners of problem dogs.
Put the onus on the owners.

Breed bans were not deemed a favorable option, neither by the professionals, and public citizens alike, at that forum.

Luvmypit
November 17th, 2004, 03:50 PM
So that was his assistant. Good, So now I hope he has made up his mind.

mastifflover
November 17th, 2004, 03:58 PM
I think that is a positive response and I really think that forum was to our favour.

Schwinn
November 17th, 2004, 04:37 PM
I think that was an awesome response, especially considering that it was a liberal. Also, I think that if the assistant was either favouring the ban, or even possibly on the fence, there would have been a couple of "for" points.

Thanks much, Ancarett!

chico2
November 17th, 2004, 05:09 PM
I think the Liberals might start to put the brakes on,I know for a fact that our animal-lover friends and us,if this ban passes,will never again vote Liberal.
The Liberals this summer,also had 3 thousand Cormorants killed+13.000 raccoons and foxes and now dogs :evil: they'll never again see our vote!

mastifflover
November 17th, 2004, 05:16 PM
Well I guess you missed this little beauty the city was rounding up feral and stray cats in a certain parks and recreation area and being euthanized by the city. Well I wrote our mayor and gave him a piece of my mind (not too big a piece). This is the response I got regarding the cats.


City staff have informed us that the feral cats in question were creating a Health & Safety issue at one of our works sites. The cats were humanely trapped and relocated. The kittens were taken to the Humane Society for possible adoption.
The City of Toronto has subsequently developed a protocol for feral cats whereby they will be trapped and become the responsibility of the Humane Society in cooperation with the City's Animal Services section.
We trust this will alleviate your concerns.
Once again, thank you for contacting Mayor Miller. We appreciate hearing from you.

chico2
November 18th, 2004, 08:58 AM
Mastifflover,yes,I did,never heard of it :sad:
The Liberal are obviously no animal-lovers,The PC party calling them "kitten-eaters"was not far from the truth :evil:
I hated Harris,Eves and the PC-party and was happy to see them go and I guess I still am,but I am thouroughly disgusted with the Liberal killers...
Nothing good has come from them,they are simply evil..

Loki
November 18th, 2004, 10:47 PM
I think that some of the Liberal MPPs just assume that the majority supports the ban. My mother ( Yes, I'll admit it. I told my mommy on Michael Bryant) called her Mpp to tell him she is against the ban. She said " I want to talk to you about this pit bull ban."
Without even waiting to hear my mother's position, the seceratary replied " Oh don't worry, we fully support the bill." Let's just say that the seceratary won't make that mistake again, after hearing my mother's reaction.


The more calls and emails that these clowns get, they'll eventually figure out that they don't have the majority support that Bryant claims.

Schwinn
November 19th, 2004, 10:55 AM
I think that some of the Liberal MPPs just assume that the majority supports the ban. My mother ( Yes, I'll admit it. I told my mommy on Michael Bryant) called her Mpp to tell him she is against the ban. She said " I want to talk to you about this pit bull ban."
Without even waiting to hear my mother's position, the seceratary replied " Oh don't worry, we fully support the bill." Let's just say that the seceratary won't make that mistake again, after hearing my mother's reaction.


The more calls and emails that these clowns get, they'll eventually figure out that they don't have the majority support that Bryant claims.


Who is her MPP?

Akeeter
November 19th, 2004, 11:06 AM
LOL! , don't even get me started on That one!)



Perhaps there could be some consideration for the fact that owners are being harassed because of the breed of their dog. Seems to me that it would be something similar to children harassing other children for their clothing. If we don't accept that sort of behaviour in children, then why is the government allowing adults to behave the same way? Then again, we are talking about the same government as the one that introduced this ban...

Many of the dogs & owners that have been physically or verbally assaulted are not Pit Bulls/owners. (The dogs that have been the most severely injured,
(tail cut off & eye smashed out of it's socket) are German Shepherds in Their Own Back Yard!

It would be fairly hard to prove that this relates directly to the Gov. (unless some of the clueless idiots were caught & admitted that Gov. policy had an influence on their activity.)

mastifflover
November 19th, 2004, 11:36 AM
But amazingly I have not recieved one email from any of the 8 people I emailed regarding harrassment. I sent another yesterday to my buddy dalton and said that I think it is time to muzzle MB because he is creating that mob mentality in non dog owners and I am sick of being harrassed and do not feel safe walking my dog. Personally I don't think that people have a right to swear at me or yell that my dog should be killed or make threating gestures to me when I take my leashed non aggressive dog for a walk.

Luvmypit
November 19th, 2004, 02:05 PM
Oh god guys look at what on this site now, click on the link on the first post of this thread. poor pitty

Loki
November 19th, 2004, 06:49 PM
Who is her MPP?

Gerrard Kennedy.
Parkdale/high park riding.

Schwinn
November 19th, 2004, 09:29 PM
Figured it was a liberal. Tell her thanks from Daisy and I!

Loki
November 19th, 2004, 09:36 PM
Figured it was a liberal. Tell her thanks from Daisy and I!
No problem.
It actually suprised me, how upset she got.
Apparently, she told him " I'm not a dog-owner, and even I can see right through Bryant. Grow a spine and stop being Bryant's puppet. If you support this ban, then I don't support you."